OT Is there a plumber in the house? Need to pump grey water

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:08
ThreadID: 40824 Views:4023 Replies:13 FollowUps:16
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I know it's a how long is a piece of string type question but how many litres/min do you get out of a garden tap? I know it depends on your water presure but lets say you have 'good' presure.
The reason I would like to know is that I wan't to make a grey water tank and I need to get a bilge pump so was thinking about a Rule Mate 500 automatic bilge pump to get the water onto the garden.

Thanks.........Leroy
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:15

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:15
Get a bucket with measurments on it and fill it from the tap with a stop watch going and work it out from there, not that hard.

Cheers Pesty
AnswerID: 213000

Reply By: Hairy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:23

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:23
Gday Leroy,
Just put a bucket under you tap, turn it on flat out for 30 seconds, measure it and times it by two.
Ask whoever sells you the pump because if your tank is going to be under ground you will also have head preasure and pipe diameter to deal with. There are quite a few things to take into account like how far do you want to pump the water, do you live on a hill, are you going to run drippers misters etc etc.
I personally would explain it to the pump dealer so if it doesnt work you can take it back. Sorry mate not much help but there are a lot of variables to take into account to get it right.
Cheers
AnswerID: 213001

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:29

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:29
Gday Leroy

Be careful on how you pre filter your crey water - those curly hairs that go down the shower plug can reap havoc with bilge pumps. I looked at a site the other day that had a few options for grey water systems, from unfiltered to fully treated. I considered one myself, but our bore is really good so I saw Little advantage (although soapy water is good for control of lawn grubs, so the washing Machine has a bit of poly out to the lawn)...Hey, there is a thought, I'm sure a washing machine has a pump that can handle the odd bit of hair etc.

Good luck with the system - When I was considering one, I was looking into puting a decent concrete tank in with an overflow to the sewerage sustem and a float valve near the bottom hooked up to the water mains. I was then going to run my retic off a pump that would first use up the grey water, but wouldn't run dru as the float valve would kick in when the tank was about 1/4 full (3/4 empty)

Everyone in a water restricted area should have one, along with a rainwater tank (IMO)

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 213003

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:52

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:52
I could of put in a couple of tanks easitly 12mths ago as I built a double garage and double carport off the side. I could of put 2 large tanks at the back of the carport as it's 6x6 and the garage is 6x9 and had the carports level with the front of the garage leaving a 6x3 space at the end of the carports but I didn't do that did I! All guttering slopes away in the wrong direction also but this water problem wasn't an issue really 6-8 mths ago. It is now becasue we had no snow or rain this past season.
I can still water the lawn and wash the car but I feel a little guilty watering the lawn but I paid a few $$$ for it 12mths prior so I'm determined to keep it alive. See I could of put under lawn soakers before I laid the turf at the time.....if only I had a crystal ball.

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473223

Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:07

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:07
A crystal ball would be a great thing! We are lucky up here - more water than you can poke a stick at, but the watercorp still charges us heaps for it, so the bore is for everything bar drinking, cooking and brewing, which we have a small rainwater tank for. I still cant understand why city storm water runoff is sent to the sea, and the cities rely on country runoff into the rivers and dams....

Good luck with the system....gutters runing the wrong way can be solved with underground stormwater drain to the tank in some instances, but not all.

Cheers Andrew

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FollowupID: 473229

Reply By: equinox - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:38

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:38
You might want to check with the EPA, Water Authority and Local Council too, to see what the correct installation procedures are, so it is a legal installation.

Last thing you want is a backyard environmental disaster on your hands.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



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AnswerID: 213004

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:55

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:55
I only want to divert the shower and washing machine rinse water - not the soapy wash water. I don't wan't to kill my lawn and plants either. I did a little reading about what to do and that's where I read I can't use a sprinkler. Technically you need to use a licenced plumber also for all plumbling.

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473224

Reply By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:44

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 11:44
Thanks guys I didn't think of the simple time the water method.
I know there are a few variables in pumping wrt to height and distance. I really only want to do a simple setup with the oulet of the pump going to the lawn and move the hose each day. No drippers or sprinklers (actually I read that using sprinklers with grey water is illegal).
The Rule automatic pump has a built in float switch so it makes it simple but will it not cope with the hair/fluff?

Leroy
AnswerID: 213005

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:04

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:04
Here's a pump that you can pull apart and clean.

Bilge Pump on special

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473228

Reply By: phil - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:00

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:00
A sprinkler at normal mains pressure is about 600 litres/hour.

Phil I
AnswerID: 213006

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:14

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:14
thanks for that. I now don't have to time and waste a bucket of water lol

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473232

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:00

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:00
Hmm... that is low pressure. I get 1,500 l/hr from my tap and 4,500 l/hr from my retic system (1" pipe just off the meter). There is a lot of variation so may pay to check your own, or if its only something approximate then simply go with any of these figures :)

Cheers

Captain
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FollowupID: 473243

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:38

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:38
I just needed a reference so I could work out what bilge pump to buy. 30l/m doesn't mean anything to me on it's own but if you say that's your garden tap flat out then I have an idea. In the end the pump only needs to pump as quickly as what flows in.

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473256

Follow Up By: phil - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:48

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:48
The 600 litres/hour I quoted was for a sprinkler, not an unrestricted hose.

