Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:10
There are a few on here that, like me, haved lived in Islamic countries. But most have not. It's difficult for those that haven't lived in these countries to really understand the depth of commitment that Mulims have to thier religion. I will try to explain later how that very commitment is the very threat.
The majority of Australians find satisfaction, strength, happiness in may ways - one of which is NOT religion. For the majority in
Australia, religion is not important. Personal beliefs yes, maybe, but not religion. There's a world of difference between religion and belief. We find all we need in big cars, a big house, a happy family, mateship "meat pies & Holden cars", The Bush, beaches,
fishing, a BIG TV screen, a larrikin image, beer, "The Good Life" - many many things. It all we need. It's all we've ever asked for. We don't seem to need anything else - sad though that may seem.
But with Islam it's different. As someone said on here - "Islam a way of life". Just like the above Australianisms are a way of life to many of us. The religion of Islam is what keeps them going, it's thier "raison d'etre", it's why they are here on this planet. It rules everything they do.
A father will not object to having his daughter stoned to death for adultery - because he is a Muslim, a mother will say nothing if her son has both hands removed because he is a thief - she's a Muslim. A man will bomb his own country and the people in it - he's a Muslim. These are examples of the depth of faith that they have.
It rules every judgement they make. Islam is above all else.
Remember that these people are not Islamic Fundamentalists or Islamic Terrorists. These people are "regular guys" like you and me. They believe in Islam like nothing else on earth.
So if and when it comes to a showdown, a schitfight, in this country over who's gonna be running things, they might seem like innocuous people now, your next door neighbour whose lawnmower you borrow every second weekend, who you've known for years - what side will he be on after listening to the instructions of his Immam ? You are not important. His religion is. If the Immam says "Kill", then he or she will "Kill". Thier religious leaders and religious texts are way more important than democratically elected poiticians or thier laws.
It's happening in the UK right now and it'll happen here if we continue to adopt "she'll be right mate" or keep listening to the apologists.
I have never had a serious, troubling issue with any other ethnic or religious group anywhere I've been in the world, but the tenacity, the intensity of Islam frightens me. It is no different to the Roman Catholic Church prior to the Renaissance. A terrible presence that killed thousands in the name of thier God.
Some things aren't reconcilable, some things aren't meant to mix - oil and water, fish and chips with jam, a Holden with a Ford engine, Paul Keating as a Liberal, etc,etc.
Islam doesn't mix or integrate or assimilate - it takes over. That's the all consuming nature of it. It's MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. It will brook no argument. They are superior beings. They can't help themselves. They don't meant to. They believe it. It's thier way of life.
Ignore 'em as a social and political power - at your peril.
Bilbo
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:23
Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:23
Bilbo, are you telling us that ALL muslims are this fanatical about their religion?
By the way I agree with most of what you say, but I haven't seen the fanatical side.
By the way, recent laws have changed some aspects of Sharia Law in some countries , but sadly not all of the practises.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:30
Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:30
If you ask me (and I know you didn't but anyway :), we are using 21st C arguments with people still living in biblical times.
We need a 1500 year old stick ! :))))))
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:56
Saturday, Dec 09, 2006 at 23:56
You used the word "fanatical" not me.
If you are A MUSLIM, you are by default 'committed' to the religion and it's tenets, it's rules and its' rulers.
You cannot be "half a muslim" just like you can't be 'half pregant". If you are a Muslim you do as you are told. Otherwise you are cast adrift, "personna non grata". A person that is born in Islam cannot renounce it. Similarly if you take it up later in life.
You can however be a Christain or even an agnostic in
Australia without any finger being pointed at you or any judgement being made.
The last thing anybody wants in this life is to be eternally ignored amongst our peers. So if you're a Muslim - you do as you are told. Think back to Christianity about 600 years ago. If you were not a Christian - you were dead.
What I am saying FL, is that if it ever comes to a showdown, be that an all out fight or something as simple as a article of law, they will favour thier own ahead of others to the disadvantage of those others if needs be. Look at the way Malaysian laws favour Muslims ahead of other Malays - including the Ethnic Chinese Malays that run the country. It's abhorrent to us, but normal practice for them once they are in charge.
There is not the tolerance, the width of the legislation, the mercy, the consideration that we try to show to all ethnic groups.
As a pale example - try catching public transport or a cab in Saudi Arabia and see how far down the dance card the infidels are. It'll open yer eyes.
Bilbo
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 09:23
Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 09:23
I replied with a long dissertation on the differences between Islamic groups, Shari Law, different countries etc. I then examined the case of Saudi, and Indonesia to illustrate my point. Then I was interrupted and the post didn't get sent (thankfully).
In a nutshell, Muslims aint Muslims, Sol :)))))))
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 11:05
Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 11:05
"There are a few on here that, like me, haved lived in Islamic countries."
Wadaya mean....Looking at the news I thought
Australia was an Islamic Country!!!
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 15:14
Sunday, Dec 10, 2006 at 15:14
Spot on Bilbo.
One time I was in Saudi (Hafar al Batin) and spent some time working with some Yanks, Canucks, French and Brits and we all agreed it was impossible to relate to our friends and relatives at home what it was like to work and live there because the experience was so far removed from their world that they simply did not understand - why should they, after all?
Mike Harding
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