tree huggers hijack logging truck

Agreed, Norm.
Sometimes they are disrupting the daily lives of people slaughtering whales in the name of 'scientific research'.

Also agree Norm. Many over the years have shown they hate greenies. The extreme greenies can be irritating sometimes but a lot less annoying than the other extreme of cutting everything down for the benefit of next years bottom line.

Stopping logging is giving life to everybody who visits native forests.

Norm you obviosly now nothing about the logging and mining on Fraser Island, The logging was sustained for over a hundred years and they never cut the same place twice and you only have to look at the areas that were mined to see how the vegetation is so much better than what was there before it was started.I say open season on Greenies and tree huggers but have a bag limit, we don't want to spoil the sport in the first season.

RosscoH,

Vegetation better after it's logged? Interesting theory.

Maybe that 1000 year old forest in Tassie will look better after it's cleared. Those are some pretty rare woodchips. Some hate greenies, well mate, many hate rednecks too.

Barnesy, learn to read, I said the vegetation was better where the sand mining had been than what was cleared to do the mining, and as far as the logging goes none of it was clearfelled only the biggest trees were taken ,so in actual fact they were only thinning the forest and that is what is called sustainable logging. Go and have a look at Fraser Island now, there are a lot of big dead trees that will fuel a good fire and wipe out everything.

What would have happened after the biggest trees had been removed? Would they have gone to smaller ones? No worries, they'll grow back in 500 years or so. There's more to forests than simply a source of money.

Haven't we removed enough of our native bush over the last 200 years? Something like 98%. Lets keep that remaining 2% as it is please.

Look at it this way, truckys primary production & mineing keep this country going . what does a greeny do ? ..whine & whinge thats about all. This country was forged from workers not from whingers . So if you find my comments offencive too bloody bad ! GREENIES ARE NOTHING BUT HYPOCRITCAL OXYGEN THIEVES

I think if you opened your eyes 666 you would realise that environmentalists love the bush. They want to see it preserved for everybody's children to enjoy and learn from. If you feel the need to type tough and act like a redneck then you really need to pull your head in.

I don't know the details of this incident, but people don't just handcuff themselves to a truck for no reason. If you think that logging old growth forests is good for the long term future of Oz's environment then you are surely blind.

Greenies oxygen thieves? well some of these greedy, selfish logging companies are stealing the bush from all of us.

Anybody agree with me?

Barnesy

Hi Barnesy,
I agree with you completely. Unfortunately there's no argument you'll put to some participants on this forum that will change their opinions.

It really surprises me that there are so many people here who are in favour of clear felling of old growth forests. Every time I drive through an area that has been cleared I am outraged, particularly knowing that the timber is being chipped and is not even being used for high value production.

The history of the south west of WA is a particular national disgrace. They couldn't stop logging because it would cost people their jobs. It's like saying we shouldn't have a law against stealing because it puts thieves out of work.

There are people here who still argue that global warming isn't real.

We have a situation where people are spending big money to plant trees to compensate for the carbon they are putting into the atmosphere, while we still have marginally profitable, open slather clear felling of trees.

The guys who advocate physical harm to the protesters clearly have problems that have nothing to do with the issue being protested.

Cheers Frank.

Contrary to expectations I like hugging trees as well....lol

I also think that cutting down old growth forests or clear felling for land is one of the most stupid things man can do. Trees generate oxygen for we humans and other species to exist.

I think that the greenies are very courageous although its not something I would do.What do I do? Nothing unfortunately, except to complain about mans' stupidity.

Cheers

barnsey do you drive a car ,live in a house ,read a newspaper, go out bush with your 4x4 ?..yes ? then you are nothing but a hypocrite. Logging does need to be controlled for sure but not by the good for nothing dole bludging greenies .People who live & work the land are the people that need to be listend to not a bunch of no hopers.By the way have you ever seen cleared country after a few years ? i think not . It comes back twice as thick . So maybe you are the one that should pull your head out of your backside & start rethinking your attitude towards real issues at hand . Stop defending greenies & look at the bigger picture. Conservation is something that does need to be addressed but by logical hands on people not a renta crowd. I bet i have done more good for the enviroment shooting introduced animals, poisoning noxious weeds & knocking over athol pine with a dozer than you ever will..have a nice day

Devils Toy(or isn't that the right implication)

You sound very passionate about your views.

Pity you make assumptions about people which you cannot substantiate.

And that reflects back on you.........................

Cheers

Just thinking out loud - back to the old Biology days - plants only produce oxygen during photosynthesis (daylight) when there is no sun plants revert to respiration taking in oxygen and using it. This used to be one of the reason plants were taken out of your hospital room at night in the 'ol days'.

It's a wonder the loggers haven't run this campagn and clear felled at night...when tress are "oxygen thieves" :-)

Tim - Stratford.