Phil I
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FollowupID: 473549

Reply By: lbudgie - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:57

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 12:57
just out of curiosity , whats it cost to have a bore put in and do you need a council permit?
AnswerID: 213016

Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:29

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:29
Usually around the $110 - $150 per metre cased, then the pump from $300 to whatever you like (around a grand will get you a good submersable).

All up we went down 35m, double casing with cavity to about 20m, single casing from there down, a Jet pump and approx 35 litre pressure tank (helps stop lots of Pump cycling if using for house hold, not needed for retic alone) for around $6k

Cheers Andrew
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FollowupID: 473253

Reply By: gottabjoaken - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:32

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:32
Check the water restriction rules carefully.

My understanding - probably different for every state / water authority (don't you love this country!) - is that if your tank is topped up with mains water, then the whole of the tank permanently comes under mains water restrictions.

That would be whether rainwater or grey water.

Ken
AnswerID: 213020

Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:54

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:54
Have a look at these suckers Leroy Site Link where the older one has 26 metres head capability 36 psi. New one has higher pressures of 45 psi. That can operate sprinklers. Even 36 psi is pretty good but nowhere near what townies expect.
AnswerID: 213036

Follow Up By: Member - Mal B - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 19:26

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 19:26
look in plumbers suplies bunnings ect i picked up a brand pondmate 3500p emptys my big wheely bin via 20mm hose in 20mins.make shore it can be used in line [remove filter to screw in conection] dont need filter as impeller is plastic and removed in mins cost $60.00 safe driveing mal b
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FollowupID: 473332

Reply By: shaen - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 20:35

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 20:35
Try a washing machine pump, durable, high volume, cheap and robust.

Cheers
AnswerID: 213076

Reply By: dags666 - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 06:33

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 06:33
Leroy as a licensed plumber first check with local council what you can and can not do.first of all if you are looking for a rebate you need to use a licensed or bsa card holder to get your rebates. Leroy when we set the old systems up with a holding tank we use a pump with an automatic float turns on when the tank is approx 3/4 full and run the hose onto the lawn with a pope sprinkler attached to a hose. why a pope, heavy water droplets and only sprinkles within say as 10 foot dia. i would not put it through a sprinkler or micro jet system because this water is untreated and the bacteria in it is more likely to become air born. personally i and many other colleagues believe the pollies are opening a Pandora's box here. if every one in the cities start spraying grey water, health problems may occur,because i don't know my neigbours personal habits say washing nappies in the bath going to the toilet in the shower or bath etc.... Dags
AnswerID: 213146

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:27

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:27
Not interested in a rebate - just trying to do my water saving bit. I'm not interested in saving the washing machine water from the wash cycle only the rinse. The kitchen sink won't be connected. I was going to grab the shower water but you do highlight an interesting point about peeing in the shower etc. Dam i'll have to hold on now!

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473460

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:41

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:41
When was the last time you heard of someone dying from (bacteria free) pee? :-)

Andrew
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FollowupID: 473464

Reply By: HowdyDoody - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:00

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:00
Hi Leroy, I may be way off the mark here but we were told that grey water could not be stored in a tank as it turns septic after 24 hours - we were told this by a plumber quoting on setting just that up for us. We now have an extension attached to our washing machine pipe so that we can water the lawn as the machine empties. It means that we have to be home when a load of washing goes through but thats fine. Put a load on in the morning, then drink the cuppa while watering the lawn.
AnswerID: 213152

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:34

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:34
HowdyDoody,

Be aware there is a difference between a balance (buffer) tank and a storage tank. A balance tank is generally used to blanced out the inflows and outflows in these systems. Installing a balance tank is hydraulically simpler than trying to match the pump to the inflow as the inflow will vary accordingly. A balance tank is intended to be emptied on every use and therefore doesn't store the greywater as such.

In any case some local authoritoes may allow some storage (however confirm with your local authority), but these are still intended to have short retention times and their overflows must be directed to sewer.

Andrew
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FollowupID: 473445

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:20

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:20
Howdy, you are correct about the 24hr storage period. I don't want to store it but have like a holding tank where all grey water goes into and then from there I can pump it out to the lawn/garden.

Leroy
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FollowupID: 473456

Follow Up By: HowdyDoody - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 13:41

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 13:41
Great idea - the holding tank that is. Let us know how you get on.
Slightly different direction here, I know technically grey water should not go onto vegie gardens, but what about the water from the final rinse cycle (ie. with now clean clothes and very little detergent - we use the totally phosphate free stuff).
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FollowupID: 473518

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:40

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:40
Technically it is still greywater ;-) The other issue is that you would have to install a completely seperate piping system otherwise the final rinse water would still be considered "contaminated" from the first cycles.

Remember that you can always irrigate subsurfacely or under mulch eg soaker hose under mulch, as long as the greywater doesn't come into direct contact with the veggies. There is also the argument that any vegetables that are cooked or have a thick skinned and peeled eg pumpkin etc, could be irrigated anyway.

BTW phosphates aren't necessarily bad for vegetables as many farmers apply organophosphates in any case, though reducing the phosphorous load is a good thing because the uptake of phosphorous is often less than the application rate. :-)

Andrew
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FollowupID: 473547

Reply By: phil - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:58

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 16:58
Hi,
Another thing worth looking at are systems that automatically sense whether tank water is available and use that, changing over to mains water otherwise.
An example is the "tankflush" from Tankworld
www.tankworld.com.au
They are intended for supplying toilet, laundry etc but could have other applications.

Phil I
AnswerID: 213241

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