OT Call Centre data bases
Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:01
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Member - Norm C (QLD)
I had a call today from the RSPCA for fund raising. They identified me by name on
my home phone number (is that Mr C................). I have an unlisted home number. I actually have to pay extra to NOT have my name address and number in the white pages or made available to others by Telstra.
When I asked where she got my number, she responded 'from a data base'. When I asked the source of the data base, she said she didn't know, but that she would remove my name from it.
I've now emailed the RSPCA to try to find the source of their data base. They will have bought it somewhere, so it is likely my details are on many versions of it. I'll be surprised if I get an answer, but you never know. I have no beef with the RSPCA. I generally support their objectives. I just want to know how they got my name and number.
I have an unlisted number as a hang over from my previous employment. There were good security reasons for it at the time. Although the reasons no longer exist, we have chosen to stay unlisted and make our number available to others at our discretion.
I've e-mailed the Australian Teleservices Association and registered for 'Do Not Call' with the Australian Direct Marketing Association. I'm not sure how much this will help and when, as I don't think the official government imposed 'Do Not Call' system is due to start until some time in 2007.
Has anyone else had a similar experience? Does anyone know the source of these data bases?
Reply By: joc45 - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:14
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:14
Hi Norm,
Let's hope you have more luck than those people who were phoned on their silent numbers during an election campaign a while back. Despite a "high-level" Government enquiry into how the silent numbers got onto the database, it came to a dead end, with the public none the wiser.
Gerry
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Doodle - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:15
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:15
Hi Norm,
I used to get telemarketing calls regularly, often at very inconvenient times – just sitting down to dinner etc. I changed to an unlisted number about 18 months ago. When I got a couple of calls, I did the same as you. I insisted on knowing where the caller got my number and which company supplied the data base. I didn’t ever get this information but have not had an unsolicited call for several months now.
Cheers……Doodle
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Reply By: Footloose - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:27
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 18:27
Mate, you think that's crook. I just had a sales bloke drive up my driveway and accost me at tea time. Tring to sell me pix of our property for just a handful of latinum. A bloody BIG handful.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 06:57
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 06:57
Footie.... if I remember you live here on the
Gold Coast don't you? A client of
mine, a widowed retiree, got "sucked in" by a similar thing, bloke sold her a balloon photo of the roof of her house, in a frame for a small fortune! Geeze, it makes me mad that these people have the gall to come up to your front door and try to sell a pic of your own house!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Brian
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:46
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:46
Contact the Australian Law Reform Commission. They are looking into this problem at the moment and welcome submissions (not necessarily complaints).
It basically shows how lame the anti-spam/anti-telemarketing laws are at the moment. The code of conduct only applies to data held by Australian companies.
If you data has gone to India, then you can kiss any hope of EVER having a "private" phone number goodbye (certainly no point of paying Telstra for the "priveledge").
There is a solution in the wind (when I get my ass into gear)..............
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Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:48
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:48
Unlisted numbers literally aren't worth the extra you pay for them... Unless you can gaurantee that every time you fill in an application for any service the provider isn't going to sell your information, you're bang out of luck... Basically as soon as you write it on paper, YOU have made it public information. A friend at Foxtel informed me of this, after I had signed up... Within a few weeks of getting Foxtel on, the phone started ringing off the hook with telemarketers. Since I got the new phone with caller id, I miss most of them... It displays "International caller" and I know no-one overseas atm...
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Reply By: Scrubcat - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:58
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:58
G`day Norm,
I have been informed that one of these mob is "Accountable List Brokers" of
Southport Queensland. Got the info from one of the tele marketers trying to get me to flog raffle tickets for some charity. That is all she could tell me when I asked who supplied the data with my name on it.
I have just done a little investigating and come up with an address and phone No for this mob, it`s ----- 19 Margret st ,
Southport. Qld. 07 55270444 and 0418875770,
I might just give the mobile No a tingle about tea time every now and then.
Cheers
Scrubcat.
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Follow Up By: MartyB - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:30
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:30
OK,now you have me worried. The mobile no you have listed has only one digit different to my mobile no.
