80 series getting hot and poor fuel consumption.
Submitted: Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 19:08
ThreadID:
40943
Views:
5726
Replies:
16
FollowUps:
18
This Thread has been Archived
tmac74
I have read many posts in relation to my issues of overheating and poor fuel consumption. My vehicle is a 93, 80 series diesel GXL with 185,000kms, fitted with an after market safari turbo and intercooler. I am getting 5km per litre sitting on 110ks and if i choose to move up to 120 to 125 it gets hot and the air-con kicks off. I am driving in the far north west were the average temp is 35 degrees. I am concerned at the position of the intercooler in front of the radiator causing the issue. But i am at a loss to the fuel cons problem, i have put the car on a dyno and it has been leaned off a little but this still didnt help, i have fitted a PWR aluminium radiator a new thermostat, added more oil and checked the viscous hub and fan, removed
the spot lights and put ventalation holes in the front of bullbar, removed intercooler and condensor and checked for obstructions, sealed fully around the radiator with expanding foam replaced the air filter with genuine type, fitted new fuel filter and even made a deflector which pushes more air in to the radiator from under the bull bar in the hopes of eliminating the problem. Please help if you can i have spoken to many people in the game and im just about to pull all the after market bleep off and go back to a standard diesel !!!!!
Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 19:46
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 19:46
_________________________Why not add a Hyclone or two :)
AnswerID:
213695
Follow Up By: ross - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:52
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:52
The man is appealling for help,not sarcasm.
Oh oh ,heaven forbid you are not serious are you LOL
FollowupID:
474060
Follow Up By: tmac74 - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:28
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:28
I assume your at a loss to why this is happening also????
FollowupID:
474065
Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:30
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:30
I was not being sarcastic
____Hyclones work ____
ask anyone with one installed
FollowupID:
474066
Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:32
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:32
a compression test would be the first thing on my list of important things to check.
FollowupID:
474067
Reply By: acdc - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 19:47
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 19:47
tmac74,
Does it blow excessive black smoke?
Do you have a pyro gauge fitted?
Silly things to check..
Blocked or restricted exhaust.
Water pump impeller corroded away.
AnswerID:
213696
Follow Up By: tmac74 - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:11
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:11
I am interested as to why you would suggest to check or have the following items, the car has been on a dyno with a pyro and it hasnt been blowing smoke, the performance is good and if the
water pump was u/s i would assume it would overheat constantly, it has always been ok as long as you slow down and let it cool.. thanks acca
FollowupID:
474062
Follow Up By: acdc - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:42
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:42
Can you hear the viscous fan cutin when it starts to get hot?
Maybe also check the camshaft and pump timing marks if the belts been changed they may have got it wrong!
Always check the basic simple things first before jumping in the deep end!
FollowupID:
474071
Reply By: mattie - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 20:45
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 20:45
hi
my father inlaw's previos toyota tray back (he fitted a turbo to it) i think it was the current model had trouble with overheating and it was a new ute he also fitted a wind deflecter on the front, i think the over heating was caused by towing the van, i don't think it was an issue unlaiden, this doesn't help u but it seems to be a problem with fitting a turbo makes the engine work harder hence more heat.
Mattie
AnswerID:
213706
Reply By: GQ_TUFF - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 20:47
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 20:47
ouch thats a lot of work!!!! good luck mate, your poor fuel consumption could be from the fan running all the time because of the getting hot issue???? Now why is it getting hot??? Have you checked the radiator cap??? is it an auto??? auto getting hot and the radiator not cooling the fluid or the fluid heating the radiator???? Cars suck hey!!!
Good luck champ
Stefan
AnswerID:
213708
Follow Up By: tmac74 - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:05
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:05
Thanks for your input stefan the new radiator had a new cap and its a manual transmission, as to wether the fans running all the time no ones game to stick there head under the bonnet..
FollowupID:
474061
Reply By: Roughneck - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:54
Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:54
Hi tmac74 I know this might sound ridiculous but if you have a bug catcher infront of your radiator make sure that it has large enough holes for the air to get through shade cloth is a perfect example it will push your temp up by quiete a few degrees , any way just my thoughts cheers Roughneck.
