Theory or not

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:47
ThreadID: 4162 Views:1955 Replies:28 FollowUps:64
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Most people are getting tired of 4wds turning into Plastic Rolls Royces with 1% capability of older 4wds due to the "mums taxi" syndrome taking 90+% of market share of 4wds.

What if they made 100 series/Rangies/Patrols/Pajeros/Jackaroos etc that were 2wd only... They would be 1000's cheaper with no transfer case, front diffs etc etc... LOTS cheaper! Who cares how soft and cute and cuddly they would be.

Then they could make 4wds like 4wds... Coils all round, real gearing, real solid cars, real articulation, not plastic crap!

Question is would the 2wd versions sell do you think?
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Reply By: Member - Pedro - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:52

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:52
Sounds like a great idea. If you don't tell it's 2wd they wouldnt know!!!
Ha ha.
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Follow Up By: joc45 - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:24

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:24
My sister has a Pajero to take the kids to school and to sport.
She got it stuck once, and had to ask a passer-by how to select 4wd!
But it does get dirty on the 300m section of gravel into their country holiday home.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:36

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:36
I hope they have upgraded the suspension and tires for that 300m stretch... also bullbar and winch!
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Reply By: Member - Raymond - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:06

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:06
Hi Truckster
The problem is the main market is the Toorak Tractor set, and those of us that want to go bush and get dirty are the minority. If our market was larger we would have the situation in the USA where many of the 4WD come in 2WD format as well.
At least Nissan is still making what you want Truckster
Raywanderin' in retirement. victor 2010
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:14

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:14
Ray,

Yup we are a minority those that actually get them dirty or test our limits on hard tracks.

Quite sad really. Why people have to have the "IMAGE" of being a 4wder is beyond me.

You been enjoying that camper a bit lately ?
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Reply By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:22

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:22
It's an aspirational market. They buy the car, hoping that one day they will be able to go bush (park on the nature strip). So while a 2 wd would fulfill most of their real needs, the lack of 4WD badge, and not being able to identify with hoons on the 4WD ads would seriously erode market appeal. Its a bit like the poseurs who dress up in drizabones to go to the rugby- they think thay are identifying with the rugged Aussie bush heritage, even though they live in a townhouse and caught the bus to the ground. The only real requirement is for a big slit next to the pocket so they can get their hand in to where it will spend most of its time;-)
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Follow Up By: joc45 - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:28

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:28
... Its a bit like the poseurs who dress up in drizabones...
Yeh, a bit like Prime Ministers wearing akubras when out in the country Who's fooling who?
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:23

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:23
Bob:>> You could sell them 4wd badges then to make people think its a 4wd. I mean to have it look like current 100 series/patrols etc.. then people would think they are jumping monster trucks, driving upto the top of the HF ariel in salt water down the beach at 150kph with the big splash.. I dunno, just looking at all these "concept" cars in mags makes me think that the days of real 4wds are long in the past, its only going to get softer uglier and sader.


Joc:>> Name 1 polly that doesnt don the Akubra in the bush?

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Follow Up By: Old Soldier - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:37

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:37
Bob, you're a bloody character mate :) :)

Love the comment about going bush [parking on the nature strip].

When these sort of people eventually pluck up the courage to venture further afield than the "nature strip, they go to extraordinary lengths to get their pride and joy dirty, rush home to pose on the nature strip and photograph it, then polish it all better again.

Really, where is all this going to end?

I see one of the latest fashion colour for these gleaming chrome yuppie-mobiles is two tone metallic lilac over silver.

Whats next metallic Pink????

I agree with Truckster - time to get back to the bloody basics.

Nothing wrong with a few creature comforts like air and steer, but more of the real gear is needed. Standard diff lockers, hand throttles etc. Less of the plastic crap and fancy, glossy, styilised rear wheel covers and the like.

Enjoy the bush

DennisN

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Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:55

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:55
Hmmmmmm. So let me get this right
We dislike:

people who identify with hoons on the 4WD ads

poseurs who dress up in drizabones to go to the rugby

people live in a townhouse and caught the bus to the ground

politicians who wear akubras when out in the country (apparently they should just get bloody sunburnt)

people go to extraordinary lengths to get their pride and joy dirty

4WD owners who pose on the nature strip and photograph it

owners of gleaming chrome yuppie-mobiles such as two tone metallic lilac over silver

and lastly any fancy, glossy, styilised rear wheel covers and the like.

