Good news - Scrapping Permits !!

Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 10:29
ThreadID: 37681 Views:3854 Replies:15 FollowUps:15
This Thread has been Archived
Push to end Aboriginal permit system
September 13, 2006

ABORIGINAL communities would lose the right to prevent outsiders from coming onto their land in a new shake-up of land rights proposed by the Howard Government.

Indigenous Minister Mal Brough yesterday declared his intent to abolish the permit system that regulates access to many remote indigenous communities.

Citing a case before the Darwin courts involving the alleged repeated rape of a 12-year-old boy in the Arnhem Land community of Maningrida, Mr Brough said axing permits would enable the "full glare" of publicity and public pressure for an end to such abuse.

"It is time the permit system be removed," he told Parliament.

The comments, which prompted Northern Territory Labor MP Warren Snowdon to accuse Mr Brough of being a "dog whistler", took the powerful Aboriginal land councils in the NT by surprise.

Northern Land Council chief executive Norman Fry suggested the minister had been "seriously misled" on the issue. He pointed to remarks in Parliament last month by Coalition senator Nigel Scullion, who said the media had good access without changes to legislation.

But Darwin-based Liberal MP David Tollner said it was not right that almost every Australian had to have a permit to visit these lands.

"We need to get rid of the permit system and normal laws of trespass should apply," he said. "Otherwise it's censorship to stop the media going there if you think they are investigating a difficult issue. There are always heinous crimes that go unreported simply because people don't have access."

NT Chief Minister Clare Martin said her Government supported the permit system, and invited Mr Brough to talk to Aboriginal communities to hear why it was important to them.

Labor's indigenous affairs spokesman Chris Evans accused the minister of trying to politicise issues of violence and assault, saying police already had access to such communities. Greens indigenous spokeswoman Rachel Siewert said it was a "simplistic, sensationalist response".

But National Indigenous Council chairwoman Sue Gordon said Mr Brough had good reason for his proposed changes in the NT.

"However, I think there will need to be lengthy consultation with communities in the other states as I am aware of concerns by Aboriginal people regarding exploitation of their people through open access to their communities," she said.

Sharon Payne, the chief executive of the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency, said the plan to end permits was a "disgrace" designed to violate indigenous Australians' human rights. "Aboriginal people are not public property — they are private citizens in a country that values home ownership," she said.

"If you go onto a cattle property in the NT, you have to get the owner's permission. This is the same principle on Aboriginal land."

Ms Payne said axing permits to stop abuse in indigenous communities would be akin to raiding every home in Australia for child porn.

"This is a case of Aboriginal until proven innocent," she said. "The Northern Territory Land Rights Act was one piece of legislation that said you have the same rights as every other citizen and to downgrade it is a disgrace."
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 10:42

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 10:42
Its just Grandstanding

Richard
AnswerID: 194303

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 10:53

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 10:53
I know, but we can live in hope1
0
FollowupID: 452206

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 20:45

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 20:45
Richard:
You usually make these "one line" replies to this sort of subject - little better than "Grandstanding" I would suggest - I would be more interested to read a reasoned argument as to _why_ such an iniquitous system should be retained?

Mike Harding

PS. How the "you know what" going? :)
0
FollowupID: 452367

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:55

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:55
Mike
Going good still dry.

My written skills are not good

I've always found it better to speak LOL.

By what Truckster posted

Minster is only talking freedom of the press not the people, I'm one of those lefty's people speak about, so it's hard for me to comment.

I will think about it though

Richard
0
FollowupID: 452384

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 11:21

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 11:21
Need to pay for a permit to drive on a road we paid to have built and pay to have maintained. Lets have a white town and require others to get a permit and pa to drive to the shops etc - now that would go down well! I could be branded a racist, but I have met very few people who are not - its just the definition and degree of racism that seems to be a very grey area. The sooner someone in power bites the bullet, cops some flak, but levels the playingfield so we are all equal aussies the better.

Is Mal Brough the same bloke who went out to check out Port Keats featured on the ABC a while back. He was ex army and it showed - he didn't seem to take much cr@p and showed no intimidation. The attitude and reaction of the locals was quite interesting, especially when he basically told them to get off their but and clean the joint up a bit before they'd get any funding for houses. They wen't pretty quiet, but had plenty to say after he left. Wanted welfare and funding before they'd do anything. Gee, that has got such good results in the past.

I'll watch this development with interest - maybe it is granstanding, maybe someone is trying to sort the problems out.

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 194307

Follow Up By: Peter - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 11:57

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 11:57
Sorry but I agree with scrapping the permits. As stated why do I need a permit to travel on what is virtually a public road. I don't want access to any persons private property and that should be respected within all communities. As stated, should I as a white person, request a non white person to obtain a permit before driving along my street I would immediately be branded a racist and probably locked up. How can we ever expect to have one Australia when there are 2 distinct rules?
Peter
0
FollowupID: 452222

Reply By: 3.0turbob - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 12:27

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 12:27
O.K. ........ but what about this part..............

