Handyman advice needed
Submitted: Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 22:10
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D-Jack
OK, calling all you cabinet makers/carpenters/timber experts. I am in the planning stages of making a slide in kitchen for my new camper trailer. It will be as long as the trailer – 2 metres, about 37 cm wide (to still allow 6 x 60L tubs in the trailer) and about 45cm tall. It will have various shelving/dividers to act as supports, and will want it strong enough to carry various food/cooking items including cans of baked beans etc.
Question, what timber should I use and what methods should I adopt to ensure it’s strength? It will pull out and be supported by a couple of extendable poles on its end, and slide out with about 30cm remaining on the trailer. I’m thinking about mounting a bracket underneath for another supporting extendable pole ½ way down, although it shouldn’t really need it.
I’m willing to paint or varnish the whole thing, and probably put stainless steel across the top. It will not be left out in the damp or rain, but want it to be slightly
water resistant and I hope the paint should help with that (undercoat and 2 coats of enamel)
At this stage, I’m thinking 19mm ply on the bottom, something similar on the ends but in MDF (easier to screw), maybe 12mm on shelves/vertical supports, and thin plywood on the back, with thin ply on the front doors which will open and swing downward on hinges (magnetic latches). I want to both glue and screw joints, and maybe even partially frame it in
places where higher strength is required.
Anyone got any thoughts or adjustments, because I really don’t know. I want to keep the cost down but am prepared to spend $400 or so all up.
Thanks
D-Jack
Reply By: Willem - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 22:47
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 22:47
D-Jack
All my storage systems are extremely rough. I am no carpenter. But they last
well and I build them to my own designs.
I have over years used MDF for a variety of storage applications in both my truck and recently the trailer. I use 16mm board and screw the corners together with 50mm steel angle brackets. I have used mainly scrap MDF from other house projewcts but occasionally go and buy a full sheet from the hardware store. 12mm ply would also be OK but here where I live a 3/4 sheet costs $52 compared with a full sheet of MDF at $38.
I dont bother painting anything.
My storage stuff in the truck and trailer would not have cost more than $100 all up.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:00
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:00
"I dont bother painting anything."...what about Rosie
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:10
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:10
That was an outside paint job.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:12
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:12
is that why she felt all gritty?
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:23
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:23
Go back to sleep, Richard
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:25
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:25
ok
( FOR THE OTHERS.... but i must have been right ...for a change)
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:28
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:28
oh...go back to sleep?
gee i am now single....(for another five weeks that is)...so i get plenty during the night...no snoring or farting to wake me up....
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:35
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:35
Has she gone to the annual Mafia Convention? Or is it a trial separation?
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:55
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:55
Thanks Willem
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 07:33
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 07:33
unfortunately she bought a return ticket
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Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:01
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:01
10mm marine plywood is ample, even for the top which you will probably laminate, you really only need nails, (ideally use a bradding gun with 40mm brads) but most importantly use epoxy glue such as Epicraft Epiglue.
It would be a good idea to draw it up & make a cutting list, then take the list & the plywood to a kitchen manufacturer (or similar) & ask him to cut it out for you, will cost very little, but it will be
well worth it for the accuracy. (remember when drawing it up to always allow for the ply thickness when planning partitions!)
You can carefully cut out the openings for the doors, or _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx with a jigsaw, starting with the front edge of the jigsaw base plate on the job & gradually angling it back until it sits flat & then just cut out the opening, (practice on an offcut) use the cut out as the door or drawer front itself.
The very shape of it will give you monocoque strength, but remember, use EPOXY glue!
BTW I am a boatbuilder by trade, although now non-practising.
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Follow Up By: cackles - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:23
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:23
Hi shaker,
what is it about epoxy glue that is so important? is it a moisture thing? strength thing? just curious.
cackles
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:27
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:27
Strength ... I have built boats with no fastenings at all.
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Follow Up By: cackles - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:29
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:29
sounds fair enough, I will pass the info on to the minister for maintenance.
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Follow Up By: Road Runner - Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:39
Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 23:39
I would have to agree with Shaker. I think that ply is far superior to MDF in so far as strength is concerned. I also feel that you should not over-engineer your cabinet ... go for 10 or 12 mm as opposed to 19 mm. This will keep the weight down, an important factor with camper trailers.
The suggestion by Shaker to have someone cut it out for you is a good idea but you would need to plan and measure accurately in order to achieve the result without wastage or error. A kitchen
shop would probably cut out your components with a table saw in thirty minutes or so.
