New Prado

if toyota bought out a 4x4 camry (called a land cruiser i think?) with a 5.0L v8 diesel, 85kw and 200nm using 25L per 100km, most toyota people would still buy it and use the old reliability thing as justification. basicly toyota are about as innovative as a washing machine and wait for all the hard yards to be earned by the likes of land rover and other inventive companies, then they bring out their own 'reliable' version of the technology 10 years later. I think they actually are more reliable cars, but thats cause they are very conservative and also very very boooriiinnggg. BTW they do have a hybrid car, that is not traditionaly what toyota do, are we seeing a change in their style?

I guess youd be sore, Pajero TD, you probably just had your car valued...

you uniformed fools.

Did you get your information for your mate at the pub or what?

fool'S' did you mean me too? If your talking about my and more obviously pajerotd's opinion on toyotas then I dont think my opinion about toyotas is far from the mark. Sure they are reliable (some models) but they are also the most boring brand on the market, and they know this too! The thing is, we get on our websites and have a good old discussion on cars makes and models, but for the rest of the car driving world, no one gives a damn, they buy a wagon if they need to put stuff in it, buy a hatch if they dont have kids, etc,, cars just fulfill a role and mostly a boring one at that, so it stands to reason the car with the perceived least problems sells the most. BTW toyota are not at the top of the hill in reliability according to some European surveys. They just market them that way. The sales guys always say stuff like "durability, reliability, refrigerator look-a-like and proven over time". Thats because they cant use other descriptive words to sell their cars such as "interesting, innovative, good looks, nice to drive, good economy, new technology, free aircon, quality materials, strong LSD, functional design, cheap to own and buy, rear wheel drive, stronger than nissans, more capable than land rovers, best in class and powerful engine.

If your talking about accuracy of stats, I just pulled this from the toyo website.

Maximum Power
127kW @ 3400rpm
Maximum Torque
410Nm @ 1600rpm

As much as pajerotd likes to make a point, these starts are correct. It may be a new engine for toyota, but compared to most other brands its a little old hat. The old navara had around 128kw from memory (feel free to correct me). BMW, volvo, nissan, mercedies, jaguar, jeep, peugeot, citroen and maybe some others all have diesel engines on the market, and some for a long time, which have not only proven to be very reliable but use less fuel than this car/engine and put out heaps more power. This means the "new" toyota engine is already on the back step and therefore once again proven to be a follower rather than a leader in the field of car making. People will buy it tho and buy lots of it! Cause thats the brand they want to own irrelevant of the facts.

Facts??? As I said, uninformed.

Compared to other vehicles in a similar price range, most Toyotas are very much up to date if not ahead.
Oh your right the 3.0 Nissan TD engine was great, so powerful, so reliable.
It just happended to lack low end torque, and blew up a lot.

Have a look at a Toyota Aurion, compare its; price, technology, safety, performance against its nearest competitors?

Toyota is 30000+ units ahead of holden in Australia this year, obviously because we are all blind, stupid, and just sheap.

Some of us make descisions based on reliablilty records, resale, history and the car it self.

Toyota does not make the worlds best individual cars, but it is far from having a bad vehicle in its range.

We didnt say they were bad, we are saying that they are mediocre. Prados and LC100s do lack off-road ability in their stock form - we know because we have used them, Lexus V8 Hybrid was reported to use 14L per 100km - my Gen3 used 13.3L/100 over the period of an average week - with MY Driving! (thats saying something) most other 3L diesels now get at LEAST 160kw/500Nm - check Merc, BMW, Audi, VM Motori, even the LandRover/Peugeot 2.7TDV6 - the current Nissan 2.5 matches the "new" Toyota 3L - don't talk about reliability - i have talked to many other people and from own experiences Toyota diesels arent any more reliable than most other brands. - mate we are talking about facts and from our own experiences. If yours are different (eg, if you somehow manage to drive a Toyota that excites you) then state your observations without personal attacks, we are only attacking a manufactured product

No innovation, interesting.

Lexus GS450H?
The prius is not innovative, a car almost the size of a camry with consumption less than a 1.5 Barina.

They just happen to spend 25 million dollars per day on R & D, incidently more than twice any other car company.

Look out side your own back yards, if you think Holden is developing a diesel engine then you need to read more. An Italian company (VM Motori) is developing a Diesel engine possibly for use in some GM products maybe even Holden.
Holden develope very little, they use the GM parts bin to put together big cars.

Again, maybe read up and make your own opinion, rather than listening to your mates at the Pub.

By the way, I wholesale more than 30 vehicles every month, I like some of them , not just Toyotas.

Yep, and I recently had a look at the 5 door troopy, with live axels V8 diesel, due next march. Toyota make practical models that work, and their reputation means they will sell.

How well is Gm doing globally???

And locally, oh well we can't afford to use our own ideas we will just import daewoos.

You are really pathetic Camship, I can predict your arguments before you even say anything. I care very little about the financial difficulities car companies are having - I am not an ambassador for GM, I was just using them as an example because they are typical working-class target audience products. Toyota have a lot more experience at building diesels than does GM - so why isn't the Toyota product much much much better? Then i was giving an idication as to what my expectations would be from a Hybrid engine - even Jeremy Clarkson said a Golf Diesel gets better mileage than a Prius. Toyota fans have a perception of how good their cars are, and I believe each of their cars doesn't stack up as well as they market them.
Eg Camry is marketed at people who want a Falcon/Commodore with much better economy. Driving reports say the 4cyl Camry doesn't use much less fuel than either the other two.
Landcruiser/Prado is marketed toward people who want off-road capability - ARB must love them, cos to do any decent off-roading, you need all their aftermarket accessories - get behind the wheel of a Discovery though, and that is not the case.
(we got bogged in a river in an old Navara one time, someone in a stock LC100, couldnt even get in to the river to pull us out!!!)

By the way, your theory about resale is obviously based on the presumption of how good the car is. You need a lesson in Economics, so I will give you a basic rundown of how car resale works. It's supply/demand ratio (not either of the two alone) Commodores and Falcons have a huge demand in the second hand car market, but their supply (from ex fleets, private, ex police, ex taxis) flood the market beyond their demand, which brings their price right down. A Holden Suburban on the other hand, is hardly sort after in the second hand car market - it's a piece of rubbish (at least the one we got out of Mexico) but supplies are also very limited, seeing as Holden didn't import too many of them - they hold their value quite well, and still chase $30k-$40,000 - A Suburban in the USA though, would have more supply than demand- which in their market, brings the price down to probably what we would pay for a Falcon.

Bring on your next flawed argument! You have not even mentioned a fact or figure.
By the way the Toyota 3L diesel puts out the right power and torque for the first generation of Common-Rail diesels. However the figures I said they should be reaching are for 3rd and 4th generation. Seriously, get with the times!