update on Nissan Piston / Broke issue

Not just several contributors Roachie. Don is number 14 in Explore Oz forum alone.
Don, get in contact with Val Davis at Nissan and let her know just how many in this forum alone have suffered the same problem.
Regards Andrew.

Explore Oz Forum.

Daggs.
Blown_zd30-------------------------- 244K
Roly.
AJB------------------------------------196K
Pud & Barb--------------------------165K
Bulla. (daughters car)
Yakodi--------------------------------130K
Plugger.
JR -------------------------------------130K
Mike.
B & M. -------------------------------126K
Emackj--------------------------------157K
Fourstall2000-------------------------118K
Donald A-------------------------------50K 2004 STL

Roachie.

I'm not involved with a nissan product, and do not want to criticise, But do feel for the ones that have had the dramas! Why can't the failures recorded on this forum be exposed to Nissan. How many more series of this motor are they going to build? If anyone could take somethig to Nissan, I reckon your the man!!.

Cheers Axle.

G'day Axle,

I'm flattered that you'd think that I'd have some sort of "pull" with Nissan. However, the truth is that I'm just another insignificant owner of a Patrol (and a 4.2TD at that). Val Davis wouldn't know me from a bar of soap.......but I reckon that the list of owners printed above would be a great start for Don to get hold of and put under their noses (at Nissan).......with words like
"we are the 'people'......we know this is a well-known issue for Nissan......it is deplorable that you should even _consider_ making us pay for any portion of the repair bill for a defective product that YOU have supplied........do the words "CLASS ACTION" mean anything to you people?.......stuff like that.

Cheers blokes

Roachie

Bugger... I took my fairly new second hand GU into a dealer the other day and the first thing they tried to sell me was a $1300 extended warranty. I can't help but wonder what the point of that might be if they don't actually fix stuff that breaks when it shouldn't be breaking. I wonder how I'll go with wobbly wheelsa and leaking tail lights ?

...I want my FJ45 back...850000 kms, cylinder head off once, 1 clutch plate, 1 radiator core, 1 water pump, 1 set of core plugs and all the rest of the repairs would be regarded as consumables, small bickies or my fault...Mind you, no air con, can't speak at 100km/h and 18l/100km...

See bottom of post,
cheers
Don

Now that I have read below that you took the motor apart, I expect that Nissan are well within their rights to knock back the claim. Perhaps if this info was in your first post, then this thread may not have been as long, and I wouldn't have posted a stupid post like the one above :-))

But I also do my own servicing - even on new vehicles under warranty. I've had some serious issues with poor workmanship from dealers (in one case, teh dealer mechanics destroyed the motor), and in the long run, I think I'm better off taking the risk that I'll get knocked back on a warranty claim. And I have peace of mind that the genuine parts and oils have been used and all the items have been done. I keep perfect records and the receipts for the genuine oils and parts.

Don't be turned off doing your own servicing - as long as you buy a vehicle that has a very good record for reliability.

G'day Steve,

We all need to know what the "minor servicing issues" are before going too much further down this track.

With my own Patrol, I did all my own servicing from day 1 (it went back to Nissan for the "free" service right at the beginning). However, with about 80,000klm on the clock, I got transferred here to SA (from NSW). I had all my bigger tools and stuff loaded on my tandem trailer and had to leave it back in Yass, as I wanted to bring the camper trailer over when I first came. Once I arrived here, a standard 5,000klm service was due. I didn't know any private mechanics at the time so I reluctantly booked it into the local Nissan place to get the oil/filters changed.

When I picked it up that afternoon, the service manager asked me whether I'd noticed any problems with the gearbox. When I said "no", he informed me they had some concerns because they did a "routine" check of other oils/fluids and found the gearbox oil to be 'coffee-coloured'. To them, this was a sign that 5th gear had probably seen better days. They OFFERRED to replace it under warranty, which of course I'd jumped at. They showed me the main shaft and cog once they'd done the job and these were 2 parts which didn't look like they belonged to each other....there was just soooo much slop when the cog was on the shaft.

Anyway, the whole purpose of me writing all this dribble is to point out that Mr Nissan _can_ do it if they want to. My owners manual (the bit at the back where service details are recorded) was occasionally filled in (by me) when I did an oil change or something, but most of the little boxes are still very blank.....and I now have over 200,000klm on the clock.

