hydrogen fuel economy device

Check out the Joe Cell http://www.joecell.com.au/index.htm l

It is not designed to run 100% on H, only to subsidize the fuel with whatever H is available which is determined by how much power is made/taken from the alternator. I have read on the net (give me a break on the net thing but thats where people discuss these things!) of a guy in aust who has one in the boot, recons he does see a clear improvement. Also I knew of a guy in QLD who ran a large chevy engine on pure H from rechargeable batts he charged overnight. So it can work in full, but does it work in the subsisizing of fuel.

Hydrogen has less "bang for the buck" (joules/mole) than hydrocarbons when burned.

You need to actually define what you mean by, "...recons he does see a clear improvement...". Improvement in what? Power? Fuel efficiency?

Generally these hydrogen reciprocating engines (BMW etc) use heaps more fuel than an equivalent petrol/diesel/LPG engine and produce substantially less power/torque from capacity engines that are typically 30-50% larger than and equivalent hydrocarbon engines. Fuel cell technology is getting there, but will never be viable with hydrogen as the primary energy source. Hydrogen has distinct handling difficulties in transport and transfer from one chamber to another. It is also one of the less energy efficient in its production (large losses withing the manufacturing process). It is not going to be "The Winner".

Vegetable oil/ethanol/methanol/CNG/ LPG is a far more promising medium, whether by direct conversion to electricity via fuel cells or direct internal combustion engines, or indirectly via alternator/storage medium.

There was a post where the guy wanted to know how he could hook up a battery charger from his inverter to charge the battery running the invervter.

Wish I knew how that worked

Glenn.

Come to think of it, when Joh Bjelke was in power, he backed a water-powered car venture.
Pity he's dead now, so we'll never know how it worked. All that technology lost forever, just when we really need it.....

Energy released = energy used - losses (heat)

Anyone that has actually done the eletrolysis of H2O in chemistry realises that the water also gets hot, this is lost energy. The wires get hot, this is lost energy. You cant get all the gas, this is lot energy. You have to find a way to compress the gas, this is lost energy. Then you add a similar amount of losses to the usage of the hydrogen, more losses. Et cetera..... None of this energy is recoverable.

You need something that needs minimal refinement, is easy to handle at room temperature, is simple to convert to energy (work), and is inexpensive to convert to energy.

I think that was the second law of thermodynamics.

My physics teacher once expressed them as:

1. You can't win
2. You can't break even
3. You can't get out of the game

Pete

Actually you could be talking about coal gas trucks? I have not heard about hydrogen cars in WW2 but then again I have never really read about it.

Look it up. Even the taxis had big gas balloons on the top of em , incredible.

Yeah I remember seeing that once, a massive balloon on the roof. I was thinking in Melbourne they used to get coal which had not combusted properly, heat it up and the gas would be fed directly to the engine. Apparently around a bag of coal would get a truck around all day.

F'loosie, you don't mean acetylene do you? Gas producers were towed behind some cars I think.

no, you don't. Have a look here. Site Link

Hi thanks mate, I will read up. I actually dont believe in hydrogen cars and think the problems with trying to spread the stuff around are just too big. I think a far better idea other than inefficient hydrogen powered cars and fuel cells is plain old electric cars. Some amazing ground is being broken as we speak in nano technology batteries and carbon cells and bucky balls and all that amazing stuff, and currently there is only one problem to solve with electric cars, and thats storage. Once that is solved its open slather and power generation will be the only other issue. So my money says hydrogen will never work and that electric cars are the way to go. Hydrogen = expensive fuel cells. Electric motors = 1x moving part!