Nissan GU iv auto hubs.

Submitted: Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 20:40

ThreadID: 37821 Views:5017 Replies:7 FollowUps:17

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Chugga

Can any of you mechanics out there confirm or refute the following.
I've just stepped out of a base model 80 series (free wheeling hubs) that had a Lockrite diff lock in the front diff. If I engaged the hubs but stayed in 2wd you could hear the difflock clunking as it released. This was not a problem and it only happened when I was temporarily not using 4wd. It was a great locker and so when I got my GU iv I decided to fit one to it's front diff also (albeit a 'Lokka' this time).
Now that it's in, the thing ratchets every turn I make. It went together perfectly and all the specs were within tolerance and I've checked I'm in 2wd and the hubs are unlocked eg 'auto'. Here's the question. Is this happening because the Nissan's hubs are Auto hubs are don't trully disengage like ordinary hubs?
Any opinions would greatly be appreciated.
Chugga

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Reply By: Leroy - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:01

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:01

Have you disengaged the hubs by reversing a few meters after you have changed back to 2wd?

Leroy

AnswerID: 195168

Reply By: kev.h - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:25

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:25

The auto hubs should only engauge when being driven by the axle so either they are not unlocking or your in 4wd
1.jack up one wheel -does it spin free - if it does the hubs unlocked
2. try turning the front drive shaft with the car in gear - is it free -it will only turn half a turn then the front hubs will lock turn it back the the the other way it should do the same thing, If its not free (compare it to the rear drive shaft it will not turn more than a few degrees ) you are still in 4wd
Either way you will know where your problem is !
Regards Kev

AnswerID: 195174

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:56

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:56

good ad for proper air lockers

AnswerID: 195189

Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:12

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:12

as opposed to the improper ones? Putting an air locker in is not going to help the hubs unlock.

Leroy

FollowupID: 453283

Follow Up By: Chugga - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:45

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:45

Yeah air lockers are good but my experiences are that they are prone to not disengaging quick enough and so putting you in places where you don't want to be not to mention the oil mess under the bonnet. I won't say the Lokka (and similar difflocks) are better by miles but I do prefer a locking system that is automatic and that you don't have switch on and off and on and off........
I'm sure my problem is a combination of the thing being new and tight and/or being used with 'auto' hubs instead of ordinary hubs.

FollowupID: 453293

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 13:37

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 13:37

You should always engage lockers before attempting situations...

oil mess under teh bonnet? From what? an air locker?

FollowupID: 453376

Follow Up By: Chugga - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:02

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:02

Yeah. Here's what would happened. After any days good 4wding, diff oil would leak (and I suspect spray) out of the air connection or filter and make a bl**dy great mess under the bonnet. ARB said the problem was in the seals in the diff but I wasn't going to pay for them to fix what shoud never have happened in the first place.
As for the disengaging problem, picture this. You're climbing a mother of a hill with deflated tyres and there is a dog leg half way up. If you don't disengage at the dog leg the car wants to go straight ahead and if you do disengage (if it will whilst under load) you get stuck. Like I said, I don't condemn air lockers I just prefer auto lockers by a nose and I've had both the Detroit and the Lokrite.

FollowupID: 453467

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 22:24

Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 22:24

so the problem was a leakin seal that if replaced would have fixed the oil leak...?

you disengage the front, turn like normal, leaving rear in, keep driving.

FollowupID: 453974

Reply By: GUPatrol - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:24

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:24

Chugga,
I can explain, same thing happened to me.

When you have any open diff in the front, the auto hubs work by engaging when driven by the prop shaft, they then disengage of driven in the opposite direction in 2wd. The hubs are not always in phase, in other words you will find that they click out of lock one at a time, it may take half a turn on one wheel and a quarter turn on the other wheel, this is because the auto hubs work on a cam system and they are not always in the same spot.
With the lockright or lokka or whichever cam system difflock, the diff lock is always locked and it only unlocks when forced to, hence the clicking sound.
With the auto hubs engaged as you reverse one hub disengages but the other may not yet be there it needs another quarter turn of the wheel to disengage but the difflock then draggs the one that has already dissingaged in the opposite direction and locks it again... from then on it is a vicious circle unless both hubs are in phase.
I found it worked to zig zag as you reverse but in the end I fitted manual hubs (problem fixed).
I then also fitted a proper air locker so that I could control when to lock the diff, but a friend left his lokka in and did over 250000kms without a problem but with the auto hubs he also had the issue of the auto hubs not dissingaging

I hope I have been clear enough on what happens.
Will

AnswerID: 195195

Follow Up By: Chugga - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:52

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 22:52

Thanks Will
This is what I suspected was happening. I had auto hubs on an L300 I had years ago and they worked fine - no dragging what so ever. They were either in or out.
I thought of fitting ordinary hubs but wasn't sure if they were available. When did you fit yours? What make of car was it? Can you remember the cost? (It looks like I'm gunna have to buy them anyway).
Thanks for replying and if you could get back to me with the above answers that would be great.
Chugga

FollowupID: 453294

Follow Up By: Muzzgit - Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 23:59

Monday, Sep 18, 2006 at 23:59

Chugga, the auto hubs on the GU aren't the best. I would opt for some after-market Manual locking FWH. I am having trouble with mine and am looking at going down the same path. [I don't have diff locks]

A question for you, if I can. Did the locker in the front effect your steering?

FollowupID: 453312

Follow Up By: junior - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 00:29

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 00:29

Why not go for Genuine manual hubs- anyone know what the price comparison is???

FollowupID: 453315

Follow Up By: Muzzgit - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 00:57

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 00:57

Been there, done that!