A good quality glue as suggested, held in place with brads until dry.
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Follow Up By: Big Woody - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 05:51
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 05:51
I am a carpenter and would back up everything shaker has said above. Definately would use ply above MDF but the only thing I would personally do different to shakers suggestion would be to screw the joins rather than nail. It may not be necessary but I like the extra security.
Brett
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 08:59
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 08:59
if it will get wet use marine ply...the resin bonding agent is waterproof, or if not use ordinary structual ply.
and as above ..dont over engineer ...its
too easy to do and become heavy.....and of course more expensive
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:15
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:15
Im with Woody,
Only other option I would use would be 25 mm RHS and sheet with stainless.
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Follow Up By: Max - Sydney - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 18:14
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 18:14
I am a dreadful carpenter - can't cut straight for sour apples. I usually go to Mr Ply (franchise in NSW & Qld only according to
http://www.misterplywood.com.au/flash/home.asp) with a carefully made cutting list and my jobs actually go together. I'd personally do your job in ply but they cut MDF too.
Certainly glue AND screw. If you don't have a power driver, call off to Bunnings and get a cheapo rechargable drill for $25, a decent Philips it and a big packet of screws for MDF or play. Worth it and mega stronger than nails.
No - no commercial connection with any of the above - just go to these mobs when the managing partner lets me off the leash! :-)
Max
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 19:34
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 19:34
Check with your merchant befor you outlay the cash for "Marine Ply". When I went to buy ply to put a floor in my boat the merchant explained to me that "marine ply had a dress sheet on both sides so as to build pretty sailboats etc:
Waterproof ply is exactly the same with a dress sheet on one side only so is significantly cheaper. A dress coat is the top sheet minus any knot holes etc:
Ian
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:15
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 20:15
waterproof ply is structual ply....and yep marine ply does indeed have a outer veneer that is more pleasing to the eye
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:55
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:55
Thanks for the input Shaker and others.
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Reply By: V8 Troopie - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 00:49
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 00:49
Hi D-Jack,
if the contends are getting on the heavy side you will find the sliding part needs to be reasonably good for such a long drawer. There is a good reason why the commercial
fridge slides have ball slides fitted.
The other thing you did not mention, is this going to be a drawer by itself or does it slide into a box of some kind?
If you want to use screws to hold it together then the cross dividers need to be thick enough to receive them, 12mm min unless you use skinny screws and drill them VERY accurately.
If you have a router or a hand held circular saw you could groove the side panels to receive the cross pieces, glueing only would then be adequate ( try the high strength PVA glue if epoxy is too expensive for you) You will need suitable clamps for glueing. Otherwise you can also use cleats to lock the dividers in place if you lack the above machinery.
if you intend to pull it out by the front door(s?) then a magnetic latch is going to be a PITA, a barrel bolt perhaps might do.
have fun
Klaus
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:56
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:56
Cheers V8 Troopie, duly noted.
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Reply By: Barnesy - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 08:34
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 08:34
I just finished building a kitchen for my CT. dimensions 1750 X 450 X 400 wide. I used 12mm MDF screwed all round for base, back and all shelving with laminated chip board top. I figured that would be the strongest. had to buy 2 sheets and got them cut up by the local cabinet maker. All up cost for me with two large plastic containers, 4 smaller ones and cooker came to about $250. ply could be good and may be a bit lighter too. also have heard about aluminium Q-B-Block. there was a post a few day ago with photos of this stuff and it looked ok.
Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:34
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:34
Sorry to contradict, but MDF is not stronger than plywood & is very dangerous to work with.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 14:46
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 14:46
Hi there D-Jack, mate make sure you use breathing apparatus when using that MDF stuff big time cancer causing (dust particles) bit like aspestis (think thats how you spell it) very dangerous if it gets down to th lungs. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:58
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 21:58
Thanks Stephen, but looking like I will use Ply rather than MDF now, if for no other reason than I don't want cancer (again), and it seems from other replies that it will be lighter and stronger.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 23:05
Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 at 23:05
I have been working with MDF for years. I do wear a mask when working.
Suddenly everyone is an expert on cancer. Its just another piece of misinformation as you would most likely have to work for extended periods without a mask to fall foul of MDF. If it is so dangerous why is it still on the market?
You are more likely to have an accident working with power tools.
aspestis? Try asbestos....lol
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 07:35
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 07:35
it had me fooled willem...hahaha....aspestis....wasnt sure if it was something associated with testicles or ones appetite
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