Decanting gas from 9kg to smaller bottle... is it possible?

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:01
ThreadID: 40814 Views:36675 Replies:8 FollowUps:18
This Thread has been Archived
possible? dangerous? illegal? need special gadgets?

that just about covers my question :)

Why am I asking... to save you the trouble of asking me! We've got two 9kg bottles on the camper but I'd like to run a BBQ from a smaller bottle (easier to stow, move to where barby might be setup, etc) and being able to fill the little bottle from the big ones might be handy.

Cheers, Nige
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:38

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:38
Yep easy, make up a free flowing hose that fits both ends, fit and tighten hose firmly to both bottles, tip 9kg upside down, turn on valve, turn on valve on smaller bottle, undo bleeder screw with a spanner or screwdriver, when full liquid gas will come out of bleeder, turn off bleeder with spanner or screwdriver, dont burn yourself on freezing gas, turn off 9kg bottle, and turn off smaller bottle, turn back up normal way and undo hose to release gas in hose, again be careful not to burn yourself, check valves and bleeder again after a couple of minutes in case they have tightened against frozen gas.
DO OUTSIDE IN WELL VENTED AREA AWAY FROM ANYTHING ELEC AND OR FLAME, INCLUDING PILOT LIGHTS ON CARAVANS ETC.
SOME KIND OF BREEZE BLOWING IS BEST.

Did it for years from 45 kg bottles, but hardly use any gas now, elec light and petrol stove, have one gas bottle for coleman tent heater, but dont use it that much.

Cheers Pesty
AnswerID: 212950

Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:56

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:56
Exactly like pesty says but I think you will find its illegal though.
Just dont tell anyone.....SHHHHH
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 473146

Follow Up By: Member - Jason S (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 00:06

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 00:06
Remember folks.

It is only illegal when caught in the act.
0
FollowupID: 473148

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 08:29

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 08:29
whos gunna care if your dead...its also very dangerous
0
FollowupID: 473161

Follow Up By: DIO - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:32

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:32
Jason - S you must be a very proud father knowing that your kids will grow up to follow your philosophy in life - IT IS ONLY ILLEGAL WHEN CAUGHT IN THE ACT. (I suppose you're one of those who cry 'unfair' when pinched for speeding (etc)
0
FollowupID: 473177

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:38

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:38
whoa the morality police are out......
Don't know how someone can accuse others of something when they don't know a thing about that person other than a few words that have been typed in a sentence - which may of been tongue in cheek also.

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 473180

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 21:26

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 21:26
Leroy all tongue in cheek comments are noted appropriately "TIC"

These are obviously "FD" - fair dinkum
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 473369

Follow Up By: disco driver - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:34

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:34
Yeah It's illegal but..................there are plenty who still do it.
Don't agree with using gas hose direct from the bottle, it's not designed to be used without a regulator.
If you are going to refill your own small bottles make up a connector using all copper pipe and brass fittings, NOT HOSE.
An old 45lb bottle nut & tail makes a good start, just braze/silver solder the necessary fittings to suit your small bottle onto the other end.

Disco
0
FollowupID: 473407

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 07:00

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 07:00
>Don't agree with using gas hose direct from the bottle,
>it's not designed to be used without a regulator.

How about the cheap high pressure cookers which connect, via hose, directly to the gas bottle - no regulator?

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 473427

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:26

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:26
What a load of dribble, the same hose is used wether it has a regulator on it or not, when you buy gas fittings the hose can be bought seperatly to be used on any gas appliance. The hose that comes for the coleman HWS/heater is one that comes to mind, doest have a regulator.
Would be a lot safer for the average person to buy a proper hose than rely on them getting a silver solder joint welded properly, besides most people dont have an oxy set.
I do have an oxy set and can weld this joint and I wouldnt use it.

Cheers Pesty
0
FollowupID: 473459

Reply By: res.q.guy - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:41

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:41
Hi Nige
I fill all my 9kg, 4kg and smaller bottles from a 45kg bottle.
I just use an lpg hose with the adaptors to suit.
The bottle you are filling from will have to be turned upside down.
Do it in an open area, with no ignition sources such as hot water pilot lights etc.
Not sure about the legalities of it though !!!!!!!
Regards
Neil
AnswerID: 212952

Reply By: HGMonaro - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 08:31

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 08:31
thanks!
AnswerID: 212971

Reply By: japmel - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:09

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:09
It is illeagle to decant LPG from one Bottle to another unless you have a ticket to do so, obviously if you don't know what you are doing it can be very dangerous. There are numerous things that can go wrong, Over filling the Bottle is just one thing that people may not be aware of, An LPG Bottle should only be filled to 80%.

There's a lot more that I could go on about but it's easier for me to just say don't do it.

Regards
japmel
AnswerID: 212979

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:14

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:14
With the exception of inverting the full cylinder the procedure described above is _exactly_ the same as I have witnessed every time I have had a cylinder filled by a commercial supplier. Would you please explain why it is more dangerous to refill from one's own cylinder?

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 473168

Follow Up By: japmel - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:30

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:30
I said it Can be very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, And I would say that the majority of people don't know what they are doing when it comes to filling Gas Bottles, Therefore they should not attemp to fill one themselves.