"We need to get rid of the permit system and normal laws of trespass should apply," he said.

and what's a "dog whistler"?
AnswerID: 194318

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:10

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:10
"and what's a "dog whistler"? "

I was wondering that too!
0
FollowupID: 452243

Reply By: Hairy - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 12:53

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 12:53
I think its really simple!!
If its private land and you need a permit to enter, take away police stations, petrol stations, housing, schools, power stations, government funded bores etc etc!
If its a town, well you dont need a permit!
AnswerID: 194321

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:54

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:54
Any road joining a town to another would therefore require no permit.

0
FollowupID: 452239

Reply By: Member - Bill F (VIC) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:05

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:05
Sharon Payne said. "The Northern Territory Land Rights Act was one piece of legislation that said you have the same rights as every other citizen and to downgrade it is a disgrace."

They are not the same rights that you and me have as ordinary citizens!!!!

Bill F
AnswerID: 194326

Reply By: Moose - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:19

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:19
I will not be holding my breath waiting for this to happen. Hope it does because it (the permit system) is effectively racism towards us "non indigenous" Australians. But it's a political hot potato which I doubt the Government will have the guts to follow through on.
AnswerID: 194327

Reply By: Footloose - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:30

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 13:30
I wrote a long thoughtful piece which basically said the concept has a lot of merit but more input is needed from the community, Govt and those affected.
I mentioned the politics of permits but didn't go there.
Whist I thought there were going to be some good effects on some communities, I wasn't in a position to judge whether it should be a selective process.

Personally I believe in one nation, not a white one and a black one.
I concluded by saying that the fact that such a suggestion could be openly discussed here, and in the wider community, has got to be a good sign.

Then I tried to post it and for some reason I wasn't logged on. Lost the lot. (oi you in the back row ! Stop clapping !!) Doh!

AnswerID: 194329

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:42

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:42
hahahahahahaha don't worry Footy. Just another senior's moment LOLOL
0
FollowupID: 452257

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 20:53

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 20:53
Used to write white papers did you? Just no lead in your pencil F'loosie.
0
FollowupID: 452369

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:42

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:42
John, no. I was more often than not on the wrong end of white papers. I used to do a lot of things a long time ago. But this particular topic is one that I have an enduring interest in.
As for no lead in my pencil, I'd have to search to find it first. Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time I'd been asked to sharpen my pencil (and until I found out what that meant I thought *ouch*).
0
FollowupID: 452383

Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:38

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:38
If they took away the permit system everyone would be allowed to spend the weekend in Port Keats and have their car trashed . Sounds pretty inviting to me .
Willie .
AnswerID: 194342

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:47

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:47
Sheelberitemate
0
FollowupID: 452259

Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:19

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:19
We are looking into a fishing trip to a few inlets in that general area. We will be going by boat from Whyndham, the Keep river, or somewhere in between, 'cause if we left the car parked somewhere over that way I'm sure we'd be comeing back by boat!

Just from maps and Google earth, there looks to be some great country in that general area, but you just don't go there. The authorities need to get the trouble makers out - for good. they don't deserve to be there.

The boat will have a lot of fuel in it - 130 odd k's from Cape Dommett to where I want to check out......one day.......wish I had a bigger boat, although a couple of mates have a 27 footer with an aircon....

Cheers Andrew
0
FollowupID: 452288

Reply By: equinox - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:53

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 14:53
It would be nice.

The first place I would visit would be the Rawlinson Range and Mount Destruction.

Then Skirmish Hill
Then Gosses Tree
Maybe Lake McKay

I could make quite a big list actually.

I can't see it happening soon though.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 194345

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:49

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:49
Just make sure to put your fires out and don't leave any rubbish, cause half the forum would be hot on your tail :))
0
FollowupID: 452261

Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:13

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:13
Equinox ,
I would be there in the Rawlinson Ranges too - going to all the spots Giles camped and talked about .
Cheers ,
Willie .
0
FollowupID: 452285

Follow Up By: Rick (S.A.) - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:06

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:06
Equinox, great notion, a list like that.

Let's continue that theme.

I suggest a max of ten locations................
ten lines.....................
and on each line a short reason why.