So, if Don has missed an occasion when the windscreen bottle wasn't topped up, or the power-steering fluid wasn't changed etc etc, Nissan can hardly claim that he brought all this onto himself, eh? However, of course, if he bought the thing new in January 2005 and has never lifted the bonnet, changed the engine oil etc , then Nissan would have every right to knock back his warranty claim. My belief is that the warranty should be honoured if the owner has done all reasonable things needed to ensure the longevity of the vehicle.

Cheers mate

Roachie

Hi again Don

I just read your other post where you gave quite a bit of detail on the failure. So the piston cracked. Ouch

What reason did Nissan give for not honoring warranty?

Regards
Spinifex

"A 04 patrol should be well outside the known problem models."

What a load of crep, the later ones are still the same engine and will start blowing as they are getting older and the mileage is getting up, they havent been fixed at all. Yeh a bit more oil in the sump, wow that will do it!!!!!

Nissan are probably sick of fixing these things so they are acting like insurance companies and making you work really hard for a repair.

These buckets of puss are a discrace and should have all been recalled .

I have seen people gloating because there's has made it to 100,000 and still going great, hell I would be livid I spent 60K and it didnt make it to 350 - 400,000 minimum for a deisel engine,

If these things are so good, why is it that we dont hear on this forum about the 3l size motors blowing up in Prado, Rodeo, Pajero, etc etc etc ?

Make as much public noise as you can and hope you get a complete repair mate.

Just get wound up by some of the 3L do gooders on this site who havent the balls to admit that they own a bucket of crep.

Cheers Pesty

PESTY MARRY ME!!!!

Do you know for sure that nothing has changed? why do people keep opening there mouths when they dont have a clue, I do not know what changes have been made but i do know they have done more than just increase the oil capacity such as fitting ceramic pistons. and no im not trying to justify owning one as i dont, but dont you think it is worth waiting to hear what is really going on? being a mechanic i have seen people that have done the wrong thing such as forget to put oil in seize the engine then fill it up and try to get repaired on warranty.

there still blowing up arent they?
Cant have changed too much!

Hi Pesty

You shouldn’t get wound up by me as I was directing my questions to Don.

As a 3.0lt Patrol owner I am concerned about the failure of these engines and like to find out the details.
As I was when I owned a Pajero and learnt of the gearbox problems
As I was when I owned a Toyota and learnt of the timing belt failures.
Etc
Etc

I believe that the newer patrols have a different block (oil gallery changes) different pistons and different injection nozzle design with a different high pressure injection pump. The sump capacity hasn’t changed since its increase back in 2000.

Regards
Spinifex

Hi All,

One thing for certain is there were major changes to the block and various other parts of the 3.0 and some a quite happily roaming about with 300,000 plus.

But reputations are hard to shake off. Here we have a car which is clearly in warranty and for Nissan to refuse there are other factors involved. Many engines from lots of manufactures have pistons who fail, mainly due to poor maintenance.

So just because 1 2004 model fails dont just assume its the old hole in the piston. The fact that Nissan has said no to the repair means there is more to this story.

Scottcamp,
With the unknown factor always in your mind, how the hell could you feel safe heading off on a remote trip in one of these , when you need your vehicle to be your lifeline , espectially if its done 300,000, given the history?
"The reputations are hard to shake " , yep and justified
Down a bit a post says to check oil daily is critical to help the problem? bet that never happens, hell I know people who have other brands of 3L and they never check there oil in between services, this may not be a good practice but they dont blow up either. What a pain in the arm pit , pay 60K for a 4wd which has to have oil checked and topped up every day, and has a unknown reliability factor to go bush in?
The fact that nissan have said no to the repair has been said many times on here, many poor sod's have spent many weeks without a car fighting Nissan over a blown engine, its because they are sick of fixing these things , not because there is more to the story.

Cheers Pesty

Hi pesty,
I agree, i know it is not good practice but the only time i lift the bonnet is to put in screen wash. You're right this alone should not be a major problem. But all i am saying is lets just see how the never engine pans out, one failure is not proof that the engine is not fixed.

Slightly off topic,

A guy in my street has a Mazda RX8, now that does need the oil checked every week. What a pain that would be!

I'd hazard a guess that the less than 3/5ths of b@gger all ZD30's getting around with over 300K on em yet Scott.

