Nissan Patrol power

Thanks Oldplodder,
Yes the hills I referred to are the long steep inclines from the Coast up to the Table Lands eg Brisbane to Toowomba
Young Bill

Thanks Drinky,
Will look into it, a good tip.
Young Bill

Even the 4.2TD would struggle with that sort of weight I would think.

If I was going to be regularly towing a trailer of that weight, I reckon I'd be looking to go to either a Ford F250 (which has certain issues of it's own, so I wouldn't do that anyway!!!), or perhaps look at the 6.5 Chev donk into the patrol (plenty of stonk on tap then; even at low revs)

Chucky,

I think the 3lt tow limit is 3200kg, so 3tonne is just inside this limit. Having said that I think it would still be a big ask of a 4cyl to tow this for long periods and expect it to last a long time.

Roachie,

I agree that the 4.2TD does struggle with that sort of weight also but at least you could be confident in the 4.2 doing the job as admirably as it could for some length of time.
The turbo bloke I have been to recently up here in Brissy is getting huge torque figures out of the TD6 with a standard Nissan turbo. If you want to have a look at a dyno chart of this, give me an MM and I will try to get it through to you. Once you see this dyno you will change your mind about the 6.5 Chev option, I'm sure. This guy gets somewhere around 118KW and 500nm at the rear wheels. Tourque max's in at 1500-1600rpm (about 75km/hr in 5th). Works out about 17 thousand cheaper than the chev option also LOL!!
Same guy has tuned mine and I am now getting about 125kw at the rear wheels but nowhere near as much torque as one with a standard Nissan turbo. Still impressive to drive though.

Cheers guys,
Trevor.

Hey Trev!!

Don't knock the "Chevyssan". I've had Nissans for 20 years, except for THAT excursion, that momentary lapse of reason, and some silly bugger stole that one, but I wouldn't swap my 6.5 Chev for a 3.0 litre of 4.2 TD for the world. I'd maybe swap for a 'Yota IHDT FE engine though!

My Chev pulls from tickover and keeps pulling. It doesn't have to be wound up the rev band, it just "does it". I can pull a 2 tonne van from a standing start in 2nd gear without slipping the clutch. I use only 2nd, 3rd and 5th when driving without the van.

As we've said before, these "new" diesels aren't "proper" diesels. They're more like petrol engines.

Bilbo

Thanks Chuckie,
My Patrol is manual and is rated to 3200k. Yes I think I probably made a blue and should have bought a 4.2 etc - listened to the wrong experts.
Young Bill

Thanks Teabag,
Yes even though it is rated at 3200 I now think it is straining the friendship to tow near that weight.
Will look into the exhaust and chip a bit further and perhaps see how much it costs to swap to a 4.2
Young Bill

Now there's a thought.
Thanks for the fun.
Young Bill

Thanks Peter for the good advice.
My Patrol is rated for 350k on the towbar and my hitch and ball are also rated 350 so I'm ok there.
Cunninghams Gap is one of the problem spots and I am lucky to make it at all in high range and the car doesn't like 4wd on bitumen.
Seems like I should have bought the 4.2d - Took notice of the wrong "experts".
Nothing like experience to find out the truth.
Young Bill

Thanks Pezza,
Yes you confirm what I thought might be the case about the D-tonic at low revs which is where the problem is mainly.
Couldn't buy the auto as has a lower rated towing capacity.
Definitely now have to look at the options of a different vehicle.
Keep fit
Young Bill

Pezza,

You don't know what yer talking about. As a consequence of having my 100 series TD 'Cruiser stolen, I now have a Nissan with a N/A 6.5 Chev in it. I've towed a 3 tonne van and a 2 tonne van with both.

If I had a choice, and was doing high speed road work rather than bush work (which I do a lot of) I'd choose a TD Landcruiser. My choice of a 6.5 Chev was a" sea change" decision. The Nissan is better in the bush on the rough stuff.

However, both the 1HDTFE and the 6.5 Chev motors beat a 3.0 litre Nissan hands down. However again, the 6.5 Chev doesn't need to have the knackers revved off it to make it move. There's no delay from a standing start, there's no changing down on long hills, which the even the Landcruiser had to do - occasionally.

It's not a question of max torque that a motor delivers, but WHERE in the rev band it is delivered AND how much torque is available under that maximum and at what RPM it is delivered. One can have an engine that delivers more torque than another at a a certain RPM, but what torque number is delivered at less than max torque & at what RPM. That's what's important in a working diesel.

The 3.0 litre Nissan is a classic example of excellent torque figures at high RPM. The Landcruiser is similar but less afflicted. Both are "dead ducks" until the turbo comes in. I couldn't even take off in 2nd gear with my 'Cruiser on its own without slipping the clutch a bit.

AND I've driven and towed with all 4 of 'em - the 1HDTFE Toyota, the 3.0 litre Nissan, the 4.2 Nissan and the Chev. For everyday towing the Chev wins.

