Servicing Fiasco
Submitted: Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 11:42
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cookie
My Mitsubishi Challenger had a minor oil leak from the head gasket which was leaking maybe 4 or 5 drops a day, just enough to make a mess on the concrete. The engine was running faultlessly otherwise and I made the call to put the vehicle to replace both head gaskets at a mitsubishi dealer who shall remain nameless at this stage.
They removed the heads, had them tested, put the engine back together and found it wasn't running "right". To cut a long story short they spent about 8 weeks trying to figure out what the problem was, removing the heads a further 2 times. At which stage they gave up and sent the car to a respected local engine builder who found for a start they had the plug leads on the wrong way. He then ran all manner of tests to find that there was 4 bent valves from them incorrectly setting the timing and few other minor problems. The engine is now apparently running as good as new.
Now the Mitsubishi dealer has been reasonably helpful despite being incompetent. They paid for a 4wd hire vehicle for a trip we had planned for several months.
My question is what are my rights in claiming compensation for their incompetence and loss of my vehicle for 10 weeks. They had stated after their first attempt that I wouldn't be liable for any further costs but I feel almost I shouldn't have to pay any cost but I don't know if I have a leg to stand on. The original quote was for around $2500, Mitsubishi haven't advised me yet what the final bill will be.
Any thoughts? Should I be threatening to send a letter to the local paper? I have lodged an official complaint with Mitsubishi Australia which I copied to the local dealer with little results so far.
Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 13:02
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 13:02
I would think there is not much you can do. The dealer hasn't charged you for the extra time and he has provided you with a loan vehicle. Not sure if the whole story is here. Strange that you would replace two head gaskets because they were leaking oil. Oil usually leaks from other
places. Head gaskets usually blow out.
Who diagnosed thatb the oil leak was head gaskets? you or the dealer. 8 weeks to sort it out seems a long time. As I said something just doesn't gell.
AnswerID:
202524
Follow Up By: cookie - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 14:08
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 14:08
Yeah there is a whole lot more detail to the story but I would need 3 pages.
The diagnosis was a debacle in itself. I had made my own assesment and then took it to the mitsubishi dealer who advised the oil was leaking from the lower sump pan and which I took at their word and booked it in to be repaired. In the mean time I had another look at it and was sure the oil was coming from higher on the motor and advised them when I took the vehicle in and they then washed down the motor and advised the oil was leaking from the head gasket and sump pan. Sounded a bit suss to me to I took the vehicle back and took it to another repairer who also advised oil was leaking from the head gasket, no mention of the sump pan.
I kept driving the vehicle for another month or so weighing up my options before I decided to go ahead with having the head gaskets replaced. I have the complete service records since new and there is mention of a minor oil weap from the left head gasket at rear since 50000k's so it seemed to be that this had just got worse over time(now 150000). Only one was leaking but I was advised if doing one it would only be a further small cost to do both which seemed sensible to me.
It only took them one week to do the initial repair at which point they advised me the engine had a funny ticking noise that wasn't there before the repair. They siad they would fix it before returning the vehicle to me. They thought it might be lifters so pulled the top of the motor off again to no avail. They consulted the local engine builder who did the final repair and he advised they should re-check the timing which they did with no change and then they decided to the remove the heads again to check for valve damage. Still didn't find anything and had to wait another week for a gasket kit from eastern states. Put it back together with same noise and they had some hunch it was the camshaft pulleys. Who knows why, they siad they had a vehicle with a similiar noise which they fixed by replacing the pulleys. Had to wait 2 weeks for one of these to come from Japan. Once it arrived they decided it was too hard and gave the car to the local engine builder, who has now repaired the engine with the diagnosis given in initial post. The engine builder didn't even use the new cam pulley's as there was nothing wrong with the old ones.
My guess is in there first attempt mitsubishi set the timing incorrectly and bent valves and that's been the problem all along. The engine builder said something about because of the 7mm valve stems it wasn't immediatly obvious they were bent.
FollowupID:
462058
Reply By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 13:27
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 13:27
I would be surprised if they charged you at all after their fiasco.....maybe just wait and see first.
If you have the car fixed for nothing, even though you had to wait 8 weeks, it's probably good value :-) 8 weeks x $300/week = free job. All's square.
Andrew
AnswerID:
202538
Follow Up By: cookie - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 14:15
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 14:15
Yeah I would be relatively happy if the Mitsubishi dealer is willing to forgoe their fee for the inconvenience caused, which they still may. I just wondered if they don't do I have any grounds to refuse payment or is it a matter of a legal challenge or threatening to bad mouth them to all and sundry.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:14
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:14
I would guess that you would at the very least need to have tangible costs ie receipts, etc not just estimates of potential losses.
I would also be looking at what they think of the cost arrangements first, not threatening action yet, not implying anything of a negative nature, until at least they have had a chance to deal with the situation. By all means, state facts throughout any conversation, and don't allow them to push the decision back onto you until you are happy with the outcome....
Good Luck. Sometimes you may be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.
Andrew
FollowupID:
462112
Reply By: _gmd_pps - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 15:34
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 15:34
don't discuss in public, don't go to press or anything until everything is settled ..
if you badmouth them before you actually have paid anything and settled the matter you give them good grounds to sue the cr@p out of you ... I would ...
If you took posession of the vehicle then you are in the better position .. You are NOT entitled for damages which have not occured ... unless you had taken a rental car and paid yourself you have suffered inconvenience but not damage .. they provided a car for the trip .. so what is your tengible loss ? only that can be claimed ...