I think I've got them all committed to memory. I just hope I never get my pride and joy dirty and then take a photograph of it to put in on a web site (such as this) or I'll have to dislike myself.

Oh dear, I'm finding it so hard to conform - please help me!
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Follow Up By: Old Soldier - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:59

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:59
Good one wombat

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

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Reply By: david - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:26

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:26
might make it hard too find good second hand 4wd later,what i recon would sell well is full size twin cabs[100sor patrol]
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:25

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:25
Full size twin cabs - what a great idea! Maybe Nissan could call theirs Navara, Holden could build a Rodeo, Mitsubishi Triton and Toyota, hmmm, maybe we should suggest Hilux.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:42

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:42
They have them in the USA already

The Tundra.
Tundra
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Follow Up By: Chris - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:16

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:16
Land Rover Defender 130.
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Follow Up By: Member - diamond - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:23

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:23
if it does make it hard to find a second hand fourby at least we will know it hasnt been bushlooking foward to easter at jamieson
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:37

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:37
Those Def Enders look like they would have great departure angles.. Anyone got the #/s on it?
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Follow Up By: sloth - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:07

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:07
Salsa Red Pearl? what happened to Red?
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Reply By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:37

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:37
Truckster, your argument is fatally flawed from its opening statement "Most people are getting tired of 4wds turning into Plastic Rolls Royces . . .". If 'most' people were unhappy with the style of modern 4WD vehicles there would be a very small market for them, as opposed to your quoted figure of 90+%. Surely it is the prerogative of consumers to purchase the vehicle that THEY believe is most suited to their needs whether they live in Toorak or Broadmeadows, or are mums, dads or singles. Believe it or not nobody dictates which vehicle you - Truckster drive, as long as you do it within the laws of the land.

Why do the "mum's taxi", "Toorak taxi" set intimidate you to the such an extent that you feel the need to incite acrimony from your peers in a forum such as this? An inferiority complex? I hope not. Imagine if the mum's of Australia (who outnumber the 'real' 4WDers substantially) got together a lobby group to ban ALL off road travel because they felt that all cars should be 'cute and cuddly'. Imagine your outrage.

I don't know if my choice of 4WD fits into your genre of 'real' or 'plastic crap'. To be honest I don't care! It suits our needs, and by the way it does come as a 2WD which is the chosen vehicle of many, many tradespeople and is about $20,000 cheaper, as you suggested.

This missive is not intended to be offensive or derogatory. I tend to bet a little worked up when I see an attempt to trivialise or denegrate those who do not conform to a specific set of personal guidelines.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:55

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:55
If 'most' people were unhappy with the style of modern 4WD vehicles there would be a very small market for them, as opposed to your quoted figure of 90+%

Bzzzzzzzz... people have no option but to buy their "higher than normal" car in 4wd mode for most. Remember most of these tossers still work on the theory that sittin up higher is "SAFER"??

Patrol/Pajero/100/troopy/Jackaroo/Prado/Randerover/Disco/110 series etc etc etc.. the list goes on, none of these come in 2wd. So what option do they have to buying these??

Surely it is the prerogative of consumers to purchase the vehicle that THEY believe is most suited to their needs whether they live in Toorak or Broadmeadows, or are mums, dads or singles.
Agree. but if there was an option of 2wd, I am saying I think they would sell as they would be 1) cheaper 2) could leave 4wds as 4wds. Who needs 34 cup holders, and 12 mirrors on the sunvisors?

Why do the "mum's taxi", "Toorak taxi" set intimidate you to the such an extent that you feel the need to incite acrimony from your peers in a forum such as this? An inferiority complex?

Intimidate me? LOL! You dont know me!
I laugh at them as I sit next to them at the lights and look down on them! Nope. I see the 4wds of the future and they look like boxes of dung. Bread boxes made of plastic chrome, tin bodys, IFS crap suspension which leaves no real world offroad use... Look at all the "concept cars" in magazines, that light blue Toyota of the future.. did yousee that heap? the Humma look a like Square Jeep thing.. PLEASE SOMEONE TURN BACK TIME 20 YRS!

