Who owns who in the car business

I was taught that Two wrongs don't make a right!!!! LOL

Cheers Stefan

Yep, had a couple of Fords, almost bought a POOtrol, woke up & bought two Disco's & now have one Disco (built under BMW) & another Ford.

Just can't help myself, must like getting dirty & fixing things in my spare time! 8 )>

Go the Daihatsu Sirion GT !

75Kw from 1300cc and about 950kg all up.

Pity I had to get the auto for SWMBO, it dulls the performance a lot, but it's still a nifty piece of kit for height challenged people who like a bit of zip.

"I read in a publication quite recently, that due to the changing nature of the Automotive Industry, General Motors and Ford are considering a merger. "

Naaaaaa.....Couldn't happen......they would destroy a great Australian rivalry!!!!
That would be like-
Collingwood and Carlton joining forces
Uni-sex toilets
Nissotas
Don't even joke about it.
Cheers
Hairy

Hi Willem,

I'm just curious where you get the information that Toyota is the world's largest vehicle manufacturer.

From what I've read, General Motors is the world's largest vehicle manufacturer by a substantial margin. On raw data, Toyota is second and Ford third.

However, if you were to combine Ford's production with that of Mazda, in which Ford has a controlling interest, then Toyota slips to third.

Maybe it's one of those Stats, statistics and dammed lies concepts. But like Norm says, it's all very interesting.

I would disagree on one of Norm's comments. I would reckon that every Landrover owner knows exactly which company owned the Landrover at the time their particular vehicle was manufactured.

Cheers

Richard

Hmmm Richard

Maybe it was supposed to read Wealthiest. I don't know. Must have Googled it. Too much information about

Fresh Google 2 minutes ago :-D

The headquarters of Toyota is located in Toyota, Aichi, Japan. Toyota also provides financial services through its subsidiary, Toyota Financial Services, and participates in other lines of business. It manufactures vehicles sold in the United States under the brand names Toyota, Scion and Lexus. Toyota also owns majority stakes in Daihatsu and Hino, and 8.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries, which manufactures Subaru vehicles. They also acquired 5.9% of Isuzu Motors Ltd. on November 7, 2006.

As of 2005, Toyota, combined with its half-owned subsidiary Daihatsu Motor Company, produced 8.54 million vehicles, about 500,000 fewer than the number produced by GM that year. In July 2006, Toyota passed Ford in selling cars, although Ford regained its lead over Toyota in the following month and lost it again due to heavy gas prices. Toyota has a large market share in the United States, Europe and Africa and is the market leader in Australia. It has significant market shares in several fast-growing Southeast Asian countries.[4]

In the Fortune Global 500, it is the 8th largest company in the world outpacing Ford Motor Company in all listings in terms of revenue and growth and in the 2006 Forbes Global 2000 it is the 12th largest company in the world. It has been consistently gaining market share in the United States, while shrinking sales for Ford and General Motors in the United States.

Its slogan is "Moving forward" or "It's time to move forward" in the United States and various other countries in the world. In Europe their common slogan is "Today. Tomorrow. Toyota." In some countries such as Australia, the slogan is "Oh what a feeling!" which was Toyota's slogan in the US during the 1980s.

Cheers

Hairy

Google it. There is quite a bit about the mooted merger.

Both Ford and GM are in a world of hurt at the moment from a number of factors, and the Automotive Union’s in the states have got both companies buy the balls, and unlike Toyota and other Jap car companies who can produce cars for less buy paying there production workers less ford and GM can’t do this.

When you look at the fact that Ford/ GM have to pay there assembly line workers something like $35+ per hour + full medical coverage for life you can see why both companies are in trouble and as a result product quality has taken a dive as they need to save money somewhere.

Now if Ford and GM were to combine forces they could do some real damage as they are each others own worst enemies as they are both fighting for the same market share. Get that out the way and they have a lot of $$ to spend on development and product improvement.

There is speculation of Ford Aus trying to export their XR Line of falcons to the U.S and from brief conversations I have had with people on U.S forums a lot of them would love to get there hand on one, as they have nothing like that over there.