Ah Truckster - see you have mellowed somewhat. You used to say they were ca*p for everything - now you seem to admit they are a good vehicle unless you want to tow a big van!
Geez at this rate we will have you buying one in 6 months!!!

they are F A N T A S T I C for engine swaps..
that one on Ebay for $8k the other week... what a dream it would have been to have bought, with the auto already in it, go to brunswicks, and turn it into a decent 4b instead of a true hunk of bleep .

Come on Phantom - you should know better - facts don't exist in the great 'Lets knock Nissan' debate!!! that this forum seems to attract

As yet we have yet to see a 2003 onwards first hand fail. Think about it, Nissan is a major car maker, if they thought there was a fundamental problem they would have pulled the engine years ago. They obviously feel that it is now fixed, and to be honest we have seen no real evidence to prove otherwise.

Think about it, there were lots of failures in 2002 of the early models, if it was not fixed then the 2003/4 should be failing in large numbers, but they are not. What we have is some very unconfirmed isolated cases failing, hardly conclusive evidence.

The word I have from someone in Nissan who wouldn't want to be identified, is that-

The engines use oil when doing heavy towing or when doing high speed highway work (hence the police vehicles being notoriously bad). The oil level can become critically low if not checked daily when doing such work. (I have observed this oil usage in my vehicle).

He said the best way to ensure the engine doesn;t fail is to use the recommended oil (see earlier posts) and check oil daily, particularly if towing or doing highway work.

That is the info I have. Now I know there is a high probability of being flamed for this post, as a ZD30 owner, but please guys remember these are not my words, they are someone elses. Someone who had personally looked at the history of 5 vehicles with blown engines.

As for car manufacturers not honouring warranties over technicalities, challenge it in court. There is such a thing as implied warranty and if for instance, you've done everything but wash the windows with the correct soap, a court will find that the windows don't affect the pistons, and the psitons should last longer than 50,000K.

Cheers
David

Hi David,
You could be right, for the first few years engines but i think the newer engine is ok. As you all know i am from the UK and we generally drive at fasters speeds here. I have just completed a 2500 Mile trip from Glasgow to Amsterdam via many other points. During that trip we kept speeds of 135 Km/h for long periods. Not once did i check the oil, i just got round to checking the oil last week and as expected no top up was needed. So in 20,000 km apart from the service i have never needed to top it up. But then again i do not tow, but i think the newer engines are ok.

It has also came to my attention recently that ALL 3.0 engines were recalled in the UK and hence failures are non-existant in the UK. It still is amazing that they never done the same in OZ, their biggest market.

Hi All

I really wonder about this whole incident, as I know many Nissan Patrol owners who have NOT blown their ZD30 motors and have travelled well over the 100,000 kms.

I also know that Nissan are very specific about their engine servicing requirements, i.e. the grade of engine oil and the frequency of service requirements.

Owners must remember that items like the following are to be taken seriously;

- use genuine filters and parts, non genuine air cleaner filters that are foam wash out in turps and re oil are not to be used;

- never ever use CG or SG engine oil;

- service notice that 10W - 40 oil must be used;

- maximum (Note NOT MINIMUM!) oil change period is 10,000 kms.

- change oil and filters more frequently under dusty or extreme conditions like extended heavy towing and stop start short trips and city driving.

- It is not reasonable to expect the manufacturer to warranty engines that have been modified by the installation of electronic management systems that increase the power and performance.

- Nissan motor mechanics are not stupid and they have heard every BS story that a car owner has ever thought of plus a few more.

The one and only ZD30 engine failure that I know about personally is a 2000 model that failed in the last 4 months. It has travelled well over 150,000 kms and has always been serviced correctly and on time. The local Nissan dealer was very cooperative and assisted in negotiations with Nissan HQ who agreed to agreed to repairs without much hassle with the exception of items they classed as consumables, for example; hoses, belts, clips, filters and lubricants which cost about $1,000.

So the question is, what are the full facts of this story?

If Nissan is treating this owner badly and are there others with genuine complaints who have been treated badly by Nissan even though their engines have not been modified and have been serviced correctly and in a timely manner. if the answer is yes, we owners if GU ZD30 vehicles should all get together and really start to treat Nissan as they deserve.

I want to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

WHAT ARE THE REAL FACTS????????