What ever happened to a car you can lean on and not do $3,000 of damage as the panels buckle they are that thin? 1 coat of orange peel paint is called a good finish these days...

Imagine if the mum's of Australia (who outnumber the 'real' 4WDers substantially) got together a lobby group to ban ALL off road travel because they felt that all cars should be 'cute and cuddly'. Imagine your outrage.

You would be happy with this? Arent people trying to stop 4wds now? ban this outlaw deadly 4wds, close parks close this stop that? Heard of Harold Scruby have you?

I don't know if my choice of 4WD fits into your genre of 'real' or 'plastic crap'. To be honest I don't care! It suits our needs, and by the way it does come as a 2WD which is the chosen vehicle of many, many tradespeople and is about $20,000 cheaper, as you suggested.
You answered this yourself by saying your car comes in a 2wd version it doesnt apply to you does it.


This missive is not intended to be offensive or derogatory. I tend to bet a little worked up when I see an attempt to trivialise or denegrate those who do not conform to a specific set of personal guidelines.
Do what you feel you want to...
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:18

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:18
Congratulations - you have me confused!

"Patrol/Pajero/100/troopy/Jackaroo/Prado/Randerover/Disco/110 series etc etc etc.. the list goes on, none of these come in 2wd. So what option do they have to buying these??

". . . if there was an option of 2wd, I am saying I think they would sell as they would be 1) cheaper 2) could leave 4wds as 4wds. Who needs 34 cup holders, and 12 mirrors on the sunvisors?"

Don't consumers have the option of numerous 2WD vehicles?

. . . or they have the choice of "softroaders" if they prefer the inherent safety that 4WD offers.

. . . or they can buy a 'real' 4WD, even if they never intend to take it off road.

Which are the ones that we should take out and shoot?
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31
yes they have the option of 2wd vehicles.. But thats not the thing.

Its the higher/bigger is safer thing thats in their head...

Name 1 family car or 2wd that sits as high as a 100 series/Patrol/ etc.. Thats what they want. Not a 4wd but the bigger safer higher car...

They see 4wds as BIGGER and safer.

Nothing to do with offroad..

Yes they can buy a 4wd and never take it off road, but in doin this they are taking a large market share, which in turn makes manufacturers make 4wds gayer/softer/less useful/more plastic and gimicks that arent what 4wds are about.

Look at the current crop of 4wds. Compare them to 4wds of 10-20 yrs ago.. Not only 4wds but all cars were more solid back then.

who wants to drive around the outback in this






or THIS is the one thats killing me....

PLEASE DONT LET THIS HAPPEN
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:55

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:55
Truckster,

I have two vintage cars which are bigger, heavier, solider, higher, and stronger than a 100 series/Patrol/ etc. There's not a skerrick of plastic on either and the newest is 65 years old.

BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO DRIVE THEM AS AN EVERY DAY CAR!

Do you know what a Luddite is?
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 13:05

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 13:05
Wombat,
Your point on old cars has what do to with the 4wd/2wd question? or is that just to confuse people?

Luddite: yes I know what it is... for thse that dont:

The term Luddite has been resurrected from a previous era to describe one who distrusts or fears the inevitable changes brought about by new technology

But what does it have to do with me? I dont fear it at all. I dont want it to happen. There is a difference.

Do you know when it first started? The original Luddite revolt occurred in 1811, an action against the English Textile factories that displaced craftsmen in favor of machines.