AnswerID:
213731
Follow Up By: tmac74 - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:13
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:13
cheers Roughneck but no bug deflectors or anything unnecessary in front of this problem child..
FollowupID:
474063
Reply By: ross - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:09
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:09
I dont have a clear answer but my guess the bad fuel economy is causing the overheating.
An EGT gauge would confirm this
Has it ever run right and at which stage did it begin to guzzle and overheat.
I would do these things in this order.
1Radiator cap,the cheapest and most common way to fix an overheating problem
2Injector test
3Compression test
4Fuel pump bench tested.
AnswerID:
213751
Follow Up By: tmac74 - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:24
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:24
Cheers
ross now im getting into some interesting information, the car has never run right since i have owned it in the last three years, im the second owner and the first owner fitted the turbo etc so i dont have much of an idea as to how it was setup but i have contimplated throwing some injectors at it but i am concerned that it will be money wasted as it doesnt blow smoke etc????the last person i spoke to suggested a compression test which i will carry out in the next few weeks because i have access to the testing equipment. The last thing i was hoping to not have to do was to fit a new pump as
well. I am in an isolated town and bench testing doesnt happen unless you want to go without your car for a few weeks but if thats what it takes???
FollowupID:
474064
Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:37
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:37
Isolated town - where?
FollowupID:
474069
Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:49
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:49
Tmac ,Have you or anyone else checked to see if the pump is on its timing marks correctly.
I paid about $450inc GST to have a 1HZ pump stripped,cleaned and calibrated.
It had been sitting around for 4 years and the diesel inside had dried up.
Anyway with your problem, I suspect the PO or the person who installed the turbo has been fiddling with the pump for more power.
Injectors are normally serviced every 100000 klm I think so it may be time .
Normally costs $50-60 each and they can be mail ordered and you send the old ones back.
FollowupID:
474115
Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:41
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 00:41
How is the idle ??
rough or smooth, the same as previously??
how is the power up hills ??
less or much less??
AnswerID:
213755
Reply By: drewab - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:19
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:19
Tmac,
A few years ago I had drama's diagnosing a heating drama in my 96 DX with after market turbo. I spoke to few people who would look at the fan with engine running and say it was good. Another guy said replace viscous oil and add maybe 2 bottles. I did this, still no luck. I drove it up my test
hill and it overheated again, I pulled up at the top a was looking under the bonnet, just by chance I tried to grab the fan with the engine running ( silly I know but it was annoying me ) and still very hot. To my amazement I could stop the fan and spin it backwards. I replaced the viscous hub and no more drama's. I replaced it with a Davis Craig unit. Now I don't recommend people just reaching in and trying to grab their fans with the engine running, but that is how I found it. When driving up my test
hill the roar of the fan was very loud compared to before. Sorry it's long winded but hope it helps.
Cheers Drew
AnswerID:
213788
Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:41
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:41
Drew the viscous fan only works under about 40kph and then it turns itself off and would not be any help to Tmac as his problems of overheating are occurring at 110kph+.
In city driving a good viscous fan clutch is essential.
For the cost its better to buy new than refill. Ive been told that the spring inside is heat sensitive so if thats not working refilling is pointless.
FollowupID:
474113
Follow Up By: acdc - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 13:15
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 13:15
Fan only works under 40kph LOL!
FollowupID:
474118
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:39
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:39
Ross where/ who told you the viscous fan only works under 40klm ??? What a load of crap whoever told you that. They will work at any speed depending on radiator temperature. The spring at the front of the viscous coupling detects the temperature of the air flow through the radiator then locks in when required wether doing 20klm or 120 klm. 9 times out or ten you will here them cut in at higher speeds eg running air con and pulling up hills when really working the motor. I have just replaced myn on the old lux and even over the clatter of the old 2.8 you can still here the fan cut in at 100klms if it needs too. I think some ones been telling you porkys no offence to you. Regard Steve M
FollowupID:
474124
Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:41
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:41
"Fan only works under 40kph LOL!"