Please no second hand bull bleep from guys up the road who have maiden aunties of 2nd cousins once removed who have experienced blown Nissan engines.

regards
Phil

see my update at bottom of post...yes I will want someone to buy my 3.0ltr TD soon...............
cheers
Don

>>> if they thought there was a fundamental problem they would have pulled the engine years ago.

Your kidding arent you? Money comes first, it would have cost them 2390482309480239482039423048230 to admit a problem with the grenade.

Hi Vic,

Well they pulled every 3.0 ZD30 in Europe, no small number. As i have said many times before, i do not understand why they never done it in Australia. But lets be honest your right it will come down to dollars and pounds, thats for certain.

Take care

Scott

Hi Truckster,

Well they pulled every 3.0 ZD30 in Europe, no small number. As i have said many times before, i do not understand why they never done it in Australia. But lets be honest your right it will come down to dollars and pounds, thats for certain.

Take care

Scott

Ooopss,

Sorry Truckster, that should have said Trucster, and not VIC, sorry, usual scottish past time i'm bleep , holiday tomorrow. In fact we are of to Ben Nevis in Fort Wiliam tomorrow for a climb to work the booze off.

Cheers

Scott

Have to agree here, dealers will try to get out of warranty work, piss's me off sometimes. But if Donal feels he is in the right he should push it. I agree that an engine should not fail this soon even if it has been poorly maintained but as yet we do not know the full story. I agree the 3.0 has a justified bad reputation but before writing off the never engines we need a but more evidence than 1 failure.

Hi Flash, have replied on the bottom of post,
cheers
Don

Somebody is telling porkys "The trade practices act has been re-interpreted by manufactures warranties & does not give consumers their entitlements under the act. "
Consumer Affairs have a different slant on that , the "manufactures warranties" cannot under any circumstances lower your protection under "The trade practices act "or the consumer affairs, they can only offer you different protection but it cannot be of a lower standard as the act is the mimimum requirement
There are also consumer protection laws which are largly on your side
next step get some legal advice then go after the b*st*rds
Best of luck Kev

Hi Don

Did you discover that the oil level was low after the engine failed? As pointed out by “David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along Tours” I too have witnessed the 3.0 engine use oil when towing or doing high speed work. Even though it doesn’t use a drop around town.

The oil usage seems to be linked to the air cleaner restriction at higher RPM.
I once fitted a droopy sock foam filter in the snorkel and was topping up the oil every 3000 klms. Never used a drop of oil before fitting the sock or after removing it.

I also stopped using the oiled paper air cleaner element for this reason as it would not last 10,000klm (Pilbara vehicle). I have not experienced any oil usage under any conditions since using the genuine dry paper element.

Regards
Spinifex

Oh boy, I feel for you mate, I am a marine engineer also.
What on EARTH possessed you to do that? Sorry to say that I can see why they would view that as more than a "technicality"
But I have to say that I would not even put a spanner on a vehicle of mine still in warranty without even speaking to the dealers first.
Sadly I can certainly understand that the dealers would be steering clear, for all they know you could have swapped parts from another engine to cover an operator caused problem. Probably also they might be sus on what else you may have done to it previously.
Unlikely I know but SURELY you would be aware of the consequences of dismantling your engine yourself?
The only case where I could understand would be if they said there was nothing wrong with it so you stripped it yourself.

Having said that, while you fight them, be sure to provide them with evidence of your qualifications etc.

Hi Don

I really think that if you went pretty hard with Nissan they would have to come to the party. Surely they have some obligation to prove how your dismantling of the engine caused the damage if they are refusing to help you.

I am also aware that legally, a recognised technically qualified and experienced person is taken seriously in legal matters. Perhaps you could consider paying for a member of the Institute of Automotive Engineers to provide an opinion that the piston failed under normal use, that the engine was dismantled correctly and in no way contributed to the engine failure.

The Law Council or what ever it is called in your state can supply a list of lawyers who are specialists in matters to do with engineering and consumer law. Many law firms have free 1st visits or cost maybe $100 to $300 for basic advise about if you have a case and what the total costs of fighting it may be.

I think firms like Nissan could get very nervous at the thought of us ordinary people challenging them. Printing off a copy of this Forum and the number of replies and especially the number of site hits received so they can see the interest your problem has generated.

Keep in touch and I sincerely hope you get fair result.

good luck
Phil

Mabey nissan should have a look at the hits on this topic,Well worth a look dont you think so.