G'Day Exploder,

Sorry, but If wages were the only thing holding Ford / GM back a crisis would soon sort this out. U.S. auto workers are generally on fixed term contracts. Shut down one plant and open another somewhere else on lower wages evens things out.

Ford have been building vehicles in Mexico for over 20 years, at a fraction of the wages of the U.S. plants, yet Ford Atlanta - with high wages - is the most efficient plant in the company.

The is a little thing called "The Toyota Way" and "Lean Manufacturing" that have a far greater impact than anything to do with wages.

Toyota continue to go forward while most other manufacturers go backward

Google both of these and you will see what I mean

Regards

Rolande

Where do you think Toyota leart the so called "Toyoya Way" from companys like Ford who Pioneered automotive production and manufacturing techniques, Toyota just copied it, and that’s one thing the Jap’s do well.

Both Ford and GM have made Mistakes at management level that has cost them but in fairness to their management the structural problems go back about 50+ years.

The issues with the pension plans and heath fund costs date back to the economic rush that marked the post World War II US economy, when their government froze the wages that companies could pay employees.

Large corporations like Ford, GM and Chrysler, desperate to attract and retain employees, struck deals with the unions that provided for generous fringe benefits, payable even when an employee retired. These pension and health care costs have become the albatross around the neck of much traditional US industry.

Ford and GM now find themselves in the position of being unable to adequately fund local car development because the contracted payments to former employees are bleeding them dry. It comes down to not being able to spend an extra $20 per car on better interior plastics and fabrics because they have to pay $20 health care to an employee who retired in 1985. Crazy stuff.

In fact its worse than that, the deals struck with the large US corporations in the late 40's and early 50's generally provided that even when the retired employee died, benefits would continue to be paid to his dependant spouse for the term of her life.

The difficulties for reform of these arrangements are, of course, aggravated by the US's near third-world approach to funding social security and health care. When the large corporations try to negotiate their way out of these deals, the unions quite justifably get upset, aware that there is no effective safety net to catch the former employees who suddenly lose their benefits.

There are other historical structural problems shared by Ford and GM. For instance, both have duplication of product ranges across their respective brands, e.g. Ford/Mercury and Chevrolet/Buick/Saturn. The various differentiations to trim etc needed to maintain these individual brands is very expensive. However, neither Ford nor GM can readily rationalise these brands because of their contracted arrangements with their distribution networks. Attempting to rationalise these networks by eliminating a brand or two would basically embroil them in massive litigation and compensation costs.

It is for these reasons that I suggest that the deep, deep, problems that both Ford and GM find themselves embroiled are pretty much unsolveable without external intervention. Chrysler was lucky enough to find a white knight in the form of Daimler-Chrysler after the near fatal collapse of Chrysler forced the unions to renegotiate the health care and pension deals. Unfortunately for Ford and GM, white knights are thin on the ground these days.

Cheers.

Actually Toyota and much other Japanese industry learnt much from W Edwards Demming, who had tried to convince the post WWII Yanks they needed to change direction, and when they wouldn't listen was sent to Japan to sort Japanese industry out.

Of course the Yanks knew best, and look where it got them.

I'd love to know where you got $35 US an hour as a wage figure for an american production line worker from.

Dave

Just using it as a figure, but from reading U.S websites the unions have got there Workerss one hell of a deal and are getting close to prices themself out of a Job.

"who had tried to convince the post WWII Yanks they needed to change direction"> From what, Post WW2 sore some of the best cars ever being produced.

Yeah Toyota builds good reliable cars, but they aren’t inspirational and they won’t be remembered in years to come.

Mustang
GT
Tickfords
GTO
GTS
Monaro
Camaro
Corvette
SS
F6
Charger
Thunderbird
ETC

All cars that will be remembered and talked about they are part of a motoring heritage, Ford, GM, Chrysler build cars to be Driven, Toyota builds cars to get you from A to B.

Kachiiro Toyoda certainly studied Ford production with some interest. Albert Sloan improved on Henry Ford's mass production system by putting in different management structures. Remember the "any colour you like so long as it is black"

Toyoda went back to Japan to his little car company and decided they could not compete and had to come up with something better. Taichi Ohno developed the toyota production system, using tools developed by Demming and others, but above all they built cars in small lots and in quick time. They also develop cars in 12 months, Ford and GM take 3 years, so they are able to react to market forces quicker. The only reason the yanks can't keep up is because their management is more interested in the next performance bonus than they are in the future of the company.