What else would you like to know..
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Follow Up By: Member - diamond - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:30

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:30
toorak tractors yes we have a cpl 2doors from work toyota four runner i see them every cpl of days out the front cleaning/polishing/tyre black all the time i remember asking him one day about his 4wd adventures must have been a bad day as all i got was some crap about not all people who byea 4wd is to go out and wreck the bush its for the safety of the kids as the mrs uses it to pick up and take the kids to school so after being abused for a simple friendly question i told him why not go out and bye a volvolooking foward to easter at jamieson
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:46

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:46
Diamond That got me laughin real well!!!!!!
LOL

Wsa up Jamieson on weekend, its bleep ING DUSTY...... like 1 min between cars at least...... :(
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Follow Up By: bruce.h - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:47

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:47
i dont know guys the more i look at the green jeep the more i want to take it uot for a play what outstanding approch & departure angles
, dont know about the road tack majors tho (sh*t thats showing my age)
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:39

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:39
Bruce, you need to see a Dr.. first thing you hit in that the car would buckle or shatter!
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Follow Up By: bruce.h - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:02

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:02
i agree i do need to see a dr have done since i got 1st 4wd take good lookat it truckster hiting things with those type of clearances in the hands of a good driver should be easy to aviod as to soft roaders i drove the audi 4wd not so long back & ifound it to be in my opinion to very good all it needed was a set of high profile tyres as the dealer had it set up to look sporty i took it where all the big 4wd went with no trouble at all excelent vehicle for comfort leater interior so easy to keep cleen i agree plastic was bit of a worrie but its horses for courses for what it was it worked very well the big down side in my view was not all the plastic & flashy extras it was the $89000 price tag
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Reply By: Member - Chris - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:42

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:42
Most road accidents when it comes to 4x4s are plastic drivers anyway;
ie. mum can't drive it in the carpark, some loser on the grogg driving back from a city niteclub, the fact the non-offroader needs to drive a 'bully' vehicle in peak hour traffic, in my town there's always somebody with all the fruit driving around social nitelife places like Northbridge or Fremantle - they just drive around and around all night long - to those people, get a life.
These people are the ones giving the real 4x4ers bad names hence all these do-gooders saying they should be banned or restricted to country residents - I think there's a few different ideas put forward.
One bloke that want's all of them to go is that d*ckhead of the Australian Pedestrian Council. About a year ago on TT or ACA he was going on about bullbars and was almost screaming blue murder because one car they came across in the street had a winch on it.
-Give me a break, if you're going to ban 4x4s you'd better ban trucks, V8 Commodores, because at high speed they will chew up a pedestrian just as well as the front diff of a 4x4.
Love the bush.
Chris
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:48

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:48
Oh yes, and to those people - even though they would'nt be reading this because they don't know what Exploroz means - that buy that throw on mud product, you should'nt have been born. Sure you unavoidably get mud off road sometimes but to do that so you can lie to your mates at the office and say you've had a good weekend in the bush........
llllllloooooosssssssseeeeeeerrrrrrrrr.:)Love the bush.
Chris
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:58

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 11:58
LMAO! yes I couldnt believe that you can BUY a throw on your car mud thing. Why? Surely anyone can find a puddle somewhere!

Do you know whats worse. There was a place you can go on the Nth Shore of Sydey somewhere that will DIRTY YOUR CAR for you! Drop off and pick up.!!!!

I bet they did/do a roaring trade .. then Tuesday comes (Monday is used for showing off the dirty car) they do car cleaning!
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:36

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:36
The product is a small plastic jar that retails for about $10. It's a patented product so I haven't seen it in auto shops. From memory, on today tonite a few years back husband/wife from S.A. (both coppers) invented it for these idiots and making a killing at the same time. I pretty sure it's called 'Throw-on Mud'.
You still wouldn't believe it - there's instructions on the back so if you add a certain amount to a bucket of water it will give you different consistency eg muddy water or thick mud.
If people want mud on their 4x4 give it to me for a weekend and I'll do it for free!! lol.Love the bush.
Chris
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Reply By: David - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 13:30

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 13:30
Interesting discussion...
The good thing about the type of people Truckster talks of is that it makes more good 4WDs available second-hand.
The bad things include marketing pressure changing the way these cars are built, AND the way a lot of these people drive- just go near a school in the am or pm and watch some of these mums (and dads) drop off and pick up their children- very scary stuff!! They are probably not worse drivers than the parents in tiny cars, but they have far more potential to do damage to others (and the enviroment.) No wonder so many children are run over by (reversing) 4WDs!
We do however live in a free country- there will hopefully always be a choice, and hopefully legislation will not have too much say in what we drive- although some in power are trying to take that choice from us. That is what we need to fight against... For example those trying to ban 'roo bars. Can you begin to imagine if they ever got that one in to law- it could happen!
Cheers
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Follow Up By: bruce.h - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 17:45