Hi Ben,

160kw/500nm ??? Mate, I think some-one is pulling the pee out of you.
There is no way a direct injection diesel engine that size could produce that kind of power without some MAJOR mod work.
Even D-tronic themselves only advertise "up to 30%" increase, which equates to an advertised 145kw and 420nm, and that's under perfect premium controlled conditions. In the real world would be more like 135kw and 400nm at the most.

Avagoodn
Pezza

Hi Guys,
It does escape me why some ZD30's make it to high mileages and some don't. Although not common, mainly because of the age of the cars, there are lots of 300,000 Km plus Zd30's and some are close to 400,000. As i said before time will tell with this engine.

Hi Scott,

Interesting this failure, not quite the classic series II as its #1 piston with a crack, but does have the hole. But Nissan denying warranty on what is otherwise within warranty is unusual.

This is the first owner reported series III ZD30 failure and unfortunately its not straightforward. Opening up the engine yourself, well that is just asking for trouble on a warrantied vehicle.

But the first thought that springs to my mind is the oil changes. This motor is super critical to the type of oil and I wonder if the wrong grade has been used. All too easy to put in CG by mistake. And this failure has occurred at 50K, pretty low even by series II standards.

Also the compression readings are interesting, 0.6bg (8.7psi) per revolution? As this engine is a 17:1 compression, should read in the order of 17bg (250psi) maximum, yet it topped the guage out at 20bg (290psi). Now if the turbo was pumping out 20psi while doing the compression test, then max compression (ignoring mechanical losses) is ~340psi. But the turbo would barely be turning, nevermind putting out any psi increase at idle. Just not sure of the diagnosis.

While there is no denying this is a failure, is it just a co-incidence that it was owner serviced and also the only reported series III failure?

Typical to see all the normal ZD30 knockers out again, one series III "failure" and all series III's written off. But funny how a GU 4.2TD failure at 3,000km mentioned above doesn't make that engine a writeoff and not one knocker even mentions this (Note -I think the 4.2TD is one of the most reliable engines, apart from its overheating issues). All mechanical devices will have a failure rate, its just what is "acceptable" that is questionable and why there is a manufacturers warranty.

I actually think its quite humerous to see the vitriolic passion some people hate this engine with, me thinks they have some sort of size issue:) All have the theme that its too small to pull a 3 tonne vehicle, yet the average truck engine at 16 litres pulls 36+tonne - you do the math!

But regardless of all this, I do feel for Don and hope he keeps the pressure on Nissan. As said earlier, Don needs to stick to the facts, not get angry and just keep on plugging away at head office.

Cheers

Captain

PS - Pesty, when in the outback, I would be far more worried about puntured tyres, battery failure, shock failure, diff failure etc... All these are real failures that have occurred countless times on many, many outback trips and have resulted in people needing assitance by others. I have yet to hear of any ZD30 failure on any "outback" trip, but even if it did occur it would be way down my list of likely problems to worry about :)

Hi Captain,
I agree with what you say, the engine failure could be down to a hundred reasons. Just because we have one 2004 fail is hardly proof that the modified engine is crap. I really do feal for Donald, the guy could strip that engine down and rebuild it in his sleep, but unfortunately that is not the point here. I can also see Nissans point, the only way Donald is going to win is to prove he is qualified to strip the engine down. If it was my car i would not have touched it, but then again i am no engineer.

I travel all over Europe with the ZD30 and as captain says the last thing on my mind is engine failure. Had plenty of punctures on the standard bridgestones, they are more a worry. I honestly think the newer ZD30 is fine.

One other thing i do not buy is the engine is too small. Well guys get used to it, in Europe a 3.0 is a big engine. We have 3.0l engines putting out 300 Bhp with 100% reliability. Landrover have never used over 2.5L in their diesels in the Defender yet it has managed to travel to every cornor of the globe. The original ZD30 had a design fault, nothing to do with being stressed. Hopefully it is now fixed and by all the evidence or lack of failures i would say it is.

Talk to you guys tomorrow, its late here in the UK.

Cheers

Scott

Hi Scott,

Agree with you 100%. I am currently in Chile for work at the moment and its late evening here while in Aus all are just waking up to a Sunday morning.

Cheers

Captain

Guys,

You 2 are the only level headed posters on this topic.

