Diff lockers - Troop carrier

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 12:05
ThreadID: 39579 Views:12166 Replies:6 FollowUps:6
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Hi All
Do diff lockers (ARB, TJM etc) increase the potential for transmission line failure due to increased forces in play? Or do they reduce it due to uniform load sharing between wheels?

Considering front diff lock for troop carrier and relying on standard LSD rear. Is this OK for off road touring. (ie in Prado got by with standard fit)

Incidentally noted that the Troopy seems a little less able in uphill traction than manual 2700cc Prado - though this might be due to high tyre pressures in Troopy.

Any thoughts appreciated.
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:25

Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:25
Troopies and Toyota's generally have very poor lsd's.
I fitted an airlocker to three troopies that I've owned, made a huge difference to off road ability and also meant that the torque of the engine could be used properly at low revs as I could idle over most terrain.
The front is a bit of overkill unless you intend to play rockhopper which troopies are not ideal for.
If it is a post 1990 model it will have the small front diff and they are best not strained, especially in reverse.
The lack of a front locker will allow a loss of traction before breaking a diff.
AnswerID: 205750

Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:36

Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:36
The toyota LSD only have a 14% bias when working correctly.You can test it by jacking up the drive wheel and see if the other will push it off a wooden block.
Ive never tried it but they say the LSD will struggle.
However I had my diff rebuilt last week and the shop reset it to get the LSD to bite a bit more.
ive also been told you can get more affect by sand blasting the clutch plates in the LSD which increases friction and the LSD effect.

Lockers do stess the diffs and axles more but you are also going into terrain that you wouldnt normally attempt.
On the other hand you should let wheel spin and a more controlled ascent/descent which should lessen damage to the drivetrain and the rest of the vehicle.
A lot of panel damage can occur if a vehicle rolls or slides sideways through lack of a locker;)
Having more flexible suspension will also help an open diffed vehicle as it will help keep all the wheels on the ground
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:38

Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:38
That should read "get less wheel spin"
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris R (NSW) - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:29

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:29
Thanks for the comments and experienced advice. Maybe I'm too gentle - the Prado's LSD seemed fine (from the driver's seat) at 280K. But the 2006 Troopy really didn't want to have much to do with some good sized steps and gravel that the Prado had done several times at walking pace.

Best regards

Chris
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Reply By: Ozrover - Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:32

Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:32
Hi chris.
I've had ARB diff locks in both a series 1 Disco (rear only) & both f & r of the current series 2 Disco.
The only problems that I've had so far are that I snapped both rear axle's in the series 1 disco (at different times) but that was extreme rock crawling with a heavy foot & worked V8.
That diff lock now lives in the front of the Disco 2.
I've replaced the front drive shaft on the Disco 2 due to wear (not due to the diff lock) and have fitted an earlier model tail shaft on the rear for insurance.
Used sensibly they shouldn't increase wear to the drive line, but increase traction by a huge amount.
I fitted the diff locks in preference to a winch, which I haven't needed yet!!

Regards
Jeff
AnswerID: 205752

Follow Up By: Member - Chris R (NSW) - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:34

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:34
That's interesting Jeff. Am currently weighing the recovery gear options for the troopy and have been thinking lockers might be a better early solution than winch. Idea being that you don't start using them to get further into trouble.

Thanks for your comments
Chris
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Reply By: Member - Jiarna (NT) - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 00:31

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 00:31
Hi Chris

The situations I've seen a snapped axle were when a wheel was spinning then suddenly gained traction. Seems to me that a diff lock would reduce this possibility as both wheels on that axle would have to spin.

LSDs are notorious for their short life, something like 40K km, although the Patrol version seems to last better. If you need the traction, ditch the LSD and fit a locker. I'll be doing that when it gets to the top of the wish list LOL.

Cheers
John
AnswerID: 205844

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 16:39

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 16:39
Jiarna.

On both occasions when I broke an axle, one wheel had less traction than the other, i.e. one wheel on stone & the other in the air & no front locker.
Therefore all torque going through the one wheel. (BANG)!

I don't think I would have broken an axle if I had no lockers (no traction at all) or both f & r lockers engaged (spreading the load).
Now I have ETC & CDL as well as f & r air lockers.

Oh! I was also running 33"x12.5" MTRs.

I bet something else breaks! : )>

Jeff.
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Reply By: desert - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:02

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:02
The flip side to all this, of course, and nobody has gerried yet, is that by removing the LSD you do not benefit whilst on marginal dirt roads at speed and other situations where you do not require outright locked traction, ie mavourvering around on secondary roads etc, where the locker will seriously deter your steering ability. Even the simple act of doing a "U turn" on marginal roads, even wet black top, can sometimes cause wheel spin and hop with an open diff. In my Patrol, I've retained the factory LSD, still going strong at 170K's and put an automatic Loka in the front. I reckon I have the best of both worlds. Factory handling and LSD traction when in 2WD and STEERABLE locked drive when hubs are engaged. In the serious stuff the Lok-rite compliments the LSD by not allowing excessive wheel spin speed that is the enemy of LSD's.The front Lokka also allows me to steer, unlike the traditional Air Lockers that make this almost impossible. And in extreme downhill situations, the tremendous traction adds to safer braking and decending, which is probably more important than climbing up in the first place.
AnswerID: 205932

Follow Up By: Member - Chris R (NSW) - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:43

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 18:43
Interesting useful replies from all thanks very much.

Now in final month of preparation for extended remote touring. Internal fitout very close. Includes stainless steel fly screens - I'm hoping that will stop at least some of them.

External ie 'road-ability' items still to be decided. (where the cash hits the road)

Cheers
Chris
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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 23:27

Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 23:27
Hi Chris,
I too have a Troopy, mines a 2996 RV model with the Toyota LSD and 23,000km's on it.
Yesterday I bogged the Troopy on Stockton Beach. One rear wheel had traction, the other didn't. (Same with the fronts)
I could let the clutch out, get out of the car and watch diagonal wheels spin. The Toyota LSD was as good as an open differential in that situation, it behaved exactly the same as the front diff. I'm not sure what I was expecting but definitely better than what I got.

Geoff.
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AnswerID: 206020

Reply By: Member - Chris R (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 at 08:38

Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 at 08:38
I've not taken mine on sand yet but expected not to hear your sort of experience as the Prado in standard form was pretty much invincible on sand and inclines. Thought that in buying the Troopie I was getting better off raod capability. Perhaps I am - guess I'll find out along the way.

The very high recommended tyre pressures (69psi rear) surprised me as this is a trifle excessive for good offroad traction. I haven't toyed around with pressures yet - as I only fitted the airpump into this vehicle last week so that I could discover the secrets of split rim tyre changing. (much easier than safety rim though I note now the need for different tubes with long valve stems - doubt my existing tube would fit) Also discovered that my dial pressure guage stops at 60psi. So that's now my upper tyre pressure limit - which I feel may have to come down considerably despite moderate to heavy load.

Best regards
Chris
AnswerID: 206051

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