Theory or not

Sounds like a great idea. If you don't tell it's 2wd they wouldnt know!!!
Ha ha.

Hi Truckster
The problem is the main market is the Toorak Tractor set, and those of us that want to go bush and get dirty are the minority. If our market was larger we would have the situation in the USA where many of the 4WD come in 2WD format as well.
At least Nissan is still making what you want Truckster
Raywanderin' in retirement. victor 2010

It's an aspirational market. They buy the car, hoping that one day they will be able to go bush (park on the nature strip). So while a 2 wd would fulfill most of their real needs, the lack of 4WD badge, and not being able to identify with hoons on the 4WD ads would seriously erode market appeal. Its a bit like the poseurs who dress up in drizabones to go to the rugby- they think thay are identifying with the rugged Aussie bush heritage, even though they live in a townhouse and caught the bus to the ground. The only real requirement is for a big slit next to the pocket so they can get their hand in to where it will spend most of its time;-)

might make it hard too find good second hand 4wd later,what i recon would sell well is full size twin cabs[100sor patrol]

Truckster, your argument is fatally flawed from its opening statement "Most people are getting tired of 4wds turning into Plastic Rolls Royces . . .". If 'most' people were unhappy with the style of modern 4WD vehicles there would be a very small market for them, as opposed to your quoted figure of 90+%. Surely it is the prerogative of consumers to purchase the vehicle that THEY believe is most suited to their needs whether they live in Toorak or Broadmeadows, or are mums, dads or singles. Believe it or not nobody dictates which vehicle you - Truckster drive, as long as you do it within the laws of the land.

Why do the "mum's taxi", "Toorak taxi" set intimidate you to the such an extent that you feel the need to incite acrimony from your peers in a forum such as this? An inferiority complex? I hope not. Imagine if the mum's of Australia (who outnumber the 'real' 4WDers substantially) got together a lobby group to ban ALL off road travel because they felt that all cars should be 'cute and cuddly'. Imagine your outrage.

I don't know if my choice of 4WD fits into your genre of 'real' or 'plastic crap'. To be honest I don't care! It suits our needs, and by the way it does come as a 2WD which is the chosen vehicle of many, many tradespeople and is about $20,000 cheaper, as you suggested.

This missive is not intended to be offensive or derogatory. I tend to bet a little worked up when I see an attempt to trivialise or denegrate those who do not conform to a specific set of personal guidelines.

Most road accidents when it comes to 4x4s are plastic drivers anyway;
ie. mum can't drive it in the carpark, some loser on the grogg driving back from a city niteclub, the fact the non-offroader needs to drive a 'bully' vehicle in peak hour traffic, in my town there's always somebody with all the fruit driving around social nitelife places like Northbridge or Fremantle - they just drive around and around all night long - to those people, get a life.
These people are the ones giving the real 4x4ers bad names hence all these do-gooders saying they should be banned or restricted to country residents - I think there's a few different ideas put forward.
One bloke that want's all of them to go is that d*ckhead of the Australian Pedestrian Council. About a year ago on TT or ACA he was going on about bullbars and was almost screaming blue murder because one car they came across in the street had a winch on it.
-Give me a break, if you're going to ban 4x4s you'd better ban trucks, V8 Commodores, because at high speed they will chew up a pedestrian just as well as the front diff of a 4x4.
Love the bush.
Chris

Interesting discussion...
The good thing about the type of people Truckster talks of is that it makes more good 4WDs available second-hand.
The bad things include marketing pressure changing the way these cars are built, AND the way a lot of these people drive- just go near a school in the am or pm and watch some of these mums (and dads) drop off and pick up their children- very scary stuff!! They are probably not worse drivers than the parents in tiny cars, but they have far more potential to do damage to others (and the enviroment.) No wonder so many children are run over by (reversing) 4WDs!
We do however live in a free country- there will hopefully always be a choice, and hopefully legislation will not have too much say in what we drive- although some in power are trying to take that choice from us. That is what we need to fight against... For example those trying to ban 'roo bars. Can you begin to imagine if they ever got that one in to law- it could happen!
Cheers