The dealer is entitled for repair cost for the two head gaskets and the sump because this is what you agreed to ... be careful in trying to make money out of such a situation .. it can backfire .. and probably will ..
good luck
gmd
AnswerID:
202564
Follow Up By: cookie - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:32
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:32
Bad mouthing may be the wrong description but if I don't say anything that is not factual how can I be sued? The facts are they have had my vehicle for 10 weeks for what was meant to be a one week repair. That can't be disputed. Anyway you look at that's bad service and I can't see any problem broadcasting that. I can cop the waiting for parts etc but when their incompetance seems to be the cause am I not entitled to some compensation for being without a vehicle for 10 weeks, at least the nine weeks extra.
In any case I'm going to wait and see what they say which why I haven't mentioned their name but I'm just curious what my rights are to be compensated for loss of vehicle. I'm not trying to make money out of the situation. I understand what you are saying about tangilble losses which have been little because I've been able to get lifts to work etc but what is the cost of this inconvenience and not being able to go 4wdriving on the weekend etc.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:53
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 16:53
cookie,
I feel with you .. I would be furious ... (but in the end it does not surprise me)
No criticism about your feelings or intentions .. just some facts ...
"Badmouthing" is the wrong word then, but actively persuing to damage a businesses reputation as long as they have not finalised the matter is not good either ... when they take you for a ride ..
well by all means .. but I only stated what the law would tell you ... you can not claim intengible losses only actual damage ...
with cars you may be able to get damages awarded for reduced resell value in case of an accident or other negligent situations but only when the car is resonably new and the damage is thought to be detremental to the value (indepent evaluation required) ... so just a heads up .. thats it .. don't get frustrated any further ...
good luck
gmd
AnswerID:
202588
Follow Up By: cookie - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 18:10
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 18:10
Well I think I have been taken for a ride really, only in that they weren't capable of fixing the problem and couldn't work out a fairly basic problem that they caused in 8 weeks, ordering parts that there was nothing wrong with, and in the end gave it to an engine builder who fixed their mistakes in around a week. Like I said if they were doing the job properly and had to wait for parts etc then I would be annoyed but would accept it.
You've answered my question though, basically legally I could only claim tangible losses. So there is no legal compensation for the inconvenience?
I past the point of frustation at about week 4. The reality is we have a 2nd car and I have had access to a work 4wd on the weekends and I just wanted to know my rights were. So my only bargaining power "if" they don't offer some compensation is to threaten passing on my experience to anyone who cares to listen.
FollowupID:
462149
Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 18:17
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 18:17
Threatening is the wrong word again ...
You can refuse the payment and can offer a settlement .. lets say 30%
of their invoice and then you bargain to max 60% .. if they are not happy
let them take the first legal step ... there is no compensation for inconvenience
or stupidity on their end .. unfortunatly not ....
you need to stay in control and get away from emotional or frustrated language no matter how angry and agitated you are ...
good luck
gmd
FollowupID:
462154
Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 17:33
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 17:33
Sounds like to me they had a first year apprentice doing it with out any guidance, bent valves ??? timing cogs out of whack ??? took an engine builder to reconize the problems, all I can say is thank god the engine builder looked at it and got it right, 10 weeks youve got to be kidding, I would be more than bleep off, and so they should have offered you a bloody car for your hassles, at least they did that, I bet nissan wouldnt or even toyota for that matter. As said above keep your cool (very hard to do ) and see where the outcome will lead you, hope fully all ok and not out of pocket too much. Keep us informed. Regards Steve M
AnswerID:
202600
Reply By: Member - Garth J (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 19:03
Thursday, Nov 02, 2006 at 19:03
Cookie,
Just stick to the facts when you're dealing with them.
Mitsubishi Australia will probably refer you back to the dealer as
well but they will be in background communication with them.
They will possibly use words to the effect of "it's your car, your dealer so sort it out with them." This is my experience
And as I did once when I had a major pricing hassle after a 40,000k service
ask them to.........
"Please Consider"
as their advertising catchcry once stated.
Cheers
Garth
AnswerID:
202637
Reply By: cookie - Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 13:14
Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 13:14
Got the car back yesterday and paid the original repair amount. The weren't prepared to offer any further compensation advising me that they had received a bill for $2800 from the engine builder which is irrelevant to me really as it was there own incompetence which caused them to have to go to the engine builder.
They also advised the engine builder had fitted all new lifters (24) and some other worn components making the top of the motor almost brand new out of goodwill for the inconvenience caused and that they had paid for the hire car for our trip. The engine is definitely in a better state than what I gave it too them, it's running very sweetly now, so overall I feel slightly annoyed but happy knowing the engine has been fully checked over and the top end basically reconditioned, including timing belt, new tensioner and pulley. They did also wash and vaccum the car. :-)
AnswerID:
202810
Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 14:10
Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 14:10
I think you both did the right thing
good luck with the engine
gmd
FollowupID:
462388
Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 15:50
Friday, Nov 03, 2006 at 15:50
By the sounds of it you are in WA, if so I'd almost bet I know which dealer it is, have read several stories reagarding challenger repairs on local forums from one particular dealer....
First thing, why the hell didn't they repair it at 50k under warranty!? Surely if there was a head gasket problem at 50k it should have been repaird, bloody hell I would have made them do it!
Secondly, a rental car for me would not have done it, I havnt' spent all my time bloody sweat and tears getting my car "just right" to go and drive a stock rental for my holiday, bloody hell.
Nah, give it to them, if it's the mob I'm thinking about they deserve it because they obviously don't learn lessons....
AnswerID:
202843