advice to a newwy, please

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:41

ThreadID: 38805 Views:5177 Replies:8 FollowUps:11

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SKI'er

We are "babies" to all this. Please assume a knowledge base of Zip when replying

Our first van we be received in about 10 days. A Coromal Excel 512, It weighs 1120kg unladen but has a tow ball weight approaching 150kg. The latter is something we were not told about by the dealer at the time of ordering.

Question 1 Our Tow vehicle. We run a 1993 V6 auto 3 litre petrol Pathfinder TI with 180,000 on the clock. It still performs well but it is a thirsty beast even without a load. We intend to do some long trips along the bitumen. Are we expecting too much from the Pathy. Should we fit a transmission oil cooler ?

Question 2 The Pathy already has a HaymanReese tow bar fitted rated at 1500kg We have had a "Tekonsha" electric brake contraption fitted to the Pathy. From advice picked up from this forum we intend to fit a HaymanReese load leveller to try to accommodate the heavier caravan ball weight that the Pathy is rated for. Will this work ? We hope so as a new tow vehicle wasn't a consideration but realise that times change with events.

This leads to another (ours) uncertainty There are 2 models of HR loadlevellers
model 79504 rated at 550lb which retails for $649 on the Far NSW North Coast and
model 76504 rated at 750lb which retails for $660

The price difference is negligible. Do I go with the bigger one now just in case we go bigger in the future or am I getting into trouble by having too much lift for the present arrangement.

Thanks in anticipation
SKI'er

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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:51

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 09:51

Maybe check out the Pathfinder forum for answers.
www.pcoa.org.au/

"we intend to fit a HaymanReese load leveller to try to accommodate the heavier caravan ball weight that the Pathy is rated for"

Do load levellers change the towball weight rating? I didnt think they did.

AnswerID: 200824

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 18:43

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 18:43

Thank you Truckster for your input. Went through the process of registering with the Pathfinder group today after your message. Thanks again.

SKI'er

FollowupID: 460071

Reply By: Redback - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:05

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:05

First thing to know is that the tow hitch rating has nothing to do with the vehicles tow rating.

(ie) if your car is fitted with a hayman towbar that has a rating of 2500kg but the vehicle manufacturer only rates the car at 1500kg that doesn't mean you can tow anything weighing 2500kg, you can still only tow something up to 1500kg.

Check the ball weight of the car, to make sure it will handle the 150kg ball weight of your new van when loaded, and is this ball weight the max ball weight or what it is unloaded.

Don't buy any devices untill you check that your car can tow this van legally.

Baz.

AnswerID: 200826

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 18:41

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 18:41

Thank you Baz for the reply. The Pathy is rated to tow 1500kg and also has a HaymanReese tow bar rated at 1500kg. As the caravan is only 1120 kg we feel that we are OK on this front. I

It is the particularly low 120kg tow ball weight of the Pathy that is causing us concerns. We went into the dealer with our specs out in the open 1500kg/120kg -but the sale must have got in his eyes because he never mentioned the 150kg of tow ball weight that the van had (unladen) just saying the Pathy would cope withit easy.

We thought that a load leveller would suffice by spreading the ball weight towards th front wheels. Back to the draing boards or the cheque book again Thanks again for your input.

SKI'er

FollowupID: 460070

Follow Up By: Tim HJ61 (WA) - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 00:31

Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 00:31

SKI'er,

"We went into the dealer with our specs out in the open 1500kg/120kg -but the sale must have got in his eyes because he never mentioned the 150kg of tow ball weight that the van had (unladen) just saying the Pathy would cope withit easy."

There's a phrase in consumer protection law that talks about products needing to be 'fit for purpose'. If you've laid your specifications out for them to see, it's their job to notice such details and how it relates to their vans so it can be fit for purpose. It's all very nice to wave you off with a "Pathy would cope withit easy" Arthur Daly phrase, but it's not him stuck with a broken vehicle somewhere very lonely.

At least they could have told you about the discrepency, and then gone into great details - such as the sensible suggestions given in this thread - of how to overcome the problem. I suspect there is a fair bit of leeway in towing specs anyway, and there are several discussions on here about this topic - but it really annoys me when you do the right thing and they just 'overlook' it.

Tim

FollowupID: 460137

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:12

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:12

Thanks Tim for your input,

We feel well done (like the dinner) but our choices are limited. We could fight with the dealer about what we said and what he sold us but that wouldn't get us the van we have waited 5 months and allow us to begin our adventures.

We have decided to stay with the Pathy for an evaluation period and fit the smaller of the Hayman Reece tow hitches and if the Pathy performs OK with the van up hills etc... we the transmission oilcooler and perhaps some Polyaire bags

Thats our cheap fix scenario and some of the gizmo's will be transferable to any new tow vehicle.. We still doubt that the Pathy would be insurance compliant so its back to the cheque book for a newer tow vehicle in due course. Living up to my adopted philosophy SKI

Thanks for your comments.
SKI'er Ron

FollowupID: 460434

Reply By: HGMonaro - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:07

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:07

"yes" to the transmission cooler

AnswerID: 200827

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 19:08

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 19:08

Thank you HGMonaro,

We will put the transmission cooler on early or just as soon as we know that the Pathy will cope or can be made to cope with the tow ball weight.
The lady boss saw a Pajero today in town with a 4 sale sign on it - she liked the look - pity she didn't get the phone number -but EO cannot help me with that problem.