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 17:45
while igree with your comments re many drivers i believe you have fallen for the brain washed view that the driver is always at fault its the education of the kids that has stoped that is causing these problems i was always taught both by my perants & at school do not stand at the back of a vehicle always stand where the driver has good vision of you ,this what i teach my kids even my 19 month old daughter knows not to stand behind the car & to always standinfront of the drivers side window when the drive way or at the front of the car else where,educate the kids & the problem grows away in time
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Reply By: Alan H - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:17

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:17
You certainly stirred things up Truckster, and trying to revert to the old way won't get you anywhere with the manufacturers or the legistlators.
It's much easier for vehicles to be made with crap plastic and throw away parts, and according to the pedestrian council we're all maniacs looking for someone to crush with our bull bars.
I can't see how it's any different being hit by a vehicle with one, as one without, you're still going to end up hurt.
As long as the bar is not the type which leans forward away from the front and throws the pedestrian on to the road to be run over, what's the problem?
As for mothers running their little darlings over, have any of those involved in pedestrian/road safety ever watched the speed at which some of these loony mothers reverse!
And why the hell don't they check where the kids are before racing out into the road.
They're always late, car full of kids, especially the people mover designer delivery vans they love so much, dashing around the streets running other kids over to get their own to school on time!
And watch those legistlators, they don't do all that travel overseas for the benefit of you and I, it's for holidays and to check out what other rules they can come up with, especially some of the garbage from the EU, to make life just a bit less free.
Of course, it's all for the common good!
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Reply By: sloth - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:28

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:28
Wow. I think you all have too much time on your hands to argue. Go back to work and maybe you could all afford to go off-road more. haha.

:)

I drive a 100 series Turbo because it the best F___ing thing on a corrugated gravel road i have ever driven - in standard mode!! Let alone with some relatively inexpensive suspension changes..... And hey, when you travel 180km of this road per day, would you rather 100 series with sterile environment and Bruce Springsteen C.D's, or 20-30 year old Toyota or Nissan with rattles and sore back?

I say each to theie own.

I still think it is a great forum, however threads like this remind me of American Anger Forums...,.

Toe.
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Follow Up By: Nordave - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 15:26

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 15:26
Truckster
I too drive a turbo 100 series TD and I like the 10 cup holders and the plastic bits. The ride and handleing of this truck make it a real pleasure to drive. It suits me. I have had old 4xds all my life along with a good car for long distance travelling and its great to be able to combine the two into one and save a fortune on rego and insurance etc. Yes Ive owned everthing from landrovers to troopcarriers including nissens and eighty series so I think you can say I have no real bias.
If you want an old clunkker for the bush then go and buy an ancent troopy or something like that. There are plenty of after market bits to add and make it do what you want.
I agree with sloth each to his own.
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Follow Up By: Nordave - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 15:47

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 15:47
By the way Im not giving the troopy a bad rub it was a bloody good truck. and proberly the best one for the sort of things that are near and dear to Trucksters ever beating. Just saying for what I what now the plastic fantastic is just the ducks nuts.
Dave
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Reply By: bruce.h - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:43

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:43
interesting discusion
the problem of producing a 2wd version is not as simple as just leaving off the diff & transfer case design changes would be required to compensate for the loss of the parts ect thus adding costs, the other problem would be that the 2wd version may well sell well & the 4wd version would sell to a smaller market & there for may not be economicly viable thus leading to the demise of the very machine you want, as to other isues ie bull bars & pedestrians we have alot to worry about becauce while we argue with each other the enamy gets closer to the gate,we must if we are to survive unit not only those who drive 4wd offroad but embrase the yuppy poser & any other form of 4wd owner & along with those we must unit all parts of the industry from accessories &motor vehicle sellers through to 4wd workshops &any person who supplies 4wd owners,& also bring it to this group the land managers with whom our continued survival rests united we stand devided we sell out
jm2cw
Bruce
AnswerID: 16605