You certainly stirred things up Truckster, and trying to revert to the old way won't get you anywhere with the manufacturers or the legistlators.
It's much easier for vehicles to be made with crap plastic and throw away parts, and according to the pedestrian council we're all maniacs looking for someone to crush with our bull bars.
I can't see how it's any different being hit by a vehicle with one, as one without, you're still going to end up hurt.
As long as the bar is not the type which leans forward away from the front and throws the pedestrian on to the road to be run over, what's the problem?
As for mothers running their little darlings over, have any of those involved in pedestrian/road safety ever watched the speed at which some of these loony mothers reverse!
And why the hell don't they check where the kids are before racing out into the road.
They're always late, car full of kids, especially the people mover designer delivery vans they love so much, dashing around the streets running other kids over to get their own to school on time!
And watch those legistlators, they don't do all that travel overseas for the benefit of you and I, it's for holidays and to check out what other rules they can come up with, especially some of the garbage from the EU, to make life just a bit less free.
Of course, it's all for the common good!

Wow. I think you all have too much time on your hands to argue. Go back to work and maybe you could all afford to go off-road more. haha.

:)

I drive a 100 series Turbo because it the best F___ing thing on a corrugated gravel road i have ever driven - in standard mode!! Let alone with some relatively inexpensive suspension changes..... And hey, when you travel 180km of this road per day, would you rather 100 series with sterile environment and Bruce Springsteen C.D's, or 20-30 year old Toyota or Nissan with rattles and sore back?

I say each to theie own.

I still think it is a great forum, however threads like this remind me of American Anger Forums...,.

Toe.

interesting discusion
the problem of producing a 2wd version is not as simple as just leaving off the diff & transfer case design changes would be required to compensate for the loss of the parts ect thus adding costs, the other problem would be that the 2wd version may well sell well & the 4wd version would sell to a smaller market & there for may not be economicly viable thus leading to the demise of the very machine you want, as to other isues ie bull bars & pedestrians we have alot to worry about becauce while we argue with each other the enamy gets closer to the gate,we must if we are to survive unit not only those who drive 4wd offroad but embrase the yuppy poser & any other form of 4wd owner & along with those we must unit all parts of the industry from accessories &motor vehicle sellers through to 4wd workshops &any person who supplies 4wd owners,& also bring it to this group the land managers with whom our continued survival rests united we stand devided we sell out
jm2cw
Bruce

interesting discusion
the problem of producing a 2wd version is not as simple as just leaving off the diff & transfer case design changes would be required to compensate for the loss of the parts ect thus adding costs, the other problem would be that the 2wd version may well sell well & the 4wd version would sell to a smaller market & there for may not be economicly viable thus leading to the demise of the very machine you want, as to other isues ie bull bars & pedestrians we have alot to worry about becauce while we argue with each other the enamy gets closer to the gate,we must if we are to survive unit not only those who drive 4wd offroad but embrase the yuppy poser & any other form of 4wd owner & along with those we must unit all parts of the industry from accessories &motor vehicle sellers through to 4wd workshops &any person who supplies 4wd owners,& also bring it to this group the land managers with whom our continued survival rests united we stand devided we sell out
jm2cw
Bruce

You probably all know that the Holden Jackaroo is sold in the US as the Isuzu Trooper. Over there it comes in 2WD or 4WD.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a 2WD version, but as a people mover it may not be too bad. At least they havethe choice.
Trev

Just hang on to those pre 1990 model trucks, keep them in good nick and in 10 years they'll be worth mega bucks, cause all that will be around to drive (maybe not drive) will be a truck that you dont even need to drive. It will be 99% plastic composite, all the thinking will be done via roadside computer. Fly by wire accelerator pedals will be overiden by roadside speed controllers to ensure that all cars travel at exactly the same speed as will fly by wire steering, that will be controlled by microchips embedded in the road surface. Shifting gears will be a thing of the past as there will be variable speed drive belts (you will have forward, reverse and park) Mechanics wont need to have mechanical expertise as all they need to do is plug the thing in and repairs will be done by the analyser.
THEN GUESS WHAT.
Some manufacturer in 2020 will have a great idea! Lets make a four wheel drive truck without all the gizmos, you know like it was back in the 1980's. Trouble is there wont be anybody around who can build one.

