Reseating tubeless tyres

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:02
ThreadID: 41099 Views:5041 Replies:17 FollowUps:30
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I know this has been a prior topic but I can't find the answer I'm looking for. What I'm after is the amount of air in litres I need as a minimum to reseat a tubeless?

Prior discussions were about the poor performance of our little compressors in delivering the volume to do this well AND someone fessed up that they use a canister type device in the trucking game. Got myself one of those screw on to the valve devices but now need to deliver the air.

Mentioned this to my travelling companion the other day and he converted an old 21 ltr compressor tank by mounting his big red compressor on top - easily held 100 PSI. The tank is little on the large side so if any one knows and wouldn't mind sharing. How many litres and at what pressure will give me sufficient volume of air to sit that tyre on the rim?

Kind regards
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Reply By: Tony - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:17

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:17
The best way I have seen to seat a tyre is to use a bike tube the same size as the rim. Inflate the tube which acts as a seal then inflate the tyre.

I have used a rachet strap with good results.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:22

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:22
G'day Tony,

Thanks, how did the bike tyre trick work? I would imagine that it would get pinched between the tyre and the rim.

Just looking to do this smarter not harder after having done a couple on a trip I needed the rest of the day off to recover!!!

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Tony - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:29

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:29
The bloke at the Coenworkshop was doing it. The tube fitted just inside the lip of the rim and the tyre, as he inflated the tyre and you could tell it was seated he let the air out of the bike tube and pulled it out the fulley inflated the tyre. It looked very simlpe but affective.
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:04

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:04
I've used this method as well and it works. I have also removed the valve from the stem, thrown about 2 tablespoons of metho in the tyre and ignited it- seats nicely, and less dangerous than gas, but don't do it in dry country.
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Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:33

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:33
The quickest/ easiest way to reseat a tubeless tyre is put the tyre onto the rim with both beads loose inside the rim edges and the valve in the correct position through the valve hole. Lie the wheel flat. Slosh about a third of a cup of petrol into the tyre so it runs around inside the tyre and dribble a bit over and edge and outside the tyre so it can be used as a "fuse". Stand a couple of metres back and flick something alight at the fuse. There will be a fair bang and the tyre and rim will jump a couple of feet into the air. The tyre will now be perfectly sealed onto the rim. The exploding petrol pushes is the walls out hard onto the rim. The seal made extinguishes the petrol immediately. No damage to tyre. (Don't do this with diesel however, it burns too slowly and your tyre may go up in smoke.
This trick is used extensively in Central Oz and is also taught by some 4WD courses.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:37

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:37
Ok, that sound easy enough but I would like to see some piccies of this approach in action. Now I'm not dismissing this outright but it sounds a tad risky! Have you tried this?

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:50

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:50
Wow DIY pyrotechnics!

Does sound a bit risky, but then again the devil on my shoulder is itching to see it done!!

sounds fun LOL

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:52

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:52
Yea, have heard many people telling this story, but yet to see someone do it in person...

The other oen is Aerostart in there.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:54

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:54
So who lives in a bush setting with a sacreficial rim and tyre? Or is this one for the myth busters?

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:02

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:02
Saw a video of this on YouTube a few weeks ago - buggered if I know which one it was in though. But there was no "jumping up in the air" - it was done with the tyre leaning against a wall and the match was applied by hand - just a big POP and the tyre jumped an inch or so.

Rather someone else's hand there than mine though! Sounds like something that could easily get messy for all nearby.
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Follow Up By: AdlelaideGeorge - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:19

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:19
nah - that's a girl's method! You'll get great results from 2 sticks of gelignite (nitro's better but harder to come by). 1 stick goes inside the tyre and the other one under the car. When they blow, you go up in the air as well, catch the tyre on its way down and - hey presto the tyres blown up and back on the car before it reaches the ground. Seen it done plenty of times.
Happy days!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:47

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:47
heres a few..

" target="EOF" class="lbg">www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI0vi_z2Gys
Site Link
Site Link
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:51

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:51
Site Link
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:59

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:59
OK I'm convinced!
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Follow Up By: srowlandson - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 20:54

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 20:54
I have done this trick with petrol and putane.

works a treat, tyre pops and bead sealed, tyre barely moves, makes you jump though.