Reply By: bruce.h - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:47

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 14:47
interesting discusion
the problem of producing a 2wd version is not as simple as just leaving off the diff & transfer case design changes would be required to compensate for the loss of the parts ect thus adding costs, the other problem would be that the 2wd version may well sell well & the 4wd version would sell to a smaller market & there for may not be economicly viable thus leading to the demise of the very machine you want, as to other isues ie bull bars & pedestrians we have alot to worry about becauce while we argue with each other the enamy gets closer to the gate,we must if we are to survive unit not only those who drive 4wd offroad but embrase the yuppy poser & any other form of 4wd owner & along with those we must unit all parts of the industry from accessories &motor vehicle sellers through to 4wd workshops &any person who supplies 4wd owners,& also bring it to this group the land managers with whom our continued survival rests united we stand devided we sell out
jm2cw
Bruce
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Follow Up By: Alan H - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 16:08

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 16:08
I think it's too late now Bruce, the massive legions of legistlators, road safety experts, pedestrian councils, conservationists etc. have got the public convinced we're the bad boys for driving something different to the little plastic box.
According to them we use too much fuel, which won't leave enough for the pollies to go jumbo jetting around the world checking out more restrictive rules and regs.
We kill too many drivers in small plastic boxes whether it was their fault or not.
We kill too many pedestrians most of whom appear to be drunk or otherwise under the influence of something they've been sniffing or boozing.
They're the same vocal minorities who want all of those who go shooting for pleasure to give up their guns, but can't of course stop guns being obtained by criminals.
We're the generally law abiding members of the public who obey most of their lunatic regulations, which is why they keep making it harder for us to do what we enjoy doing.
They know we'll obey.
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Follow Up By: bruce.h - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 17:34

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 17:34
its only to late when we lay down and surrender ihave apicture but i cant work out how to insert it it shows a frog in the mouth of a crain with its hands around the birds neck & the words never give up printed on it i think it say it all
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Reply By: Trevor - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 16:20

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 16:20
You probably all know that the Holden Jackaroo is sold in the US as the Isuzu Trooper. Over there it comes in 2WD or 4WD.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a 2WD version, but as a people mover it may not be too bad. At least they havethe choice.
Trev
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Reply By: jaycee - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:08

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:08
Just hang on to those pre 1990 model trucks, keep them in good nick and in 10 years they'll be worth mega bucks, cause all that will be around to drive (maybe not drive) will be a truck that you dont even need to drive. It will be 99% plastic composite, all the thinking will be done via roadside computer. Fly by wire accelerator pedals will be overiden by roadside speed controllers to ensure that all cars travel at exactly the same speed as will fly by wire steering, that will be controlled by microchips embedded in the road surface. Shifting gears will be a thing of the past as there will be variable speed drive belts (you will have forward, reverse and park) Mechanics wont need to have mechanical expertise as all they need to do is plug the thing in and repairs will be done by the analyser.
THEN GUESS WHAT.
Some manufacturer in 2020 will have a great idea! Lets make a four wheel drive truck without all the gizmos, you know like it was back in the 1980's. Trouble is there wont be anybody around who can build one.
AnswerID: 16613

Reply By: peck - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:17

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:17
I think most of you are missing the point! Because most 4wds are sold for kidmobiles for travel to and from school, when they are taken serious terrian driving they break. The manufacturers design the things with end use statistics in mind. The odd one that breaks is just a minor blip and not worth worrying about but to you and I that rely on the things being reliable it is a major problem. There is nothing worse than being 100s of ks from anywhere and the thing wont go! I know most manufacturers offer a "come and get it free" warranty but will they in the middle of the Great Sandy Desert? Has anyone had this experience? Did they come?
AnswerID: 16614

Reply By: GaryInOz - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:18

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:18
The real problem is the "Mum's taxi/Toorak tractor/ Chappel street cruiser" that don't have a damned clue about the height/width/length of their vehicles, nor the dynamics of driving a vehicle with a high center of gravity. The easiest fix would be to have a seperate licence endorsement for 4WD vehicles over 1.5 tonne (similar to HR licence etc) with a set series of practical tests (4WD and on road) and written/oral/practical tests on basic 4WD recovery procedures,safe speeds etc. This would make it unpalatable for most "Mums" and the hoon element to go through just to drive a "show pony", while still allowing them to own most softroaders. I believe the majority of recreational 4WDers would have no qualms about sitting for an endorsement of their licence that instills a basic knowledge of their vehicles' abilities and weak points, as well as basic 4WD safety and recovery procedures. I would envisage the relevant state 4WD Associations could assist the licencing bodies of the states in running the relevant tests.