If anyone is going to harass this number make sure you have all the digits right.
Marty.
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:39
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:39
LOL
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Follow Up By: Mama June - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 19:01
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 19:01
MartyB
You reminded me of a problem I had about 15 years ago which wasn't funny at the time but I laugh now.
The home number I was using at the time was a digit different to an Adult X Rated video co. One of their catalogues got their phone number wrong and published
mine. I started getting calls till late at night from men wanting to order a video. I only worked out what was happening when I asked one of them men where he got the number from.
I managed to contact the video co. but they couldn't correct the phone number until the next catalogue.
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Follow Up By: MartyB - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:00
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:00
Hi Mama June,
Wrong numbers can be fun.
Years ago our work number was one digit different from a Doctors surgery.
A first we told people the right number, but after a while we "took appointments" must have been interesting when they arrived for their appointment.
Marty.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:16
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:16
I used to work in a place that had a seldom used phone (emergency use only, everything else by the PABX), which was formerly a brothels number.
As the phone was only ever used for outgoing calls, we knew that if it rang it WAS a "wrong number" so we used to answer it "Good afternoon, Vice Squad..."
"click"
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Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:58
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 19:58
Norm,
Have you ever filled out a "FREE" lottery or competition at your local shopping centre? I see people lining up for a chance to win a free car at our local. Little do they know the "lottery" is a cheap and effective means of harvesting thousands of peoples' details for a database which gets sold on.
I had about 2 years of telemarketing-free life until recently. Unfortunately, I decided recently to support the local SES (great bunch of people) in a "raffle". Since then I've had nothing but calls from just about every "charitable" organisation I know. Those b'stards at the SES have sold my details on.
Guess what: They all lose, because I'll not support any of them in the future!!!
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:39
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:39
It isn't the SES's fault. These thing are run by and for the marketers, with some of the proceeds going to the charity to justify their collection of data (have a GOOD look at the terms and conditions on the reverse of the ticket). The Charity gets to have their name in print (good for publicity) and gets some easy money. You get to surrender you privacy forever (that's why it isnt a "blind" entry with numbered tickets only), and you did
sign away that right when you entered.
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 08:43
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 08:43
Thanks for the info Gary. The point that irritates me is that they misled me. By this, I mean the bloke that called introduced himself as "Fred Bloggs, and I'm a volunteer for the SES".
That led me to believe he was one of the hard working members of that association, not a telemarketer. I usually wise up to scams, but this time too late.
In my opinion I was deliberately deceived. And I'm REALLY p*ssed off!
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:06
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:06
Don't get me wrong, they do use "genuine" people on the "shopfront", it's only the people behind it and the motives from them that are suss.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:36
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:36
A mate I used to wheel with works in the Security industry.
About 2-3 yrs ago, he wanted once to do a mail out to companies flogging a new system they had invented/paitented etc..
he made a call to some company asking for all security company email addys and ph #'s and names.
Courier turned up that afternoon with a CD with all he wanted, cost him a few hunge, but he was happy and made a killing on it..
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Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:40
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 20:40
I used to work for the RSPCA. Back then (2000) in SA the database they used was an internally generated one. They garnered names and numbers from their
membership list, previous donors, anyone who had boarded an animal at the shelter or purchased one there and anyone who called and left a number for any reason. They wern't buying lists then but things may have changed.
Pete
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Reply By: Larry01 - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 21:08
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 21:08
1. do not fill in any enteries to win something in a shopping centre your number will end up on a list/lists
2. Do not call list is not currently enforcable in Australia
3. contacting the ATA about do not call list will only get you removed from their members data base (it is a condition of being a member)
4. Silent numbers will not stop unwanted calls as a company will "load" a number range into a auto dialler and will call every number in that range.up to 5 numbers at the same time the first to answer gets the call the remaining 4 calls get dropped and back into the data base for recall
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 21:57
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 21:57
2. do not call list will never be enforcable. Any company that is owned by overseas interests and has your data already will remain free to use/onsell it as they wish (inclusive of Indian data centers). It is outside Australian legislation and boundaries, and is a very legally "grey" area internationally.