I think most of you are missing the point! Because most 4wds are sold for kidmobiles for travel to and from school, when they are taken serious terrian driving they break. The manufacturers design the things with end use statistics in mind. The odd one that breaks is just a minor blip and not worth worrying about but to you and I that rely on the things being reliable it is a major problem. There is nothing worse than being 100s of ks from anywhere and the thing wont go! I know most manufacturers offer a "come and get it free" warranty but will they in the middle of the Great Sandy Desert? Has anyone had this experience? Did they come?

The real problem is the "Mum's taxi/Toorak tractor/ Chappel street cruiser" that don't have a damned clue about the height/width/length of their vehicles, nor the dynamics of driving a vehicle with a high center of gravity. The easiest fix would be to have a seperate licence endorsement for 4WD vehicles over 1.5 tonne (similar to HR licence etc) with a set series of practical tests (4WD and on road) and written/oral/practical tests on basic 4WD recovery procedures,safe speeds etc. This would make it unpalatable for most "Mums" and the hoon element to go through just to drive a "show pony", while still allowing them to own most softroaders. I believe the majority of recreational 4WDers would have no qualms about sitting for an endorsement of their licence that instills a basic knowledge of their vehicles' abilities and weak points, as well as basic 4WD safety and recovery procedures. I would envisage the relevant state 4WD Associations could assist the licencing bodies of the states in running the relevant tests.

Either that, or we could remove all the airbags in the "Toorak tractors/Hoonmobiles/"Mums taxis" and replace them with 12" metal spikes. Maybe then they would pay a bit more attention to their driving and the road.....

Then the manufacturers could refocus their attention on real 4WDs and real 4WDers (country folk, tradesmen, and recreational 4WDers)

See some of the earlier posts along the lines of "Now I've bought my new 100 series cruiser I suppose I'd better get some real suspension/shockers/rims/tyres fitted". On a brand new 4WD vehicle??? Shouldn't they be providing at least serviceable products, ie. fit for purpose (a legal requirement). What is the point of selling a vehicle that can't take 4-5 people (or their rated capacity) and a full tank of fuel, without being over the GVM.

The word is PROGRESS ,whether we like it or not it is the shape of things to come, Truckster it only shows yours and my age to "lust" after the way things were ,,,do you realy think that manufacturers will go TRUE retro?? not if they want to stay viable,,
How many people would actualy buy a TOTALY STANDARD vehicle if it was made today ,,,very very few,.

This may give away my age (young fella under 50 - just). Once there was just Landies - the FJ was the average mans's vehicle. Then Les Thiess started importing Tojos during construction of the Snowies.

Now we have a revolution on our hands - a 4By without a low box - well a bit of a compromise aint it .

It is a worry that the trend is to lighter and lighter. True, I remember when the two banger Zook first arrived - then all the cockies started to buy them - a good little go most places bus - just a bit short on speed, room and creature comforts.

A point made in an earlier post is that it is good to be able to drive for a whole day in our fair land and not be cooked, battered and covered in dust. Thus the modern 4WD has evolved (Patrol & Cruiser) into a far more comfortable vehicle. Progress does not stand still, however, I must say that I chuckle at carpets in a 4WD (still then the accesso shop can sell you some fancy mats for $$$ and all those HD bolt on bits to replace the plastic crap)

I mean in reality we are left with the Defender, Patrol and Cruiser utes, the Troopy and Patrol and Cruiser wagons for those who like some room. The twin cabs fill a gap but you wont find me sitting in the back seat for a day!!!. Serious - maybe the Landie will re-invent itself (no pun intended) as the wagon of choice for serious offroaders (but with a/c, p/s etc). Meanwhile all the other manufacturers chase the big sales and end up with a all fancy wagon that looks good but won't hack the pace in the bush.

Mr Scruby and his mates - well yeah , I say the small dog makes all the noise. An earlier post of Trucksters showed a very good reason for having a bar. If you looked carefully at that photo another 10mm and the roo would have gone over the bonnet.When I was a little kid I remember hearing of an accident involving a FB Holden where a roo went through the screen and took out 2 people. Scruby and his mates have introduced an Australian Standard with backward sloping bars - perhaps the Yanks will come looking for our WMD's - imagine a Falcon or one of those other low nosed cars hitting a roo at speed - into the screen. If any one gets a roo through the screen - sue Scrubes. (Any way if you hit a pedestrian with one, you would be able to blame the fellow behind who runs him/her over.)