Either that, or we could remove all the airbags in the "Toorak tractors/Hoonmobiles/"Mums taxis" and replace them with 12" metal spikes. Maybe then they would pay a bit more attention to their driving and the road.....

Then the manufacturers could refocus their attention on real 4WDs and real 4WDers (country folk, tradesmen, and recreational 4WDers)

See some of the earlier posts along the lines of "Now I've bought my new 100 series cruiser I suppose I'd better get some real suspension/shockers/rims/tyres fitted". On a brand new 4WD vehicle??? Shouldn't they be providing at least serviceable products, ie. fit for purpose (a legal requirement). What is the point of selling a vehicle that can't take 4-5 people (or their rated capacity) and a full tank of fuel, without being over the GVM.
AnswerID: 16615

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:49

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:49
Gary you and me live on another planet.. I agree 100%.

Only spending $70,000 (more than a year and halfs wage for most) on a car you expect GOOD tires and suspension? LRT?

come on get with the program!!!
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FollowupID: 10295

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 15:27

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 15:27
Further to other posts, The LC100 5-studs HAVE BEEN BREAKING STUDS (apparently acknowledged by Toyota) according to 4x4 Australia magazine (Prado review). That is why the new Prado RETAINS THE 6-stud pattern.

Toyota tough? yeah right......
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FollowupID: 10324

Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:42

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:42
100s have been known to blow front diffs too. the early ones were like paper mache....
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FollowupID: 10336

Reply By: ThePublican - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:22

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 18:22
The word is PROGRESS ,whether we like it or not it is the shape of things to come, Truckster it only shows yours and my age to "lust" after the way things were ,,,do you realy think that manufacturers will go TRUE retro?? not if they want to stay viable,,
How many people would actualy buy a TOTALY STANDARD vehicle if it was made today ,,,very very few,.
AnswerID: 16617

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:03

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:03
You can run from progress, but you can't hide. The first time you pop your head up it'll be there to bite you on the bum.
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FollowupID: 10257

Reply By: PeteG - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:53

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:53
This may give away my age (young fella under 50 - just). Once there was just Landies - the FJ was the average mans's vehicle. Then Les Thiess started importing Tojos during construction of the Snowies.

Now we have a revolution on our hands - a 4By without a low box - well a bit of a compromise aint it .

It is a worry that the trend is to lighter and lighter. True, I remember when the two banger Zook first arrived - then all the cockies started to buy them - a good little go most places bus - just a bit short on speed, room and creature comforts.

A point made in an earlier post is that it is good to be able to drive for a whole day in our fair land and not be cooked, battered and covered in dust. Thus the modern 4WD has evolved (Patrol & Cruiser) into a far more comfortable vehicle. Progress does not stand still, however, I must say that I chuckle at carpets in a 4WD (still then the accesso shop can sell you some fancy mats for $$$ and all those HD bolt on bits to replace the plastic crap)

I mean in reality we are left with the Defender, Patrol and Cruiser utes, the Troopy and Patrol and Cruiser wagons for those who like some room. The twin cabs fill a gap but you wont find me sitting in the back seat for a day!!!. Serious - maybe the Landie will re-invent itself (no pun intended) as the wagon of choice for serious offroaders (but with a/c, p/s etc). Meanwhile all the other manufacturers chase the big sales and end up with a all fancy wagon that looks good but won't hack the pace in the bush.

Mr Scruby and his mates - well yeah , I say the small dog makes all the noise. An earlier post of Trucksters showed a very good reason for having a bar. If you looked carefully at that photo another 10mm and the roo would have gone over the bonnet.When I was a little kid I remember hearing of an accident involving a FB Holden where a roo went through the screen and took out 2 people. Scruby and his mates have introduced an Australian Standard with backward sloping bars - perhaps the Yanks will come looking for our WMD's - imagine a Falcon or one of those other low nosed cars hitting a roo at speed - into the screen. If any one gets a roo through the screen - sue Scrubes. (Any way if you hit a pedestrian with one, you would be able to blame the fellow behind who runs him/her over.)