Basically if you on their lists now, you are toast...
3. ADMA (Australian Direct Marketing Association) is a voluntary organisation, there is NO compulsion legally to be a member, and therefore NO compulsion to abide by their rules. (slap with a wet fish...).
New laws will only apply to Australian companies using Australian phones. Indian call centers will still be free to call anyway (outside legal juritiction, and already have lists) and also have the benefit of untraceable source numbers ("Overseas Number" on CND enabled phones) so cannot be traced even if the Australian authorities wanted too.
4. This is the area I am working on for a permanant fix..............(stay tuned...)
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:11
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:11
"Any company that is owned by overseas interests and has your data already will remain free to use/onsell it as they wish (inclusive of Indian data centers). It is outside Australian legislation and boundaries, and is a very legally "grey" area internationally."
Incorrect. The Oz company that engages the telemarketing will be responsible to ensure that the telemarketer acts within the Oz legislation. If they fail to they can be held responsible legally.
The DNC legislation will help a little but in its current form amay actually make thing worse.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:40
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:40
"...Any company that is owned by overseas interests..."
"...The Oz company that engages the telemarketing..."
Two totally different legal entities. As it stands there is nothing to stop the Indian branch of of an international company (who "coincidentally" has a branch in Australia) from accessing their international customer database to use in telemarketing...("wasn't the Australian branch that authorised it")
However, if the company is Australian then the new DNC laws will apply even if they use overseas telemarketers.
This is exactly the thing that the ALRC is looking at. The new legislation was a quickly thought up knee-jerk reaction. There ARE measures that could be taken: locally switched numbers with call back facilities (CND enabled), allocated blocks of numbers for telemarketers making it possible for exchanges to block the calls AT THE SOURCE, and several other arrangements that are being looked at.
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:07
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:07
Actually the worst part is that charities, companies doing surverys and political parties are exempt from the legistaliton. So the origional issue re thsi post will remain.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:07
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:07
so you agree, for all intents and purposes, a slap with a wet fish.....
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:42
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:42
Nope, but it sounds like you are so fired up on this issue tha tyou want to win an argument and have the last word....
So go right ahead...
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:26
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:26
I put my time into researching the whole situation and put finger to typewriter with a few observations, concerns and possible solutions (roughly as outlined in my various entries in this thread) and sent them as a formal submission to the Australian Law Reform Commission. (so yes, I have read the propsed legislation, etc, etc, etc.)
My history, and why I am a bit fired up about it...
I got TOTALLY p**sed off with the telemarketers due to that hours I was working. I had to keep my phone on so I could hear it (agency work, variable call recieval times, variable start times, and variable distance from
home), but at the same time had to sleep during the telemarketing "happy hour". I suffered through this for several years before just giving up on a peaceful life with a land line, so I had the line disconnected. IT SHOULD NOT NEED TO HAVE COME TO THIS!!! It is my house and I am entitled to "quiet enjoyment" as the lawyers like to describe it.
NO accommodation by the telemarketing industry is ever considered to allow for peoples lifestyle, all they see is the next sale. I will not ever have another land line for telephone calls, so in my case the arrogance and pig-headed attitude by the so called "responsible" telemarketing industry has met its just deserts. Sayonara....
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Reply By: ozdragon - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 22:02
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 22:02
I have had a silent number for 10 yrs..and have foxtel. Never had a telemarketer call. I think its great.
Peter
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 22:03
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 22:03
ADMA is laughable. I put my name down and ended up with MORE telemarketing than I had ever had before. My interim solution is to deprive them of access (no
home phone).
Companies join ADMA to access the "do not call lists", copy them, and discontinue
membership of ADMA. A nice neatly packaged collection of up to date information on our
population as a gift....how convenient.