What speed do reckon it cuts in/out? I can hear
mine and it is a new OEM clutch.\
Maybe you string a reply longer than 3 or 4words and inform everyone exactly what happens.
FollowupID:
474125
Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:49
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:49
The whole idea is for it cut out and save fuel when it detects enough airflow.
Toyotas have different clutches for different engines and I think the colour indicates which one you have.
My 3F and both my 1HZ cut out at low speeds and none have a cooling problem.
My HZJ75 just did 2500klms in 30-40c temps
At 120 kph I doubt the fan could pull air faster than it is being rammed through
FollowupID:
474126
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:52
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 14:52
Hi
Ross,normally when you start the vehicle in the mornings you will hear the fan roar few maybe 10/20 seconds then it will fade out and it will only cut in when required. If you start your vehicle first thing when cold and you are not running air con which will transfer heat through the condensor which the clutch coupling will pick up and start to lock your fan in and you can still hear the fan roaring after say even a minute then the coupling is faulty. I was lucky with the hilux as
mine was locked on permanately and was roaring its nut off all the time also decreasing my power which I need every bit I can get in a 2.8. Since fitting the new coupling the fan fades out in the first 10 seconds then I wont hear from it unless I'm running air con or pulling up mooney mooney or the hawksbury which is when I will hear it start to wind up which is normally right towards the top and at a speed of about 90klms flat to the board in 4th gear. The fan will always be free wheeling otherwise when not locked in. Regards Steve M
FollowupID:
474127
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:10
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:10
Yes that is the idea it to cut out to save on power but even air flow alone is not enough some times. I had the exact same problem with my VL commodore years ago going down m4 from penrith and would start to heat up on me pop bonnet
check clutch fan and was roaring away so didnt think that was the issue untill I stuck a plastic spatular on the fan blades (decided not to use my hand) and could actually stop the fan with this which is meant for turning over eggs. Bought a brand new one and no problem. Was only last month that I was going to get the old girl turboed and he was asking about my clutch fan and he told me they load them up on the dyno 2 tests (1) with out there electric fan in front of the radiator they load it up and run it at 100klm to make sure that the clutch fan cuts in (2) then they do the same
test with there electric fans turned on but load it up even more to get the engine working its arse off so they can set the fuel pump and turbo up properly and to also make sure that once again clutch fan will cut in and they said it would when it is loaded up like it would be as they have even had to fit new clutch fans to there customers cars otherwise they would have heating issues with the addition of the turbo. He told me the worst out of all the vehicles were 80 series cruisers they stuff up alot. Even our commodore which we just sold which had twin electric thermo fans (factory fitted main cooling fans) even on a 44c day coming down the m4 they had 2 speeds slow which were when air con was on the other for maximum cooling I could here them from inside the car at 110 roaring there nut off sucking the air through to keep her cool which it did. I know that these are electric and not viscous but just showing that even at 110klm it needed the electric fans to cut in to cool her down. Regards Steve M
FollowupID:
474131
Reply By: Chucky - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:41
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:41
What pressure are you running, do you have a roof rack , tyre size, lift size, size of your exhaust? All these can effect your fuel useage.
And when you do the compresson
test it is a good idea to
test ht einjectors. O/hual them if needed.
You cooling system sounds like it is nearly all new except for you water pump. for a 100 bucks might be worth changing just in case.
Also I have had a large diesel engine overheat through a restricted turbo oil return line. The reduced oil flow throught the turbo caused the oil to get really hot and when it returned to the sump it was heating up the rest of the oil. What alot of people dont realise is that engine oil also cools the engine as
well as lubricates. If you are low in oil your engine temp will be higher.
Just to compare. I have a 94 80 with DTS turbo with top mounted I/C running 16 psi.3" man.bent exhaust. 33" tyres and steel bars all round. At 110km/hr I use just over 12lt/100km (about 8km/lt) and the temp dosn't move from half way. I have had it up to 150km/hr and although I dont know the fuel usage, (it was a fair bit thou), at that speed my temp didn't move on the guage.