Here goes:

1. Gregory National Park,NT, to experience rough, remote, historic savannah lands.
2. Booroolola, NT,so I can see where the dreamers and escapees lived & to drink bush champagne with Roger Jose's ghost. Ooops, over one line . Sorry.
3. Kallakoopah Creek, SA, near Lake Eyre. Remote beauty, seldom visited.
4. Lawn Hill , Qld, for the gorges, the swims, the scenery & the fossils.
5. W28631, Qld, to the tip - 'cos I wanna cross it off the list.
6. The Pilbarra (again) - unique beauty and colours.
7. Musgrave Ranges, SA. Effectively locked up for years, a fertile region of supposed charm & vistas.
8. Esperance, WA, and east along the coast to Twilight Cove for an unspoilt fishin' & campin' holiday.
9. Longreach, Winton, Hughenden, Qld, - partly to see the Stockman's Hall of Fame.
10. Goyder's Pillars NT. The northern vestiges of Simpson desert & to stay at Lindsay Bookies camp.

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 452374

Reply By: kimprado - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:11

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 15:11
Truckster,

I wouldn't get too excited about this if I was you.

Regards

Kim
AnswerID: 194349

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:28

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 17:28
I hope that at last someone has the ba..s to get rid of this stupid system that makes Aus 2 peoples insted of one.
But then again we have guttless polies.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 194374

Reply By: kimprado - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:27

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:27
Guys

It won't happen the way you think it will. the Blacks will retain their place as always.

Apart from (uninforceable) booze restriction, I've never had a problem driving into Aboriginal communities unannounced.

In fact, some of the old men and women I've met are far more engaging than the DH's I have to put up with on the East Coast.

It should also be understood, that communities engaged in employment are totally different than those that aren't. Argyll Mines is a typical example, so to is Burke Town and many others.

Getting rid of permits is probably a good idea. However, don't think for one minute this is going to change anything.

There is a lot of ill feeling in Outback communities between blacks and whites, and for good reason on both sides in many cases.

Therefore, can I ask you to engage these people rather than cringe like most tourist do. You'll be amazed at what you learn.

Regards

Kim

This stemps from decisions going back over many years.

AnswerID: 194430

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 at 09:59

Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 at 09:59
The Blacks???? Excuse me.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 452934

Reply By: richopesto - Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:40

Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 at 21:40
The pemit system was initially designed in a symbolic recognition of land ownership and control.
It's purpose has since been politically hijacked to be used as a tool to 'protect' indigenous folk from us white rabble making opinion.
As noted here earlier, imagine if you drive into town, see the dusty, unkempt streets and piles of empty tinnies just outside the town, have your petrol stolen and the beer taken from your eski.(hypothetical only!)
You drive home and tell everyone about the dirty, criminal town you went to, thus perpetuating the unfortunate semi-truth of a FEW of the remote indigenous populations.
There are significant issues to be dealt with in a number of communities, but pulling funding and having every Jo Blo wanting to drive through for a sticky beak will do nothing for the communities which have these problems and their reputation, at this stage.
I personally believe this is a 'name and shame' effort engineered by the Government in a cheap attempt to undermine the greater efforts of some hard work that has been done in the past. Much as it has done with the 'criminalisation' of Redfern.- Lets let a few Current Affairs journos loose with a few dollars for beer and watch the public opinion rise against the ongoing support for these communities. - 'The Paxton Blacks' Too easy.
On another note, I spoke to a staffer in Katherine when picking up my permit for Arnhem land and she advised they do use it as a screening tool - if 6 redneck yobbos turned up in their Rum-Cruisers, they wouldn't give them a permit. Simply for the reasons stated earlier.
I dont know what the answers are, but for those communities in a fragile state, I think the last thing they need is ACA/TT types and one-day gawkers with a simplistic view of the things they might see.
I think one of the main continuing problems is 'sit down' money, or CDEP money, (which is sit down money with a shovel). Some responsibiliy for actions and continuing engagement with the 'real world'. Im still surprised whenever I go to communites and towns to see white fellas running all the businesses. I dont get it.
And continuing deep-seated racism in most places west of the great divide ...but save that one for another day.

cheers
Richo
AnswerID: 194433

Reply By: Barnesy - Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 at 01:33

Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 at 01:33
It sounds like Kim and Richo are on the ball. Seems like the gov. wants to do this to allow media in to stop abuse of children. Their heart is in the right place.

I have spent a little time in Alice hospital and heard many stories of chronic, ingrained abuse in Alice and in surrounding communities that went unreported. I asked why nobody reported them and I was told they have given up. After about 10 efforts to get the authorities to do something, with nothing happening, everybody simply gives up.

If those in power in Canberra are serious about ending abuse and violence this would be a lot better place to start then just getting rid of the permit system.

People will now come and say there are problems with white and black law blah blah. Anybody who is guilty of serious crime such as abusing children or is violent can be prosecuted under Australian law.

Even then there are more deep seated underlying issues that I won't get into here.

Why don't they wait until an agreement is reached with the communities before a public announcement is made?

Barnesy
AnswerID: 194460

Reply By: kimprado - Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 at 18:51

Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 at 18:51
Bonz,

Go back and read the context of the Post.

Kim
AnswerID: 194949

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)