It is ileagle.

Regards
Japmel
0
FollowupID: 473173

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:41

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:41
I filled bottles for years without a ticket. Didn't know you needed one! The bottles are designed to only fill to 80% that's why they have a bleed valve when gas escapes indicates the bottle is 80%full.

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 473183

Follow Up By: japmel - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:49

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:49
Leroy, You might know that but the magority of people don't. That's the point I'm triing to make.

It is ileagle and thats all that really needs to be said.

Regards
japmel
0
FollowupID: 473191

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:40

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:40
Mind you, some of the fills I have had at servos have been done by teenagers with no idea. A couple of times I have had to show them how to do it.

And nearly everywhere has a hose clamp or similar that they slide over the trigger in direct contravention of the printed instructions on the wall next to them. Perhaps they can't read.

Oh, and I fill my smaller bottles from my 9kg one using a purpose bulit solid pipe connector with a trigger valve that I hold down with my hand.

Pete
Any mug can be uncomfortable out bush

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 473235

Reply By: Hairy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:10

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:10
Gday,
Like Leroy I couldn't count how many bottles I've filled tested and re stamped
(old man owned a camping shop) and I personally never had a licence. I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if the filling licence actually goes with the business not the person doing the filling,
More to do with the proper storage and public liability of having a bloody huge cylinder. Rather than speculate why not try and contact whoever governs this in your state . You might find it takes bugger all to be able to do it LEGALLY.
Also you wont have to put with criticism from the morality police who obviously have nothing better to do than throw insults.
(One moral thing my Gran taught me was if you cant say something nice[or constructive] dont say anything at all [keep your mouth shut].
Ill find out what the NT rules and regs are and post them.

Pestys filling method sounds spot on to me but why not ask the bloke filling your bottle at the servo next time to run you through it.

Cheers
Hairy
AnswerID: 212998

Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 16:13

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 16:13
I'm not going to concern myself with the moral or legal issues but what does concern me is that it is damned hard to find a place that will fill gas bottles for you, everywhere wants to exchange your 9Kg for an 8.5 kg... let alone trying to get a small propane torch bottle filled... Get yourself a proper hose, you can buy the fittings at a few places or screwcut them yourself. The larger one is 1/2" BSP LH and the smaller one is 1/4" BSP LH and Companion use 3/8" BSP LH (you always wanted to know that didn't you?)....Maybe I can make my fortune making "Illegal Gas Decanting Kits"
"If you can't do the job yourself it's not worth doing" he says preparing to duck the incomming bombardment from the Thought Police....
AnswerID: 213042

Reply By: luch - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 19:05

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 19:05
Nige,
I have a Ticket to Decant Gas Bottles Yes it is VERY ILLEGAL and can be dangerous.

Bleeding Screws can freeze open and can eaisly break !
Static Elcectricity can result in big trouble !
Serious burns LPG boils at - 42 deg c
You need to know how to empty the gas to Atmosphere if you break the bleeder

Run you hand down the side of both Gas bottles to equilise static electricity.

If you break the bleeding screw or a valve freeze open you need to take the bottle to an open area and hose it down with WATER untill the bottle is empty.

REMEMBER: LPG IS HEAVIER THAN AIR SO IN CAN TRAVEL ALONG THE GROUND AND CAN BE IGNITED BY A SOURCE SUCH AS PILOT LIGHT ELECTRICAL SOURCE ECT.

My opinion is that you dont do it unless you are shown by a Compitent person who holds a ticket, it can be extreemly dangerous not only for your self but anyone near by


AnswerID: 213068

Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:21

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:21
Hmmm.

"Very illegal" would be a bit like being a "little bit pregnant" would it not?

I've seen a bleed screw stick fail or otherwise, and the guy at the filling point (the now gone BP servo at Rye) had not the first clue what to do about the 9kg of gas that he had no way of stopping from filling the forecourt of the servo.

Obviously he had done the training...

There are some good pics around of vehicles that have seen the wrath wrought by a gas cylinder letting go. I'll see what I can dig up.

Dave
0
FollowupID: 473415

Follow Up By: Hairy - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:30

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:30
There are also some good stories of 4WDs hurting people but it doesnt mean we are all stupid??
0
FollowupID: 473418

Reply By: brett - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 20:31

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 20:31
Has the 16 year old at the local servo done any training or holds a "ticket" in gas decanting? I'm not sure but at a guess I'd say no. I'll back my common sense over the kid at the servo any day. Sure it can be dangerous but so is filling up your car with petrol. Does every person with a driving license have any professional training in decanting flamable liquids?
AnswerID: 213075

Follow Up By: luch - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 22:04

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 22:04
Yes Every 16 year old is trained and assessed in filling bottles, legal requirement what owner, manager, Boss ect would take the risk !

Work place Safety

Breaking laws to do with gas bottles is a Dangerous Goods Offence
0
FollowupID: 473383

Follow Up By: Hairy - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:25

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:25
This morning I emailed NT gas and Work Health with all of the above questions and have no reply.... my guess is they are still checking the regs themselves???
0
FollowupID: 473417

Sponsored Links