Even fully loaded with towing a C/T and roof rack fitted, at 100km/hr I use 16lt/100km (about 6.5km/lt). And it dosn't effect my temp either.
However since you have replaced most of your cooling system I think your over heating is related to you using too much fuel. More fuel = more heat.
Don't remove the turbo either. You will hate driving the thing. Just by the process of elimination you gotta have the problem almost sorted.
Good luck.
AnswerID:
213796
Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:27
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:27
It is possibly as mentioned above some one might of had a slight play with the pump to gain some extra ponnies and as the turbo being fitted prior to your purchase it might have just been whacked on at
home and never been dynod properly and the pump set up and turbo. I think this needs to be done by professionals eg turbo
places, turboglide,another one which isnt aloud on here,west end diesel or by some one reputabal in your area. I would be leaning towards a new clutch coupling. You should be able to hear it cutting in at higher speeds if it doesnt and the temps climbing then its not cutting in and pulling enough air through. Air flow alone at 100klm is somtimes not enough and needs the clutch fan to cut in and pull the air through. Very common problems on the 80 series as the bloke at turboglide informed me a couple of months back. He reckons they were the most common fault of overheating. He also informed me not to fit davis craig coupling but go genuine which I did go genuine at more than double the price. Alot of people have used davis craig with out problems but I took the advice from some one that obviously fits alot of them up to vehicles.As far as fuel goes I have no idea unless its some thing to do with the excess temp or a combination of both. Regards Steve M
AnswerID:
213830
Reply By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:41
Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 15:41
Bad economy and overheating...restricted exhaust will keep the heat in at higher speed, and reduce engine power so foot ges down forther,.
Bad timing will do both aswell, foot goes down to make power, and more diesel, more heat....
Injecters should be done every 100,000...yes i know dont touch, but the do slowly clog, and the result of not wantiong to touch is glazed bores.
Sooo. try the compression,
check the timing, remove the muffler and drive it like that....even see if it rattles because a baffle has broken free in th muffler....that could be all it is...
Also
snorkel with a foam doover stuck in it....seen it b4....
Im thinking also someone at some stage has been into this motor and put the cam timing back wrong....something simple like that is all it will be.
Andrew
AnswerID:
213833
Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:56
Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:56
Have you tried fitting a new thermostat with a lower opening temperature?
Ray
AnswerID:
213982
Reply By: Member - Robert (WA) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:37
Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:37
Hi Tmac
One way of testing the themo fan in the drive way is to fit a some cardboard in front of the radiator totally and start the engine and bring the idle up watch the temperature rise and listen for the fan to cut in (you will hear it roar)
if the temp is getting close to the red line and the fan has not cut in you need a new thermo
Good luck
Robert
AnswerID:
214088
Reply By: tmac74 - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 20:29
Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 20:29
Thanks to every one for there help after i have tried all of these remedies fingers crossed i will have joy!!!I will surely reply to let everyone know what the problem ends up being so other people can get the benefit of reading this thread, Ta tmac74
AnswerID:
214100
Reply By: landseka - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 22:57
Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 22:57
Hi tmac, this is probably totally irrevelant but what the heck.
Many years ago I had a car with similar problem in that at over 100kph from memory it would start to get hot, slow down a bit & all would be good again.
It turned out to be a soft (aged) bottom radiator hose which at a certain rpm would suck itself in til it collapse on itself & no more coolant flow, back off the pace a bit & all was
well again.
New hose & no more problems.
Hopefully your problem is as simple.
Regards
Neil.
AnswerID:
214146
Reply By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Tuesday, Jan 09, 2007 at 09:49
Tuesday, Jan 09, 2007 at 09:49
I have also had a 1hz with a hose cavitating on itself causing overheating. but I doubt that is you're problem. We fitted an aftermarket turbo to my brothers 78 series ute and had exactly the same problem I would be leaning towards an water to air intercoller to keep the engine temps down. If you're engine is still overheating it could possibly be a cracked head?? or the motor is stuffed? I have seen people fit aftermarket turbo's on new 100 series and them not overheating but then they are a new motor so that might help.
AnswerID:
214196