I did have some video footage once, might re shoot some and post to the net.

Steve
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Follow Up By: hoyks - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 21:52

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 21:52
I was told that the best fuel is Aerostart or Startyabastard.
Just a short squirt down the valve stem (valve removed) and apply match. It's a good idea to keep your face away too as it takes a while for your eyebrows to grow back.
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Follow Up By: hoyks - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 21:57

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 21:57
Now I looked at the links, that's the stuff
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 22:07

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 22:07
YEP I HAVE GOTTA HAVE A GO AT THAT!!

Miss-spent youth & playing with matches/wd40, it's all coming back now!!

Wonder if I'll have a flat this weekend?? 8 )>
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Reply By: Ron173 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:37

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:37
Make up a hose with a schrader (std car tyre valve) female on both ends, with a small stop valve on one end before the other schrader female, use the type that are used on compressors that lock onto the tyre valve.

Then over inflate another tyre which is on the vehicle with your compressor.

Connect one end to the over inflated tyre, connect other to one you want to seat bead on, open valve, keep fingies clear! big bang - job done.

The extra air plus the weight of the vehicle will act as a large high pressure reservoir.

If done correctly it should not completely deflate the other tyre, even if it does it wont break bead so you just re inflate and adjust pressures in each as reqd.

Sounds complicated but once you make up the hose its a piece of cake, just keep it with you on road.

Hope this helps

Ron
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:42

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:42
Thanks Ron, I have heard of this before but was wondering if the valve stem in the donor tyre would slow the air flow sufficiently to make this not work? Or are you suggesting to remove the stem out of the donor tyre as well?

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:57

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:57
Sorry, forgot that, yes unscrew the valve and quickly remove as you put the connector on it, then you have pressure in the hose, held by the valve. you will only lose a small amount if your quick. I have a small 90 deg valve like you get on workshop compresor outlets.
Also use a large hose, I have about 25mm dia compressor hose so air transfer is not impeded, same with the stop valve, use one that is large bore when opened.

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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:00

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:00
That makes sense, so how much pressure do you put into the donor tyre? I take it too much will damage that as well.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:18

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:18
Its a while since I done it but from memory think it was bout 60psi, generally just go by feel, your not driving on it so damage unlikely unless you go mad with it.

Depends on tyre size, load in vehicle etc. you can see when tyre is getting up there, you dont need a great deal extra as it works more on volume rather than pressure.

Best thing is try it at home n play with it till you get it right, I havent done it on my present vehicle, still keep hose in there incase, but last time was a while back on the work ute. I tend to just carry tubes nowadays.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:53

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:53
What tires? what rims? how old and stiff are the tires..

no "YOU NEED X LTRS" answer I wouldnt think..
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:57

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:57
Talking standard 4WD 16" jobs, new tyres so plenty of flex and a fresh inner bead ( ie not chewed up).

Kind regards
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Reply By: Mike - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:32

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:32
Those methods may be fine for the thrill seekers, but this is easy and a lot safer.
Tie a rope or tie-down around the tread so the bead is in contact with the beads on the rim and just inflate normally. remember to loosen the rope as the beads seat. I have done this with an ordinary ARB compressor and it works fine. Remember to put detergent or any lubricant on the beads that will help them slide into place and aid the seal during inflation.

happy trails, Mike.
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:51

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:51
Mike, I tend to agree, I've used the rope/ratchet strap method & they work but a bit fiddly on your own.

I usually just lube up both beads if they're off, bang the rim on to the inside bead with a good mallet, then lean the tyre up against something handy & push the rim/pull the tyre against the outside rim & inflate!

Lotsa lube & a bit of elbow grease & they're on.

I practice in the garage when I'm bored occasionally, one Saturday I was playing with the trailer tyres & ended up swapping rims tyres on both neighbours trailers & a couple of 4bys as well, I ended up swapping/changing 20 odd tyres that day!!

