camping in Europe

gms, is what you're trying to say that Europe is a dirty, expensive fishbowl of a place to visit ?
We have much more than space here. We have a better lifestyle than many, and in general are not busy fighting the first and second world wars again :(
We used to be more egalitarian, but seem to have gotten over it under the present Govt.
At least I can drive across this country without a passport, and when I get where I'm going I don't need a second language.
We might not be as "advanced" in some areas, but it's still the lucky country.

Footloose,

interesting discussion .. what do you think we have in OZ what is so special that
Europe would not have it in your opinion ?
You do not need a passport anymore to travel Europe, except Switzerland.
Well and a second or third language is a good thing .. it is not an advantage
to speak or need only one .. there are many studies that learning a second language actually improves general learning skills and improves common knowledge.

So tell me what we got here they don't:

I say space is the most significant difference.
Resources of course but thats not what you meant I guess, but this is what keeps OZ alive otherwise we would not be where we are ..

Just lets collect a few arguments please.
Just friendly discussion no offense meant please.
Regards
gmd

gmd, no offence taken I've lived in both places, but am obviously biased :))
Lets see, off the top of my head;
The weather is better
The light is better
The people are still more laid back
We are better at assimilating other races. As a melting pot we haven't had a coup or civil war...yet :)
We are still making our country's history, not looking at it in museums.
We are mostly more laid back. Politics isn't the preoccupation that it is in many parts of Europe. We don't tend to get upset about much, but when we do the world knows about it (try throwing our embassy staff out:)
I think our kids still have more opportunities to get ahead in life than might be the case in many European countries.
We have a distinctly laconic type of humour.
We mostly side with what we perceive as the underdog.
Differences between the very rich and the very poor aren't mostly as obvious as in some parts of Europe.
We are better at many sports
And of course, we have many 4wds with bull bars (much to the disgust of he who must remain unmentioned, one man one fax machine)

Ok let me answer one by one. I was wondering with that discussion lately about Australian values and a pledge visitors and migrants should sign... well I am a migrant myself and I have reflected quite often about that and my move .. I am here voluntarily .. have chosen WA as my "Home" .. had to work hard to come and stay and have brought quite a bit of money too .. So I have a very personal view about "values". I am Australian citizen now (gave up my original citizenship) and are of the type who "mixes" well :)) ... not religious, not dogmatic, not militant and overly racist, coming from a liberal preety average European background. Having travelled to many places in the world and lived at a few. I am biased too (towards Australia of course) but still try yo be critical in a positive way. Ok .. that just as a bit of background that readers don't get too worked up on this ... AND .. I do not like POMS living here since decades on their English passports and not taking citizenship... AND .. yes I would fight for this country just in case someone might doubt my loyalty. ok thats enough now...

--- The weather is better.
One of the reasons we are here because the areas in Europe with nice climates are not the ones we would like to live in, but there is areas with nice weather ..

--- The light is better
I do a lot of photography and would not agree here.. it is brighter .. yes .. but in WA the skies are preety boring .. a nice dramatic cloud cover and a thunderstorm in summer makes great light and longer days and of course daylight saving .. ok we have that in OZ but not in WA ( pretty stupid)

--- The people are still more laid back
I agree 100% but is this always a good thing ? I am not so sure ... drives me nuts occasionally but I have slowed down myself a bit now and I get less agro about that

---- We are better at assimilating other races. As a melting pot we haven't had a coup or civil war...yet :)
I am not so sure about that .. There is countries in Europe which look way more tolerant and open to foreigners and migrants .. look at the policies and attitude .. I do not agree here .. not saying that it is wrong though ..

--- We are still making our country's history, not looking at it in museums.
Well that does not mean much to me personally .. I was never really too interested in history but sometimes tradition is something nice ... I am missing some of our traditions ... just can not get used to Christmas in summer .. never will

--- We are mostly more laid back. Politics isn't the preoccupation that it is in many parts of Europe.
Actually it annoys me a bit that I find my fellow countrymen here less political minded than were I come from .. Every country has the leaders it deserves is a saying: We could do better here in many ways if we would be a bit more political. Australians are rather conservative in changing things and that slows down progress and I do not mean progess in the sense of financial success or consum.