Nissan want $700 each.

FollowupID: 453321

Follow Up By: Robin - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 07:53

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 07:53

Support Gupatrols reply.

Either automatic system can work well by itself , but the putting of two automatic systems in series has potential for conflicts and via patrol group have always advised against this.

Muzzgit , love the auto hubs with air-locker set up on my GU , but for my Gq had autolocker and it could severly intefere with steering under power, so much so that I spent a lot more time in 2wd to prevent front wheels breaking traction in slippery conditions. The autolocker did very well though in some conditions, but the air locker provides choice.

Robin Miller

FollowupID: 453328

Follow Up By: GUPatrol - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 08:52

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 08:52

Chugga,
For the manual hubs I did all the sums and ended up getting AVM hubs from ARB.
They are not the best but they are simple, people report failures but in what seems to be extreme situations, I have not had any problems and for the price diff you can carry another set and still be in front. they are easy to replace.

My vehicle is a GU patrol 4.2TD.

FollowupID: 453334

Follow Up By: junior - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 20:31

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 20:31

$1400 for a pair???????????? OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

FollowupID: 453456

Follow Up By: Chugga - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:08

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:08

Hi Muzzgit, no the locker did not effect the steering or the turning circle one bit - when in 2wd! But once you engaged 4wd, yes it did. For me this was not a big issue but you may want to test drive a similar car to your own that has an auto locker in it. What I think is acceptable and what you think is, may be way different. In my opinion the torque steer effect is noticeable but not bothersome. Hope this answers your question.

FollowupID: 453469

Follow Up By: Chugga - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:22

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 21:22

Hey Will (and all those other kind people who replied) I had already driven backwards down the street in 2wd for some distance before posting this enquiry and the hubs were still engaged causing the ratcheting noise when I drove on bitumen in 2wd. I knew they had not disengaged as this was the same noise my Lokrite made in my 80 series when I drove it in 2wd, hubs locked (to get from the beach to the water taps or servo at Rainbow Beach and back again). So this morning I drove backwards down the street again weaving as I went - but problem was still there. I then jacked up one front wheel and sure enough the hub was locked. I rotated the wheel backward and could hear the Lokka ratcheting then all of a sudden there was a clunk and the wheel spun freely. I then looked at the other side and it was the same. Now the car is driving as it should when in 2wd. We head up the beach on Sunday for a week so maybe a bit of a workout for the Lokka might loosen things up and let the hubs work better. I'm still interested in those manual hubs though. Thanks for all your help too.

FollowupID: 453474

Follow Up By: GUPatrol - Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 at 00:04

Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 at 00:04

Chugga,
The auto hubs have been designed to fullfill a role being automatic, the manual function is very poor and the cam system to force it locked (which is part of the nut you turn) wear out quickly because it is of an alloy material.
Using the auto hubs with an open front diff and in auto mode will last and probably won't give any problems but they were not designed to cope with the added complexities of the auto diff lock.
In addition, to operate the auto hubs have lots of circlips, springs and a copper retainer which will eventually fatigue and brake causing havoc, this is the reason why I changed mine to manual hubs, but for average Joe who takes the patrol bush every now and then, auto hubs will work OK.
The AVM hubs from ARB cost $140? for a set, take half hour to install and work fine, some claim that they are weak, maybe for competition they are. If they are however it could be a good thing, you always know that the hub will brake before the axle and the hub is cheap and fast to replace.
For longer trips I now take a spare set (AVM) ones.
Will

FollowupID: 453519

Follow Up By: Chugga - Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 at 13:58

Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 at 13:58

Will. After doing about 50 kms the hubs had rengaged themselves. This time I did the weaving in reverse thing and they disengaged and everything is jake again. I priced a set of AVM manual hubs today and they are in the vicinity of $250 a pair.
I've decided to see what the hubs do after our week up the beach - they may free up. Thanks for all your help.

FollowupID: 453603

Reply By: Chaz - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 10:28

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 10:28

Hi Chugga,
There could be a simple, cheap or even temporary solution to your problem. Try converting your auto hubs into manual ones by removing the circlip. I haven't done this because I'm happy with the auto function, but if you translate this WEB PAGE, it will explain how to do it.

Chaz

AnswerID: 195277

Follow Up By: GUPatrol - Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 23:57

Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 at 23:57

Chaz,

The information on that web page is incorrect and incomplete, those who choose to follow those instructions will end up with an inoperable set of hubs.

The auto hubs have been designed to fullfill a role being automatic, the manual function is very poor and the cam system to force it locked (which is part of the nut you turn) wear out quickly because it is of an alloy material.
Using the auto hubs with an open front diff and in auto mode will last and probably won't give any problems but they were not designed to cope with the added complexities of the auto diff lock.
In addition, to operate the auto hubs have lots of circlips, springs and a copper retainer which will eventually fatigue and brake causing havoc, this is the reason why I changed mine to manual hubs, but for average Joe who takes the patrol bush every now and then, auto hubs will work OK.

FollowupID: 453518

Reply By: 03stgu - Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 17:22

Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 17:22

Out of curiosity have you changed your transfer case oil . I had similar problem with periodic clicking noise from auto hubs. Ended up been wrong transfer case oil used causing hydraulic lookup in transfer case. just enough for tail shaft to move and cause auto hubs to start to engage.

AnswerID: 195756

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 17:32

Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 at 17:32

I had the same prob.
Simple fix = went to manual hubs AVM and prob solved plus no trouble in 50k also I can engage low range when placing the van to ensure a very low speed on idle.
Yes Mine is a 4.2td GU.