Sorry willam but it is my view & my assumptions are from real life encounters. I have had many dealings with fools who have tried to stop me from doing my duty & job by various green activists most were unemployed & some were uni educated & still unemployed . I admit not all greenies are dole bludgers but a bloody good majority are..so if that reflects on me so be it .I have served my country , lived & worked on the land & seen more of Australia than most so i believe i am more than qualified to comment on the actions of the greens .
Just for the record i do not condone old growth clearing but i do have a problem with people(greens) trying to stop working men & woman going about there lawful activity's . Weather you like it or not logging is legal in some arias so if protesters want to protest take it up with the government not the men & woman trying to earn a dollar.

666,

are you aware that many people working in the coal industry blame their own industry for polluting the atmosphere and contributing significantly to global warming?

I would expect then that many in the logging industry would also be aware of their actions but in the absence of other employment don't have any other choice.

Chaining themselves to trucks is a way of getting attention to their cause and gaining public support. They seem to be working, at least on this site as you are the only one arguing against them so passionately.

If anybody tries to con me into thinking bush is better after it's cleared then they need to try some other argument.

Barnesy

I don't need to con you. You are just blind & ignorant to the facts brainwashed maybe. I don't know & frankly i don't care. I know my form of logical problem solving by using a hands on approach & by using people who live & work the land is a far more effective form of conservation than a no hoper chaining its self to a truck. Just remember if the green Nazis have there way they will outlaw 4x4 driving ,stop primary production , totally wreck the mineing industry , stop fishing , stop hunting & probably ban everyone from driveing a car. What a wonderful prospect (not!!).

I'm brainwashed? Ban everyone from driving a car? You come up with some intelligent arguments don't you 666.

There is fact in my story & unlike you i see both sides of the coin .If we give the greens 1 inch they will try to take 10 mile. Read between the lines you may rethink your alliance with the greens .

Nice Hug there Motherhen but what is the thing sticking out behind you(wasn't sure how to put that...lol). Methinks it could be a tail :-D

Actually I've seen that (apparently) benign tree play similar tricks on a yong Danish devil.
Bware indeed! JH.

Willem, you must have seen the tail of at Thylacine, now extinct on the mainland becasue they have cut down all the dense forests.

Motherhen, you look distressed with that assault perpetrated on you by that huge tree. let me know where it is and I shall arrange it so that it shall not assault you nor anyone else ever again!

Willem

Like your photo

I hope you didn't get too close to the croc.

Kumunara

Pic taken on the banks of the South Alligator River (downstream from the bridge) from a boat. Used to run tours down that way in 1979/80/81.

Had a clouple of close encounters with crocs over the years and I am very wary of them :-D

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I thought Kangaroos, wallabies, Emus and snakes are all native animals, just this morning went for a drive that covered about 1000 acres of Planted pine forest and saw plenty of the above.

True Harry. Look at the mudslides they are having in Asia because of foresting. I agree that people do need work but other industries could be set up that don't destroy native bush, it's too rare and valuable. Some greenies appear irritating, but they've probably been threatened in the past by logging companies, does that make the news?

I fully agree gary. Cut the head of a snake & it dies

Other than that though... you guys thought it was a good idea? :)

I don't get it. Aren't you people on this site supposed to enjoy travelling the bush? but you don't mind seeing forests logged? what you don't seem to realise is that every forest that vanishes affects everyone, not just the loggers paypackets.

And all of this talk about running people over, letting them die is just crap and i'd like to see anyone say that face to face with someone else.

I've had enough of this stupid post with stupid rednecks.

We do enjoy seeing the bush. The problem, and "raison d'etre" of the Green movement is to lock up as much land to visitors (from whatever transport means) as possible. This is not their right. It is everyones right to see as much of our country as we would like.

This does not mean that most of us are against "conservation" as such, and many people on this forum and in the wider 4WD community actively assist in clean-ups, general maintanance of national parks and so on. Conservation is about maintaining the environment and using it in a sustainable way, not locking it away.

The Green movement in Australia has one major flaw in its perceived function; this is a "Brown" country. It is as the poets once said of "droughts and flooding rains", including bushfires and other natural phenomena into that equation as well. The Greens are adopting basically Anglo-European values of what "green conservation" is, and it is just inappropriate on this continent. We cannot keep the continent green. It was never meant to be...it is too hot, too dry, and burns easily.

I appreciate what you are saying about logging, but one decent bushfire through a national park is just as capable of doing the same, if not more damage to the ecosystem on a short term basis (Sydney several years ago). At least the forestry people replant after themselves (gaining several years in the "recovery" process), and do take the time to look after various animal habitats in the areas they log.

The question I originally posed above is a double edged sword for the Green movement, and serves to show the profound flaws in their approach. It usually results in the indignant response that you have provided. The Aboriginals have been working WITH "Mother Nature" for thousands of years (burn-offs and general land management) with far more success than we have had in the last 236 years imposing our Anglo-European "green" values on this patch of earth.