Truckster - you stirred the pot on this one.

Seriously, there are a range of vehicles out there and the RAV's are bloody brilliant at speed bumps and corrugated gravel and I guess each to their own. (I'm into Patrols personally)

Anyway after my ramblings I say why dont we invent an Ozz-Mobile - after all we now export something like $5bn worth of vehicles per year to the rest of the world (and import Daewoos with Aussie made motors in them).
Now all you hard core 4WD's can have your cake and eat it too!! LMAO - if we could agree on the specifications!!. Built local and jobs for the locals too

Given the performance of super funds lately maybe I have hit on a good investment!!!



Pete G

Truckster if you wait long enough all that was old will be new again a good ie: PT cruiser...the new mini ...flaired jeans ...hippy style clothing ,if you can stay alive long enough you will see the return of what your heart desires it will just cost 10 times as much as you hopedBorn to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard
Peter York 4x4

Excellent thread everyone - well done all contributors. Picking up on one of the suggestions I too would love to see a real Aussie 4WD. Something along the lines of the Oka but with a few refinements. A modern German turbo diesel would be important to me, but maybe an Aussie petrol six and V8 as variants. It would be a large vehicle (as big as L/C or Rangie) but more Oka like with cabin and ute variants. Every time I see a Hummer in the war I go for the pocket in the Drizabone. Australia needs its own Hummer but more economical and affordable. It really is pathetic that we rely on Japan and Europe for our bush transport.

Most people missed the point.

Im not shatting on people who USE their 4wd for offroading regularly!

bleep Im in the stats on GOING OFF ROAD REGULARLY.....

Im saying for the Toorak group/George St Farmers that never get past the Coles gravel carpark, and wouldnt know how to put it in 4wd....

Wouldnt they be better off with a car that doesnt have 4wd, but has the image they are after, and the height they **THINK** is safer, and comes cheaper than a 4wd....

Theres ya future to be scared of..... ??

one of the funny storys ill never forget we had a party at lake eppalock and we had a friend of the bday boys friend come up from melb.he had just bought a gq patrol a few weeks earlier and was interested in doing a little bush driving so i said ok follow me .we came across a pretty big bog hole soi stuck it in 4 high and away i went.well at the other side i was waiting for hi9m to follow but he didnt,so i got out and asked whats the problem and he asked what did you do to the front wheels before you crossed.so i explained about locking the hubs in and putting it in 4wd.away he went and down she goes rear wheels spining and stop.i get out and ask him if he put it in 4 high and he asked whats that so i told him about the other lever and what it does he didnt even know he had another lever.any way he did that and got out real quick.well back at camp that night i noticed he was spending a lot of time looking at the car and i had to know what he was looking at.he says look its muddy .im going to work on monday and im not even going to wash it.hes been invited away a few times but he wont come because hes scared of hurting the car and its a pain to wash.thats my tale and i think its very funnylooking foward to easter at jamieson

I want to know more about this "throw on mud" product !

I have never heard of this , do people realy do that ???



I also agree that they are LOOOOSSSSERSSSS !!!

Oh yeah, no real point to this post other than helping Truckster gain the most responded to thread ! LOL.

Previous : 28 resp and 44 follow ups to David Exploreoz


5 more to go !!!

T R U C K S T E R - L E G E N D !

Truckster now you have to do better whats the next comment on ?POLITICS,RELIGION,SEX,??????????????????????Born to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard
Peter York 4x4

C'mon Truckster, can't you think of a question which will provoke some serious discussion...
BTW I finally sent my fan clutch to Berrima to get fixed- if the result isn't good I'll know who to blame!!!!! Next job is the turbo.
Have a good one and cheers!!

just thought i would through a cat into the dog ring to see if we could realy extend this baby,so here goes : its just as well ozi explorer is no longer with us or this thread would heaps longer & more volitolie.
if this dosnt give you a wining boost truckster nothing will

Truckster

Biggest problem would be that most 4WDers buy their toys secondhand.
ex lease or ex mums taxi.

This idea could reduce the number available for those who really want to go 4WDing.
Could lead to a new industry converting 2WDs into 4WDs. 8-)))Andrew - 1999 GU ST 4.2Turbodiesel Wagon
Whyalla SouthOz
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/4wd_out_of_adelaide