But for the NOISE!! The Chev loses badly ;) It's noisy, it's crude, it's thirsty. But it gets the job done without hanging on the gas pedal and waiting, waiting. I abuse it every day. I couldn't do that with either a TD 'Cruiser or a 3.0 Nissan. They'd stall rather than be loaded up.

Bilbo

,,,,,,,,,,,and that's with no electronics, no "chips", no fancy mandrel exhausts,no extractors, no exhaust pyrometers, no mass flow air meters, no turbo, no nothing,,,,,,,,

There's no substitute for "cubes". Simple but effective,,,,,,

Bilbo

Hi Bilbo,
A very detailed answer there mate, but unfortunately all to no avail, as I was comparing a modified intercooled 4.2 Nissan TD, not the 3lt, to the 6.5 chev.
You know the one, the ever reliable, tried and proven, bullet proof, non electronic diesel.
The intercooled 4.2 with a $ 2500 mod plus exhaust ( $3500 all up ) will punch out 462nm ( I'd miscalculated slightly in my above comment )and 155hp. This 462nm is produced at 1600rpm and drops off slightly at 1800rpm and then goes on a gradual down curve from around 2300 rpm.
In comparison the 6.5 N/A puts out 380nm at 2000 rpm and the 6.5 rear mount turbo is at 515nm at 1700 rpm.
Whilst I agree with you on the fact about peak figures not being the important factor and that it is important what the figures are lower in the rpm range and also the part you neglected to mention, but which I'm sure you agree with me on, the smooth torque curve. I dissagree that the 6.5 is so much better in the lower rpm range, I'm not saying it isn't better, but considering the advantage the 4.2 turbo has over the 6.5 n/a to begin with, I doubt if there is any significant difference untill you get to below 1200-1300 rpm.
Now, keeping this in mind, how often would you work an engine under these figures ? If you're doing a lot of slow off road work then it's a simple matter of using low range, if you still do a lot of low range work in heavy off road conditions at under these rpm's then $ 1500 will have you fitted with a set of 3.75 reduction crawler gears.
Admittedly, the 6.5 turbo has 515nm, 40 odd more than the modded 4.2, $24,000 for a 6.5TD conversion or $3500 for the modded 4.2 TD, is 40nm really worth 20 grand ?

My initial reason for buying the 2.8 was to do the 6.5 Turbo conversion, I did about six months worth of research into this, rang and harrassed about 10 different conversion mobs, including Brunswick, around the country, and drove about 5 6.5 and 6.2 chevs in manual and auto version in patrols long before you even contemplated your conversion.
I also spent quite a few years building my own street/strip engines until the last one, which was slightly out of my league, and was built by a race engine builder, about 10 years ago, whilst I was virtually living in his workshop learning every minor detail about my small block 400 which eventually put out 450hp and 470Lbft torque and punted a 2 door monaro with 3.55 gears in street trim down the strip in a tad over 12 secs.
So you see, unfortunately I DO know what I'm talking about.

Avagoodn
Pezza

No ya don't Pezza. Why? 'Cos you've never driven all 4 motors in question.

Why? What diff ratio does a TD42T pull as standard? 4.1? 4.3?

Mine's pulls 3.9 easily and I reckon I could go down to 3.7 without too much trouble. So to cruise at 100 kmh yer TD42T would revving its nads off and mine would be ticking over and still capable of overtaking in 5th gear.

",,,,In comparison the 6.5 N/A puts out 380nm at 2000 rpm,,,,,,,,".

Wrong. Try 380Nm at 1600 rpm.

",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Now, keeping this in mind, how often would you work an engine under these figures ? If you're doing a lot of slow off road work then it's a simple matter of using low range, if you still do a lot of low range work in heavy off road conditions at under these rpm's then $ 1500 will have you fitted with a set of 3.75 reduction crawler gears.,,,,,,,,,"

I do a lot of slow off road work. I'm a prospector. 90% of what I do is slow offroad work pulling a 2 tonne van through creeks.

",,,,,,,,,,,,,,then $ 1500 will have you fitted with a set of 3.75 reduction crawler gears,,,,,,,,,,,,."

Don't need 'em. In fact I've never even used low range since this truck was converted. Never needed to.

",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I also spent quite a few years building my own street/strip engines until the last one, which was slightly out of my league, and was built by a race engine builder, about 10 years ago, whilst I was virtually living in his workshop learning every minor detail about my small block 400 which eventually put out 450hp and 470Lbft torque and punted a 2 door monaro with 3.55 gears in street trim down the strip in a tad over 12 secs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

Me? 20 years as diesel mechanic. 7 years building race engines for the Isle of man TT races. Race mechanic in the UK and Europe. Raced Mini's for 5 years. Driven almost everything from a Ferrari to 280 tonne Haulpak. Oh yes - and a Nissan Skyline with 725 bhp at the back wheels.

BTW - my sons Nissan Skyline did 12.7 secs at the Quit Motorplex. So "A tad over 12 secs" for that size of engine isn't fast,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. It musta been standard eh?