Leroy

"One other thing i do not buy is the engine is too small. Well guys get used to it, in Europe a 3.0 is a big engine. We have 3.0l engines putting out 300 Bhp with 100% reliability. "

while that is undoubtably true Scot, how many of these are 4 cylinders pushing over 2.5 tonnes? (and with a huge tow rating also)
Thats not to say that it cant be done successfully, just that obviously this isnt the engine to do it? The fact that Navaras seem to run reliably with the non intercooled version seems to point to this also?
and the point is the number of failures not successes I think isnt it? When an Aeroflot jet crashes no one says "I know one that didnt crash"

Hi fisho64,

How about the BMW 3.0, the Merc 3.0, the Jeep CRD3.0, the Navara 2.5, the Hlux 3.0, the Discovery ... need I go on? In fact virtually all new diesel engines are 3 litres or less and 4 cylinders. And they are in vehicles that are the equivalent weight and similair tow ratings.

Bottom line is, apart from the Yank diesels and the rumoured Toyota V8 twin turbo, just about every engine is 4 cyl and 3 litres or less. And these engines are also in light trucks hauling over 5 tonne on a regular basis.

While the series II did have issues, there were design changes for the series III (block, sensors, oil galleries, piston, etc...) so to try and compare the two engines is just not valid. jSo to say "just that obviously this isnt the engine to do it?" is just plain wrong IMHO. This current failure is the first owner reported failure and he took the engine apart to diagnosis it, something the average person simply doesn't do if its under warranty!!!

Even the esteemed GU4.2TD has owner reported failures and there are far less GU wagon 4.2TDs than series III 3.0TD's, just look at the sale stats!!!

Cheers

Captain

dont have time to research just at the moment but Im pretty sure that the hilux and navara arent as heavy as the patrol, nor the same tow rating. Id be suprised if the bmw or merc was the same weight either? Which trucks are rated to 5 tonnes with less than 3 litres? Remember the patrol is able to pull 6 tonnes in total?

"How about the BMW 3.0, the Merc 3.0, the Jeep CRD3.0, the Navara 2.5, the Hlux 3.0, the Discovery ... need I go on? In fact virtually all new diesel engines are 3 litres or less and 4 cylinders. And they are in vehicles that are the equivalent weight and similair tow ratings. "

BMW X5 3.0 204 hp, 2100kg, 6 cylinder, tow cap 2700kg
Jeep CRD is V6, 220hp, cant find weight
Navara 128kw, 1985kg, tow 3000kg
And the Defender, 2055kg or 2130 for the 130 model, no power figures released on the website.
PATROL 2480kg and tow 3200kg

havent been able to find the "4 cyl, 3.0, 300 hp" european diesel yet, give us a clue Scot!
Most of the 3 litre euro ones (at least that you mention) are V6
None that I can find was over 2.480 tonnes

Certainly is early days to be knocking the later model 3.0TD's but it is enough to start making people nervous considering its history. Only time will tell.

As for truck engines Captain there are similar failures for engines that are producing too much hp for their size. Cummins 650 a few years ago is a good example.

Hi Captain,

Was gonna bring up the " too small for the car size " issue one day aswell. It's gonna take a bit of typing and I hate typing, is all.
A bit of info for all those who think the engine is too small.
What Captain said is correct except that 16lt's usually goes in front of 62.5 tonne B-doubles and 80 tonne double road trains, the bigger tripples also use the same size engine, the normal singles at 42.5 tonne usually only get 12lt's.
The 12lt's are usually rated at around 420-430hp and 1750ft/lb of torque, (320kw/2345nm) and a 16lt Cat is rated at 600hp and 2050ft/lb (445kw/2745nm)
These engines have no problem going to between 700,000 and 1mil km's before rebuild.
As he said, do the maths.

Avagoodn
Pezza

all these figures point to one thing
other manufacturers can build engines to work at these levels but Nissan failed miserably. I wouldnt say its a dog (Im a dog lover!) maybe a fleabitten dingo though.
Can ANYONE deny that, whether fixed or not, this engine is a big millstone around Nissans neck and has done irrepairable damage to the Nissan reputation?

and why, if the engine is so good, does the 4.2TD with less torque and KW, have a higher tow rating than the 3 litre???