Lotsa Fun!! 8 )>
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Reply By: MickO13 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:50

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:50
Seen this done and it works well. Person used a heavy duty rachet tiedown with a strap about 6cm wide (seen them in Supacheap Auto for about $50 a pair). Strap was placed in the middle of the tread of the tyre then just ratcheted tight until the beads were hard on the rim. Plenty of dishwashing detergeant for lubrrication and a standard little compressor. The ratchet made it easier to release also. Cheers.
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AnswerID: 214656

Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:05

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:05
Oh ye of little faith!!
There was a thread about 2 years ago that discussed this and several posts confirmed the petrol method as being fine. Mind you, I can understand the scepticism until you have seen it done. The thread also connected to a video of some USA 4wders who used diesel with most unfortunate results. I hadn't thought of using aerosol; starter. Sounds good as I run a diesel and on the two occasions I have done this, I had to find someone with petrol.
There must be someone reading this from around Alice where this is done who can confirm this?? I will try to contact a couple of Central Oz mates to see if they can add to this thread.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:14

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:14
You would have to admit that there seems to be little more risk here then say having your toast in the morning? I presume that something a little more than the recommended dose will produce something other than intended.

Theoretically I'd imagine that the loss of oxygen as the tyre sealed should extinguish the flame BUT a small error like the dam tyre failing to seat will result in one of thos burning necklaces I have seen (in pictures only off course) used in South Africa.

Kind regards
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Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:11

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:11
Petrol safety is always an issue, however I think the most dangerous part of this is in taking care with the original petrol container from which you get you third of a cup. Like, I would make sure it was resealed and well away from the action before lighting anything. Not something I would do around the campfire either. While it looks spekky, in reality I don't think it is any more dangerous than refilling a petrol stove. I like the aerosol alternative suggestion given in this thread.
I am trying to contact someone who I know uses this technique (and who many readers of this site probably know and would acknowledge as someone who knows what they are doing.) I don't want to name him without his permission. I have suggested to him that he has a look at the thread and adds more info if he so chooses. So far he hasn't replied, so he may well be out bush and not able to pick up emails for some time. Dunno.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:18

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:18
Thank you and it would be great to hear from others, now again that doesn't mean I don't believe you. It would seem like a serious macho camping trick that would certainly promote you to the title of serious bushie if you pulled that one off in front of a crowd!

kind regards
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:18

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:18
I used to do this a fair bit in the past, but got lazy.

We use plugs on all our tubeless punctures - no sweat, then get a tyre shop to fix or replace back home. Just plug them on the car.

The hardest ones to reinflate are the 265 tyres on an 8 inch wide rim. On a 7 inch rim, theres no problems at all - they go straight up with nothing more than a pump.

Air tanks are usually of limited capacity - we do Ron's trick of using another tyre with 80psi in it as the tank. Simple hose between the two works fine, but I use a 3-way hose so the pump is continually reinflating.

The rope around the tyre doesn't work as well on radials as it did on crossplies. The tread tends to buckle in before the beads push sideways.

Never was good at the DIY pyrotechnics. I also carry the 16inch bike tube, but have not needed it.
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Reply By: cowpat - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:56

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 13:56
It also helps if the rims are on the narrow rather than wide size for your tyres.
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Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 14:28

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 14:28
I have received my reply. Jol Fleming is the Director/advanced 4WD trainer at Direct 4WD Awareness in Alice Springs. He also does excellent tagalong tours. You can find his website at
www.direct4WD.com.au
The site is also a useful collection of info on many aspects of 4WDing in the Centre. He is a longterm central Oz resident with a vast wealth of experience. As I said earlier, many readers of this forum who have travelled in the Centre or had dealings with The Outback 4WD Club probably know him. Having discussed this with him, he says he might put an article re the reseating technique on the site. In the meantime he is happy for anyone who wants more info to ring him on 0408 485 641
Jol made a couple of further comments. He suggests one quarter cup is sufficient. He also recommends that if the technique doesn't reseal after one try, allow plenty of air back into the tyre before you try it again.

Beatit, I am much amused and flattered at a possible macho image. I would have thought from my previous posts and the responses to them that I was more likely to have been pigeonholed as a do-gooder- chardonnay swilling- pinko-greenie.

It really isn't as mindboggling a trick as it sounds on first hearing.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 14:37

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 14:37
"I was more likely to have been pigeonholed as a do-gooder- chardonnay swilling- pinko-greenie" - that might be true but deep in there is a fuel burning pyromaniac I'm sure. This discusion has prompted me to conteplate (yes I know it aint doing) taking some old tyres and rims I have in the shed and giving that a go.