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Reply By: joc45 - Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 23:06
Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 at 23:06
On a slightly different tack, when I changed ISPs, to ward off spam, I created one email address for my mail, to be only shared with friends. I created another for giving out when registering on forums, websites, businesses etc. Since then I am constantly spammed on my "secret" email address, and have not had one spam yet on my "spam" address, apart from emails from the
places I registered with.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:02
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:02
I do similar with my Hotmail account, but as an experiment I opened 2 GMAIL accounts and told NOBODY of them.
One has of today (cleared on weekend) 239 SPAM mails, and 36 INBOX mails... So it makes little difference really
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Follow Up By: joc45 - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:49
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:49
I've noticed that a lot of the addresses on my spam are computer-generated; ie, prob not from a real list, but it doesn't explain why I still get zilch on my "spam" email address.
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Reply By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:29
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:29
We have had a silent number for about 18+ years and have only had 1 tele call and that was from the blind assoc some years ago. I asked them where they got my number from, they claimed they weren't sure but buying raffle tickets etc was the main source of info for data bases at that time. We definately find paying the small amount to telstra is
well worth it.
Cheers
D&B
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:15
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:15
The DNC legislation will require the telemarketer to correctly answer your query when you ask where your details came from. An answer such as I dont know will not be sufficient. That way you have a change of deleting your name off the data base creator at source rather than backwards via many steps through an uninterested telemarketer.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:53
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:53
Or the telemarketer can hang up..............
Do you have a call back number for that organization?..........NO ("Overseas" call)
So you call he advertiser, can they take you data off their register? "Yes,certainly, we will just transfer you to our Indian call center..."
Way to much emphasis is being placed on the telemarketers doing the right thing, which in the case of most of them simply isn't going to happen (look at the recent events in India about data being freely bought/sold).
Other issue is the assumption that there is only one "source", WRONG!!!!! The data would have been copied and onsold at the first opportunity, so by the time you have worked your way to the root of one tree, you realise you are standing in a
forrest.
The laws are a slap with a wet fish, absolutely useless................
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:05
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:05
Have a read of the proposed legislation, there are holes in it on both sides but it isnt "slap with a wet fish, absolutely useless".
The really, really ,really bad thing is that compliance will be so hard that it is feared that many companies will stop using telemarketing and go back to armies of foot soldiers intruding in your home via the front door at dinner time.
Yes, the telemarketer can hand up and so could have you....
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:06
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:06
"...that compliance will be so hard..."
Precisely the problem.
So, they won't comply, and become a group of "fly-by-night" operators, disrgarding all legislation/codes of practice, exploiting every loophole they can find, etc... (kinda like we have now...)
This is why it should not be left in the hands of the telemarketers or the companies that employ their services to deal with. It needs to be dealt with at the fundimental telephone network level by the allocation of Australian number blocks for all telemarketing calls to be switched through (sort of like the "1800" numbers working in reverse) so that residents can "opt out" of recieving calls from that range of numbers through their telephone service provider (a function that already exists for the "1900" "adult entertainment" lines).
This then takes any "compliance" issues out of the hands of the telemarketers and companies that employ them. This is all utterly achievable with VOIP technology and also the existing telephone equipment.
International calls can be made to show their phone number origin (or can be forced to send it), prior to being switched into the Australian network at some point so there is more than adequate scope to catch any telemarketing through screening of frequency of calling numbers (basic auditing functions already existing on the equipmet).
We won't get armies of foot soldiers due to cost.
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:47
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:47
There is real concern in the direct marketing industry that this will see many operators leave the industry. They aren't all as you seem to want to paint them.
"This is why it should not be left in the hands of the telemarketers or the companies that employ their services to deal with" It isn't that is why the legisaltion is in place for.
"We won't get armies of foot soldiers due to cost. " Some companies are planning this as you write.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:03
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:03
"...There is real concern in the direct marketing industry that this will see many operators leave the industry...."
Can you hear anyone crying about that? No?, neither can I...............
Please "paint them" as YOU see them for us, disclosing any of your interests in the industry...
"..."This is why it should not be left in the hands of the telemarketers or the companies that employ their services to deal with" It isn't that is why the legisaltion is in place for..."