",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So you see, unfortunately I DO know what I'm talking about.,,,,,,,,"

I can see,,,,,, but you still haven't driven one have you?

Bilbo

The 100 series is the only one I haven't driven.

As I said, I did my homework, you obviously didn't, the 4.2 GU TD runs 3.9's, 2150rpm at 100k's, I wouldn't classify that as "revving its nads off" would you ?
No problems overtaking in fifth with 40-60nm (depends on who you believe) more than the 6.5 n/a on tap.

I doubt you do need low range or crawler gears doing what you are doing, but my point is that I would rather spend $1500 on crawler gears than 20 plus grand on a conversion to do the same job.

Ok, so you have spent some years as a race engine mechanic, yes you know what you are talking about when it comes to moving torque curves around in the rev range to suit different curcumstances, I'm not denying that, never have, as I also have never bagged your mechanical knowledge.
I also didn't say that I had the fastest car around,I don't normally mention things like that, I know what I can and can't do and don't need to brag about it, I simply mentioned the munro to give you an idea that I'm not completely mechanically illiterate.
I did mention that it was 10 years ago, ( it was actually closer to 13 ) for that time period it was a reasonably quick street car, I don't recall seeing too many 12 second skylines around at that time,(that's not to say that they weren't there.)
other than those two brothers ( can't recall their name) from sydney in the 3lt drag car.

"I can see,,,,,, but you still haven't driven one have you?"

So you're either calling me a liar or didn't read my post correctly ?

Look Bilbo, this conversation is going nowwhere, except that we are hijacking someone elses thread, my appologies Bill, I can understand you fighting tooth and nail justifying your decision in spending over 20 grand on a conversion, most people do the same thing after spending 1/10th of that on a fridge let alone 20 grand. As long as YOU'RE happy with your decision that's all that really matters isn't it ?
I was simply giving some facts and figures on a 4.2 after spending only 5 grand ( 2 for the mod, 1 for the exhaust and 1.5 for the crawler gears ) as opposed to 20 grand on a conversion, ultimately people will make up ther own minds on which suits them better.

Avagoodn
Pezza

G'day Pezza,
No I didn't think you hijacked the site - found your info bloody interesting after what in my ignorance I was sold.
Thanks again,
Bill

G'day to you to Bilbo,
Same comments apply - have appreciated both of your comment and info.
Thanks again,
Bill

Yes Pezza, I'm happy with it. The GU cost me $9k to buy and $20K to convert, Plus an extra $6k on other bits.

So I've got a truck that goes like a IHDTFE Toyota and is tough as a tank that dosen't break IFS, diffs or gearboxes.

My situation was different to most others that convert. I didn't have a $35k to $40K investment in the truck to start with. I bought it with a blown engine for $9k. I knew what I was getting and what I was spending. If I'd have paid $35K to $40k for new or near new GU and then had to spend another $5k to get it to perform like Chev or even come close to a Toyota, then I'd be a bit bleep off.

Have you DRIVEN one? Have you driven one from Perth to Laverton, Perth to Meeka, Perth to Mt Newman and on into the bush, fully loaded and pulling 2 tonnes? That's driving it. Not just a quick squirt down the road.

I'll challenge anyone to call me and put thier modded Patrol, fully loaded and pulling 2 tonnes against the Chev in a similar state. I'm not looking at a drag race. I'm looking at long drive, towing up hill and down dale. Say Perth suburbs to Kal.

As for not having to change down when overtaking with a TD42 or a TD42t or having to drop gears to get up hills,,,,,,,,,,,,I've driven 'em and you have to drop a cog regularly. The trips that I've done with the Chev have made a very noticeable dent in the number of times I have had to drop a cog, even compared to my 100 turbo diesel "Cruiser. The "Cruiser was faster and more responsive when the revs were up and the turbo was working, yes, but it wouldn't PULL like the Chev and pull all day. A TD42T would be no different to the "Cruiser except less responsive.

I've got a lot of time for Nissans. Anyone that reads me on this forum knows that. But it's time that Nissan got thier ducks in a row and caught up with Toyota and it's Turbo diesel Landcruiser engine.

Bolting bits onto a TD42 is never gonna make it a turbo diesel Landcruiser. Putting a 6.5 litre Chev in a Nissan won't make it a turbo diesel Landcruiser either. I know that. But for what I do, the Nissan with the Chev is better.

So I'm happy.

Thanks for the discussion, take it easy.

Bilbo

Thanks very much Robin,
Looks like everyone in agreement and the car is not really up to this load even though specs say it is.
Interesting about the dtronic - it is what I suspected after looking at the graphs they sent me. Not suitable to fix my problem.
Young Bill

Thanks again Robin,
Have just noticed in the Patrol manual a small comment to engage 4L when taking off on slopes when towing.
I wish they would tell you this before you buy the car.
Not sure which way I'll go now.
Have had this car outfitted with all my gear - steel bullbar, winch, roof rack modified to fit, anderson plug and etc. etc. so will cost a lot to redo in another car.
Regards,
Bill