--- We don't tend to get upset about much, but when we do the world knows about it (try throwing our embassy staff out:)
I think Australia is not making its point strong enough .. we should have a lot more confidence and should be a bit less "American" in many areas.

--- I think our kids still have more opportunities to get ahead in life than might be the case in many European countries.
I do not necessarily agree. That is a long discussion. I have a daughter living in OZ and a son in Canada .. we came here also for them but to get somewhere and make a career means mostly overseas experience first.

--- We have a distinctly laconic type of humour.
Yeah right .. took me a while .. lol

--- We mostly side with what we perceive as the underdog.
Yes very much so .. I agree 100% and find myself doing that more and more.

--- Differences between the very rich and the very poor aren't mostly as obvious as in some parts of Europe.
I do not agree .. it just depends where you go and where you look.. US is worse of course but in Australia the differences are quite obvious more than most would like ..

--- We are better at many sports
Yes .. quite amazing how many "Amateurs" we still have doing very well ...

--- And of course, we have many 4wds with bull bars (much to the disgust of he who must remain unmentioned, one man one fax machine)
Haha .. but sometimes those Australina standards make me laugh and swear ...

Let me add:

I find a distinct difference between the city folks and the country folks .. more than in most parts of Europe .. more and more of the city folks is getting unfriendly, stressed and suspicious when you treat the polite and friendly.. very much like anonymous life in European cities... go through the supermarket in a major city in OZ and just say hi to everyone you pass .. strange looks is what you get ...

Do the same in Kalbarri or Exmouth or Northam or wherever in the country:
People are a lot more open, friendly and have more sense for community .. something we loose in the cities and we have lost that in Perth ... too many people coming here to chase the buck too quickly ... not good .. and now Howard wants to pay unemployed east coastlers up to 5000$ to come to the West .. We Do NOT Want Them !! and nobody asks us ...

all with the best intentions..

back to you
gmd

Thoughtful comments. I have to remind myself that this is a 4wd forum :))
I guess that part of the problem is not comparing apples with apples. Europe is a big place with many differences between countries. Pick a country.
In the same manner, Australia is also a huge place. Pick a state. WA can be quite different to live in, compared to say Brisbane.
Generalizing is fraught with difficulty.
Whilst I'm a huge critic of Australian politics and our system, you are correct. We get the mob we deserve. I would like to see more informed public discussion, but not at the dinner table. I don't think such discussion should be at the expense of our laid back lifestyle. Although we say we'd like to, few would actually try and commit violence against our pollies. If they did then we'd have to find someone else to whinge about :)
Yes there have always been differences between city (rat) dwellers and country people, but I suspect that the differences are becoming more pronounced. There used to be a huge difference between East and West coast people. I suffered culture shock when returning from my first trip to WA. It has changed a bit since the resources boom.
The differences between the very rich and the poor. Perhaps I'm blind or just don't move in the right circles, but I don't see it. Apart from our indigenous population, I've seen very little evidence of the super rich or dirst poor(compared to say Africa) here. Perhaps the super rich are busy splashing out overseas ?
As for opportunities, the list of people who have done well here and come from less than privileged backgrounds overseas is a very long one.
Yes we still have the cultural cringe where o/s experience is a prerequisite for advancement in some fields. But surely that isn't confined to this country?
WA is not exactly the land of contrasts, light wise. Come over this way for 12 months.
Our Americanization is something I also strongly disagree with. But a quick peek at the geopolitics of our region can be sobering.
Let me say in closing that I don't think that much of Australia can be understood without a historical perspective, the way we are and the way we do things is a direct result of our background. We're not changing our history as much as making it. And to be a part of it can be pretty exciting.
For a young country with a relatively small population I'd suggest that we are probably punching above our own weight.

Of course there are still a few questions that need to be addressed...like whether to buy a Nissan or a Toyota :)))))))