The fact that they had to face such draconian legislation at all shoud sufficiently answer that one. Self regulation through their (so called) governing body/industry representative, ADMA, was a pitiful digrace. You really expect us to now respect their "honesty" in functioning under the gunshot riddled legislation that is proposed?
"..."We won't get armies of foot soldiers due to cost. " Some companies are planning this as you write...."
A sign on the gate "No Hawkers or Market Researchers. Tresspasses prosecuted", covers you legally. Anyone that tresspasses under those circumstances has just commited a crime (the sign on the gate being the first and only warning legally required). This is a well worn path that the marketeers and courts already know about...the marketeers do avoid it.
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:31
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:31
Disclosure: I have no interests in the telemarketing/direct marketing industry. Have never worked for them and never would. I listened to (stumbled across) an online presentation given by the legal person at the ADMA a few months ago. It was enlightening way of informing myself about the issue.
I just like to see a balanced discussion. It is the way you put your views that most people react to. Emotional ranting soon sees your views dismissed regardless of how valid they are.
PS: I hang up on them just like everyone else. Many blue chip companies Banks, Telcos etc are very sensitive to the image that the Indian call centres and the like give them. Hanging up is a great way to get the message across.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:47
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 13:47
So, let me get this straight, you stumbled across a pro-telemarketing industry website and accepted everything they had to say hook, line and sinker..............
Do a bit more research, contact the ALRC and get a hold of "Issues paper 31" (on CD so you can read it all at your leisure, free, they post it out to you) and have a bit of a squiz at that for a start. Several very good references in the back of it too...This is what all the legal eagles are looking at.
Do you think Little Johnny would do anything (legislation) to significantly affect the viability of an industry, even one with so little public support? Guess who recieves their election donations..............
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Reply By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:58
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:58
So much for 'privacy laws'.
What about emails? We get bleep loads. How do you stop that?
The worst is Jehovah's Witnesses; man, when they turned up the other day while the wife was out and I had one kid on my hip and the other asking "Who's that?" and the dog jumping up on them ( which I didn't call off LOL), I just looked at this teenager in a suit and said "Now is not a good time".
They have to open a gate, pass some other properties before they get to us FFS. Do you think it is politically incorrect to put a sign on the gate that says 'NO bleep INJEHOVAHS!'
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:02
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:02
They actually have a book of "do not calls" and if you ask them not to return they won't. No need to be abusive towards them, because you only ask them once.
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:13
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:13
Mr G in Oz,
I presume you are talking about the chosen ones. Are you the only one that knows about their 'Do not call' book? LOL Shouldn't telling them to not come back 15 times do the same job?
Not abusive, mate. I'm very meek in real life; guess I'll inherit the earth ;-)))
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 07:08
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 07:08
I had many MANY arguments with the JW's quite a few years back when they were building a hall adjacent to our (at the time) house. I asked to be put on the do not call list. I was told it didn't exist. For years I had arguments with them, usually started when they would knock, I would (politely at first) ask them to not bother me, then get heated till the got the idea and left.
We moved to our current house and had a few turn up and again I requested to NOT be bothered. Again I was told that there was no Do Not Call list, so the last time JW's called, an old couple, trying to fdlog me the Watchtower, I asked them if they wanted some of my old copies of Penthouse in return for a small donation.... Disgusted, they asked what my point was... I replied that THEY were trying to coerce me to buy their magazine, I liked to read penthouse but they would never find me knocking on their door trying to sell it to them! It was some time before I heard from them again! They still try though.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:04
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:04
Remember a mates mum chasing them down the road with a garden hose... they never came back... Being nice doesnt work.
Put a sign up in ya garden on the gate, SCUM JW's WILL BE HOSED ON ENTRY... see if they come in.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:49
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 09:49
I think you are all very uncaring of your fellow man!
I look forward to a knock on my door from Jehovah's Witnesses and I consider it my humane duty to invite them in, offer them a cup of tea, (I usually have a beer or glass of wine) and spend as much time as it takes trying to save them from their doomed path of fundamental religion.