Hi Guys,

The point i was trying to make was, a 3.0 with 160Bhp is not stressed. You only have to look at Nissans commercial range(link below). There are thousands of these cabstars running about with starship mileages using the ZD30, the same for the vans. No one can also say these things are treated nice, but year in year out they win awards.

www.nissan.co.uk/uk/lcv/launch/weight.html

Also look at the power from the new Iveco, again 170 is about the norm.

Site Link

Yes it is a good point that there are not many 4 cylinder 3.0's, you mainly find 4 pot 3.0's in 4x4's, just look at the new pajero.

" target="EOF" class="lbg">Site Link

The reason not many cars have 3.0 4 cylinders is because they can get the same power out a 4 cylinder 2.0 engine and you would not get the required smoothness.

For example shown below a 2.0 Diesel should put out about 160-170 bhp no problem with complete reliability.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat-review-part-2-30-05-05.asp

Site Link

" target="EOF" class="lbg">Site Link

So why do they put 3.0 4 cylinders into 4x4's, simple a 3.0 which puts out the same power as a 2.0 is under stressed and will have the suitable torque. A 3.0 four cylinder putting out 156 Bhp is well under power.

Now if you want to put a 3.0- 3.5 litre in a passenger car you would be laughed out of the park with 170 Bhp. So the manufacturers know that 200Bhp is enough for a 4 cylinder diesel so they up it to 6 cylinders where 250-300Bhp is common place.

Note that the BMW 335 puts out just under 300 Bhp i think they do a more powerful version in the 5 series.

Site Link

But in saying all that Cummins seems to disagree, 250 Bhp 4 cylinder.

http://www.cmspower.com/Cummins/Marine.asp#m4B250

Even after all i said i still think a 3.0 Diesel in the patrol is a mistake. Yes a mistake not because it is stressed or anything like that i just think soemthing like a 4.2 putting out about 250-280 Bhp would be more suitable. But having a 3.0 in the patrol might be cause to complain it is not a cause for failure.

Nissan had a problem with the early engine and as far as i can see it is fixed. Until i start seeing mass failures of the new engine i see no reason to belive otherwise.

Now Nissans reputation, thats altogether another matter!

Hi Scott,

Couldn't agree more with you! Also agree about Nissan's reputation, while the series III is fine IMHO, Nissan's reputation is shot and now its paying the price. All because it didn't recall the series II like in Europe.

You cannot tell me the series II engine was fine for Aussie conditions with a simple dipstick shortening while the whole engine was replaced elsewhere!!!

Cheers

Captain

Hi Capatain,
That is one thing i will never understand, why did Nissan not recall the Australian motors. In Europe they whiped the ZD30 out all the cars as soon as they knew they had a problem. Their reputaion is intact, but their biggest market, why ignore it?? But they must have had their reasons.

Yest the series III is ok, in fact we might find they have over engineered it and it will be a good motor. Lets put it this way i am going over to Africa next year and i would not take an engine i thought had major problems. Yes i have my doubts but i have many more every day problems to deal with, like punctures fuel, water etc, engine failure is way down on the list. I am not stupid until a few more years pass i will still have my doubts. Thats why i will take my Thuraya phone with me, but i am certain all will be fine. But as captain said they would not have changed the engine in Europe for a dipstick change, they made significant changes to that engine. And until i see real evidence of mass series III failures i will assume all is well.

call me the devils advocate Muzz, but if it wasnt for the Nissans well known problem, if I was the dealer I would say take a walk too? What are they to think if someone has a car WELL inside warranty (50000k's), has an engine failure then the owner pulls it apart and brings it in packed in a cardboard box (slight exageration I know?)
They would be thinking-"why the f..k would anyone in their rite mind do that unless they were trying to hide something"
It would be understandable if they had looked at it first and said it was ok or that they wouldnt cover it, or that they couldnt look at it for a month, but it appears that isnt the case.
Seems to me that Don didnt expect to find anything, or else he intended to pay for it himself? Or, dare I say it, that there IS more to the story?

Having said all that, given that these dogs fall apart all the time, Nissan should just give him a whole new car and a good telling off!!

(hiding round the corner pressing "submit" with the broom stick!)

Why didnt you speak to Nissan first before stripping it?
Being an engineer it would have been obvious that it was serious, and likely catastrophic.
Nissan even have FREE 24 hour Roadside Assistance dont they? How did you get it home?
Surely it is common knowledge about how warrantys work? Sorry to harp on about it but I just cant get my head around that part?