Toyota raised the bar in the development of the Lexus brand, beating Mercedes, BMW, etc at the first attempt. Ever driven a Lexus?

As for Daimler "saving" Chrysler, they did more to destroy what the management at Chrysler had built 10 years developing and the result is their quality is still crap.

Toyota meanwhile, they have an estimated $US 50 billion in the war chest. So much for someone who supposedly "copied" Ford and GM.

The biggest growth industry in the U.S. over the last 10 years has been consultants trying to teach U.S. companies how to be as efficient as Toyota, how, by trying to copy Toyota - funny about that.

That's why the book is called "The Toyota Way" instead of the Ford or the GM way.

toyota production system

So much to learn, so little time

Regards

Rolande

Mustang
GT
Tickfords
GTO
GTS
Monaro
Camaro
Corvette
SS
F6
Charger
Thunderbird
ETC

A great list of largely old vehicles that were largely big on grunt, low on quality (panel fit and trim issues) and true enough once 95% or more had been driven into the ground the remainder became restorers projects and collectors items.

Not that I'm not a fan - I'd love an old 'stang or Monaro parked in my garage.

I don't know that the current SS will ever really qualify to be on that list, or that you will see too many of todays new SS's or Mustangs on the collectors lists in 25 years time. The plastic parts aren't going to survive well after 30 years of high temps, UV exposure and wear.

Collector cars generally need to be immaculate. The longer new cars are used the less immaculate they get, and being built to price and planned obsolescence they are going to die out.

It's already happening. If you think now about how many cars from the early 80's are on the road there are very few. I can remember in the late 80's when I was at Holden seeing older Kingswoods and Falcons on the road in great number.

Even now due to crashing prices on 2nd hand cars cause predominantly by falling new car prices and high turnover rates in an ever increasingly disposable society, when kids are hotting up or these days sprucing up more than hotting up cars, they are generally choosing to do it on cars built in the last 5-6 years.

When I was a P plater I borrowed nearly half my annual salary to buy a 10 year old Gemini that was modified, lowered etc. with over 200,000km on the clock.

Now half the annual salary of a 2nd or 3rd year apprentice technician will buy a 4 year old Commodore with less than 60,000km on the clock.

Dave

What are we talking about agene LOL?

I think it had something to do with why Ford GM are in the trouble they are in, and I agree that the Jap’s build Good reliable cars but Ford/ GM build cars to be driven and cars that are remembered, and the problems they are currently having was caused buy deals that were struck years ago which has led to cost cutting and quietly problems.

Or Something like that anyway.

Well I will still buy a Ford product even if it is not as well built as the Toyota equivalent as it’s the type of car I like and enjoy driving.

Or Maybe that’s because it has been programmed into me from a child, as the only cars my old man ever brought has been Ford’s and he outright refused to look at another brand of car LOL.

I worked for Uncle Henry for 11 years.

Saw lots of changes.

Falcon and Commodore still better engineered / built than yank stuff. They have to spend lots of development dollars because drivers too stupid to wear seatbelts!

Money Australian companies spend on steering / suspension. That is why they sell Monaro as GTO and current Mustang uses the Falcon rear end. No sloppy saggy steering / suspension there.

Name one memorable vehicle, (other than the exploder, but that's another story), to come from these two in the U.S. in the past 25 years?

Most of the P-platers around here now buying 10 year old jap imports to hot up, sourer, silvia, R-type Honda's, etc

Regards

Rolande

All very interesting

But I'll still not expend good Aussie Dollars on Jap Crap whilst they continue to slaugther Whales in the name of 'Research'.

What bull..it. And I'm the last person that could be called a 'greenie'

I t's the only way I have to boycott all Jap products. I 've had a look around my house and I've only one Jap product.

I'll have to get rid of it.

Cheers

You will of course throw away your Nokia mobile phone as well?

that's the item

I would have thought Paccar would have been - Kenworth, Peterbuilt, DAF.