These poor souls have been deluded into believing the bible is true in every word and that God has only the welfare of mankind at heart. It is the duty of us all to point out to these deluded individuals the inconsistencies, cruelty and bigotry often portrayed in the book and ask them to rationalise these points. It is vitally important to ensure you set the agenda as to which areas of the bible to discuss in order to prevent them, subconsciously of course, avoiding those "difficult" parts.
Whilst I haven't yet had any total conversions occur in my lounge room (although I shall continue the Good Work with hope and a full heart) I believe I have sown significant seeds of doubt in many a JW and I am optimistic that as time passed and they reflected upon my questioning and argument they _will_ begin to see the light and depart from the path of darkness returning to truth, goodness and redemption.
One can but try – so I commend you all: do not banish them from your door, for they know not what they do, instead do your upmost to convert a Jehovah's Witnesses,
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: REXYSURF - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:21
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:21
HEHEHE
I have a patented way to get rid of the "Seven Day Cyclists" I was getting at least 2 or 3 a month knocking on my door...I got sick of it cause they wouldnt take the hint and espically scince they used to come knocking at abuot 0730 obn a sunday morning....
Now im not exactly a Picasso and Id have a good shot at getting onto the biggest looser so that hopfully will set the scene....
Got "The knock" got out of bed picked uot my misses skimpies G string I could find (she is a size 12 btw) Crammed myself into it went and got a bottle of bundy from the cupboard took a swig and dribbled some down myself lit a smoke & left it hanging out of my mouth then went to the door..."Whatdya want" I snarled at them.....the look on their face was one of mortifiaction....The last i EVER saw of them was their butts as they bailed out of my yard...from then on every time i saw them aproching they would cross to the other side of the street then come back to my side after they were past my house...
Needless to say I coped hell from Lucy over my choise of apparell as they were brand new .......
Maybe this might work ???
FollowupID:
458616
Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:10
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:10
Nice one Rexy,
We had a few SDA's turn up the morning after my 21 st and started talking to dad in the front yard. I had a few (~15 or so) mates sleep over due to drink-drive and distance from home etc, and we ended up bailing dad out by going for a walk (after ROTFL at dad's "predicament"). So out the front door one by one we go...
"Bye Dad"
"see ya, Dad"
"Bye Dad"
"Bye Dad"
"Later"
"Bye Dad"
"Bye Dad"
"Goin' for a walk Dad"
"Bye Dad"
"See ya round"
"Bye Dad"
"Want a paper, Dad?"
"Bye Dad"
"How's the hangover, Dad?"
"Bye Dad"
"Bye Dad"
By about the third or fourth person, Dad got clued up to what we were doing and played along with it.
The look on the SDA's faces was priceless. Never heard from them again.....
FollowupID:
458631
Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 15:35
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 15:35
Once some Baptists came to my door.
I opened it and they started their spiel. (I can't remember their names so will call them Fred and Harry)
"Hi" said the first one "I'm Fred"
The other one then leans in with a well-rehearsed
"And I'm Harry"
And then without thinking I said.....
"And I'M NOT interested" as I closed the door...... then I realized what I had said and thought... hey that's not too bad!!!! pretty funny really!
I patted myself on the back!
FollowupID:
458667
Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 19:47
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 19:47
That's great, Rexy, or should that be Sexysurf LOL
FollowupID:
458702
Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:34
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 20:34
Mike, that is GOLD. LOL
FollowupID:
458712
Reply By: Steve63 - Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:53
Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:53
We have a silent number and an answering machine. The ones that do get our number stop ringing because we never pick up the phone. If you don't talk we don't answer. Everyone that needs to call us knows tthis. Best thing is that it costs them to call as the call was answered. Eventually they get the hint and they drop you off the list because of lack of return. We have not had a call for years.
As for unwanted callers. I just cut them off, tell them I'm not interested and close the door. No discussion entered into. This part is very impowering and I can't wait for door knockers to turn up. Must be a bit twisted I suppose.
Steve
AnswerID:
199693