Kind regards
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Reply By: Ron173 - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:22

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 16:22
I do now actually recall seeing the petrol trick on you tube video.

It was a bunch of blokes basically driving a fourbie, which I reckon they mustve stolen, till they wrecked it, and in the process got a puncture and did the trick thing.

as said above, tyre was up against a wall and he used a match, not sure the accelerant was petrol from memory I think he sprayed something in it, same theory... rapid expansion of air by combustion... prob many flammable substances would do it.

I do recall it was just a small flame and it popped on, didnt jump in air.

If I can find it I will post a link.

Ron
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Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:22

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:22
Yeah, it was the guys trashing the Jeep in the UK.
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 17:32

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 17:32
Beatit,

I stopped reading the replies when they stated talking about petrol and the big bang theory.

If they only had a good compressor in the first place.

I have a Big Red and that has enough volume to re-seat a tubeless tyre. After removing the valve, running the motor to make sure the volts don't drop and applying some no explosive soapy water the tyre will pop back onto the rim. Once the tyre has seated the valve can be replaced and the tyre inflated to the required pressure.

I know this for a fact as I have done it several times out in the bush and as a demonstration when we do the advance driver training course.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 18:54

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 18:54
Wayne,
Back in the 70's I used to reseat tubeless tyres with a hand pump - that was all I had back then, but the tyres were smaller on the Corolla wagon I took outback. If you pump fast enough, and did everything else right, it was OK.

The only tyres I've not been able to do on an electric pump are 265's on 8 inch rims.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:48

Friday, Jan 12, 2007 at 08:48
G"day Wayne,

Was out your way (Penrith South) over Xmas and contemplated driving past the shopping centre to spot your truck but ran out of time.

My original question was more about dumping a large volume of air to reseat a tyre, I've also done the compressor approach twice but I found it a lot of hard work. The answer seemed to be in solving the volume of air available. BTW the second tyre was off a disco and the rim has a safety ridge just on the edge of the rim which we just could not get past without the air escaping.

Having said all that, I will now make up an air transfer hose as suggested by another contributor as this makes some sense but will lock away in the back of my leaky mind the petrol approach because it is very quick! (will try it on some old gear I have at home)

Kind regards
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Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 17:46

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 17:46
Umm.
Having seen the utube links from Truckster, I don't do it their way. Far too much flame all over the place. I think this is because they are spraying the ether around the outside of the tyre in a pretty haphazard fashion. I put the petrol inside the tyre with just a small lead going over one spot as a fuse. No slopping it all over the place. There is one simple bang and it is done. No flames. Can I also suggest that you don't stand next to it like those idiots and you sure as hell don't run back to pick up the burning rag like those guys do in one of the clips if it doesn't go off immediately. That is asking for trouble. I also don't do the giggle (at least, I don't think I do.)

Incidentally, if you check out the info from my expert, Jol Fleming, have a read of his life story on the site. It's a good read and he has done some amazing stuff. Territorian of the Year 2002 and the key organizer of the Finke race for many years. And that is only a small bit of his story. A genuine 4WD legend.
I would bet that Jol would also want to disassociate himself from some of the technique on the clips. But they do show that it works.
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Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 20:44

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 20:44
At last I have found a use for my Mother in Law,

I am going to invite her on our next trip and get her to do the petrol pyrotechnics bit if I get a puncture.

Thanks heaps

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:08

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:08
I thought she was going to provide the hot air.............
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Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:18

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:18
Oh I am so happy I have gone back to splits again........:-D

Cheers
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Reply By: Bilbo - Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:41

Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at 23:41
Hmmmmmm,very interesting stuff. I do my own tyres in the bush and there's some good ideas here.

How about using some of that foam gap sealer that comes in an arsole can . Spray it around the edges of the tyre/rim joint and then start pumping with the air compressor.

Would it work?

Bilbo
AnswerID: 214832

Follow Up By: Tony - Friday, Jan 12, 2007 at 07:04

Friday, Jan 12, 2007 at 07:04
Should do but would be a bugger to clean out afterwards.
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