Thanks again
SKI'er

FollowupID: 460078

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 21:00

Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 21:00

Hi SKI'er,

I was actually pretty impressed with the 94 Pathy I had from new. It towed a fairly loaded tradesman's trailer with ease as long as I kept the revs up. Even managing to drag the trailer all the way up the OTL in Cape York. Admittedly it did not have 150kg ball weight but it would have went close to the 1120kg you're talking about.

I wonder how easy it would be to relocate a spare on your new van to the absolute rear of the van to try and help remove some of the ball weight?? or move the water tank back a little??? This may be a cheaper option as the power in the car would probably cope with the weight of the trailer (Ultimately you should get the answer for this by driving a while with the setup).

Tranny cooler most desirable if you plan to keep the car and van as a permanent setup.

Cheers,
Trevor.

AnswerID: 200949

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:22

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:22

Thanks Trevor R for your input,

We are pretty much going as you suggest. Try the Pathy as is for our delivery run of about 35km back to Ballina. Then an Opposite Lock - Ballina, technician offered to pop around to our place to set up the electric brakes to his liking and evaluate which Hayman Reese load leveller to fit, Then if the Pathy works OK up hills etc. its the transmission oil cooler and pefhaps Polyaire bags always mindful that any extra expense may still be towards an insurance non compliant set-up.

Longer short term may be to buy a more appropriate tow vehicle.

Thanks for your help

SKI'er Ron

FollowupID: 460443

Reply By: arewelost - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 00:11

Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 00:11

hi SKI'er
in perth we have a vehicle technical section its part of the vehicle licensing centres this department can give you all the information required to travel safely and within the law. As we all know when it turns pear shape the insurance companies walk away and look for any excuse not to pay out .
cheers steve

AnswerID: 200965

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:37

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:37

Hi arewelost,

Maybe we have the same in NSW I was too naive to know and simply went with the dealers assurances. The whole sage could have been circumvented if Coromal published the ball weight on its glossies. It wants to tell you everything else length height, tare weight etc. Maybe they know that their product is a heavy weight in the tow ball weight dept. and don't see it as a sales advantage.

PS love the name... we intend to be quite a lot of it very soon.

SKI'er Ron

FollowupID: 460451

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 08:16

Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 08:16

Having 150kg over the ball is a delema and even more so when you start loading the van, the other thing to consider is that if you put a van on and your at the max ball weight, this also affects how much you can carry in the cargo area and also affects how many passengers your allowd as well.

(eg) my 4B has a max tow capacity of 3500kg and max ball weight of 300kg, but the closer i get to the max tow weights the less i can carry in the cargo section.

If i tow at the max weight, (which i would never do unless it was an emergancy) i'm only allowd 100kg in the cargo section and 1 passenger.

See where i'm going here.

You may have to change vehicles if you can't lower that ball weight, i'm not saying the Pathy can't handle the weight, but the 120kg ball weight max is probably like that for a good reason, (ie) too much stress in the long term for the car and a weight balance between what the car weighs and what your towing weighs.

Good luck hope everything works out, and let us all know how it pans out.

Baz.

AnswerID: 200980

Reply By: Red Patrol - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 09:27

Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 09:27

Hi, I would also look at getting polyair or similar bags in the rear of your Pathy. I towed a lighter camper with a GQ and did the load leveller etc but also really needed the polyairs which I now have.
Steve

AnswerID: 200991

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:29

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:29

Thanks Red Patrol for your suggestion,

Went into Opposite Lock yesterday and saw these ingenious little characters. We are going to run the Pathy as is for a while after fitting the smaller of the 2 load levellers and see how the old girl attacks hills with a load etc. If thats OK and we can achieve "insurance compliant" we will do the transmission cooler and the Polyaire Bags. If not its bigger attack on the cheque book for a more appropriate tow vehicle.

Thanks again
SKI'er Ron

FollowupID: 460445

Reply By: Keith_A (Qld) - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 11:23

Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 11:23

The down weight on the ball has an interesting twist.
For our Patrol, the downweight is rated assuming you have 3 adults in the rear seats, and the back is fully loaded.
SO - if there are no passengers in the rear seats, and or the rear cargo space is not fully loaded, the downweight on the ball can be increased (provided the towar is rated to carry the increase). For the Patrol, if I remember correctly, Nissan confirm the rating increased from 250 kgs to 350kgs downweight.
I researched this a while back, and found it on the NISSAN site.

Well worth looking into, if this is your main concern......................Keith

AnswerID: 201012

Follow Up By: SKI'er - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:48

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 11:48

thanks Keith A for your input,

We never realised that there were so many variables. I will contact Nissan and ask. In the end it seems to be the insurance companies that determine the tune and we pay their premium and dance as directed..

We are reconciled to the "maybe a more appropriate tow vehicle" in the longer term. Until then we are going to take on board all of the comments from this forum and those from the Pathfinder Owners Club which another posting put us on to. Basically "suck it (the Pathy) and see."

Everybody has been very helpful.. Thanks again
SKI'er Ron

FollowupID: 460455

Follow Up By: bob&loz - Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 22:17

Friday, Oct 27, 2006 at 22:17

from nissan site

Diesel Model
Tow ball download / Vehicle mass
50kg GVM (All variants)
100kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 70kg
150kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 130kg
200kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 200kg
250kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 270kg
300kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 350kg
bob

FollowupID: 460630