Well at least we won't see any more stupid Barnesy replies.

Barnsey a true one eyed green supporter (& a bloody hypocrite)

Barnsey, think about this.

What if you were conned into exiting your car, then had 15-20 angry people harass you and chain themselves to your car while you were in the course of normal activities of your employment (going to a meeting, doing a delivery, etc).

Reckon you would be out there cheering for the people? Or would you have reasonable fears for your safety? Who are you going to call "rednecks" now?

Oh yeah, you are going to be very late for that meeting/delivery, due to being questioned by the police....

funny how you never hear of the greens putting hidden dog spikes (railway spikes ) in trees marked to be felled (very dangerous for a chainsaw operator)but as soon as someone punches the protesters after they rile the workers up its on national news . Very one sided media reporting. A freind of mine had his truck vandalised in tassie (drained the oil out of his diffs & put sand in his fuel tanks) Q.so how do you expect him to react ?A. With a jack handle next time ! & people like barnsey still think the greens do no wrong .

GaryOz,
Of course the native forests need to be managed. But by National Parks or the like with a conservation focus. Not by logging companies with a focus on the bottom line.

Australia has destroyed something like 98% of our native forests, is it too much to ask to leave the remaining 2% undamaged?

I honestly don't see how logging native forests is "management". To me that seems like a politically correct term for 'don't ask what we're doing, just trust us'.

The example you use of Aboriginal people, they did manage the land very successfully. They didn't destroy such a large % of the forests over 50 00 years that we've done over 200. We have the machinery now to wipe the country flat if we wanted to, thankfully many don't want to.

For a start, nowhere in my posts did I imply that I accept the logging of NATIVE forest. I do not. I too am glad that they are reducing that.

IIRC The wood that was on the back of that truck was actually plantation wood.

"...But by National Parks or the like with a conservation focus..." You mean the Department of Sparks and Embers. By all means "manage it", but on a non-fireban day, and ideally out of the fire season. Too many instances of those people not even taking notice of up to date forecasts, with an "If we planned to do it that day, we'll do it that day" sort of attitude to their burn-offs. Remember they are simply beancounters, trying to spend as little as they possibly can, therefore they do not cancel due to additional costs of on call pay and re-hire of equipment and services etc.

Re-read your words too, particularly "conservation focus". Tell me how allowing access to areas automatically means they are not being managed with a (managed sustainable) conservation focus. The green movement is aimed SOLELY at exclusion of access, not any management form of "conservation". They are talking of closing the areas to EVERYONE, not just loggers, and unfortunately for those of us who enjoy getting away from it all, they are being increasingly successful.

Now, do you still want 15 angry people to jump your car while you are going about you business in your vehicle, or are you prepared to say that that IS the act of a "redneck" group, and not entirely helpful to their cause? In that situation, given half a chance wouldn't you jump back in you car and scream off out of potential danger to yourself and your vehicle (+contents)? If someone chained themselves to YOUR vehicle (out of your line of sight) and you took them for an unintentional "ride" in you reasonable haste to get away, who would you be blaming? Now reconsider your attitude to the truck driver concerned, and to the other twits.

Going way back to my first post, you now see why my initial comments were made.

GaryOz,
We both agree that native forests shouldn't be logged. I can see where you're coming from with your other points. I don't know the details of this case so won't comment directly.

But read this and you get an idea why many hate logging companies and are willing to sacrifice their personal safety to protest for what they believe in.

This company made $73 million profit in 2003, clears 20 000 hectares of old growth rainforest yearly of which there is only about 13% left. It is clearly an issue that strongly divides opinions:

TASMANIA: Logging Company Tries to Sue Protestors into Silence

Corporate Watch
January 26th, 2005



Gunns, the company responsible for logging the Tasmanian rainforests, is responding to a 5-year long campaign of protests and direct action by issuing a mass lawsuit, hoping to intimidate or impoverish its opponents out of existence. On the 13th of December, 2004 it filed a case naming 20 individuals and groups, from direct action protestors to a Green Party senator, and is seeking over A$6million in damages from them for a ‘conspiracy to injure Gunns by unlawful means’ - harming Gunns’ profits by protesting. This is the latest round in a bitter struggle that has polarised the Tasmanian community over the future of the remaining rainforests – on the one hand there is a powerful corporation and large number of loggers who depend on the industry, and on the other there is a large community of green citizens who are concerned to see the forests preserved.

Barnesy

Maybe the protesters should do what the IRA in Ireland have done. Do it through peaceful negotiation where they have found far more success than they ever did through guerrilla tactics. Lobby groups in politics have always spoken louder than any protesters chaining themselves to whatever.

"Protesting" used to have an effect on people, when it was the PEOPLE protesting. Now it has been done to death by the rent-a-crowd Uni "student" types, it no longer has the same impact.