Truckster - you stirred the pot on this one.

Seriously, there are a range of vehicles out there and the RAV's are bloody brilliant at speed bumps and corrugated gravel and I guess each to their own. (I'm into Patrols personally)

Anyway after my ramblings I say why dont we invent an Ozz-Mobile - after all we now export something like $5bn worth of vehicles per year to the rest of the world (and import Daewoos with Aussie made motors in them).
Now all you hard core 4WD's can have your cake and eat it too!! LMAO - if we could agree on the specifications!!. Built local and jobs for the locals too

Given the performance of super funds lately maybe I have hit on a good investment!!!



Pete G

AnswerID: 16631

Follow Up By: PeteG - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:58

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 19:58
Sorry folks - typo - the bit about the roo in Trucksters photo should read 100mm (not 10mm)

Pete G
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FollowupID: 10264

Follow Up By: Member - Willem- Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 20:26

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 20:26
I have read all of this thread and now I wonder why. Harks too much like the minutes of a CWA meeting.Cheers, Willem
Never a dull moment
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:38

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:38
Whats a CWA meeting?

and wheres the 10mm in the post!??
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:45

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:45
More to the point how many Christian Women's Association meetings has Willem been too!
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Follow Up By: Old Soldier - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:35

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:35
Dunno about you blokes, but where I live, a CWA meeting is a COUNTRY WOMENS ASSOCIATION meeting.

Thos magnificent "pumpkin scone" ladies who are the salt of the earth.

Christian Womans Assoc - jeez where have you blokes been hiding??? :) :) :)

Get out of you soft cities and into the REAL Australia. :) :) :) :)

enjoy the bush

DennisN
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FollowupID: 10345

Follow Up By: Old Soldier - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:45

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:45
Please,

All you cane toads and "mexicans" - dont ask wot a pumpkin scone is or I will have to sic Sir Joh and Lady Flo onta ya. :) :) :)

"Don't you worry about that"

:) :) :) :) :) :)

Great thread Truckster - lots of fun

DennisN
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FollowupID: 10346

Follow Up By: Member - Willem- Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:55

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 19:55
I wonder about the CWA meetings myself !!! :-)

Truckster, what is this 10mm you're talking about.

If anyone out there wants a real 4wd you can make an offer for the one below. Only 445,000 on the clock. Mostly driven to CWA meetings.Cheers, Willem
Never a dull moment
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FollowupID: 10348

Reply By: Member - Peter- Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:10

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:10
Truckster if you wait long enough all that was old will be new again a good ie: PT cruiser...the new mini ...flaired jeans ...hippy style clothing ,if you can stay alive long enough you will see the return of what your heart desires it will just cost 10 times as much as you hopedBorn to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard
Peter York 4x4
AnswerID: 16638

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:32

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:32
LMAO your probably correct there!

The PT Cruiser should be renamed the Chrysler Mid Life Crisis.... ;)~
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FollowupID: 10291

Reply By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:18

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:18
Excellent thread everyone - well done all contributors. Picking up on one of the suggestions I too would love to see a real Aussie 4WD. Something along the lines of the Oka but with a few refinements. A modern German turbo diesel would be important to me, but maybe an Aussie petrol six and V8 as variants. It would be a large vehicle (as big as L/C or Rangie) but more Oka like with cabin and ute variants. Every time I see a Hummer in the war I go for the pocket in the Drizabone. Australia needs its own Hummer but more economical and affordable. It really is pathetic that we rely on Japan and Europe for our bush transport.
AnswerID: 16640

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:31

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:31
Ive driven an Oka! They are like driving a boat, sway from side to side.

Our Rural Fire brigade was the only one in NSW with an Oka!
It was fun out the sand hills, went everywhere EASILY!!

interesting to see one in the bush!
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FollowupID: 10290

Reply By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:23

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:23
Most people missed the point.

Im not shatting on people who USE their 4wd for offroading regularly!

bleep Im in the stats on GOING OFF ROAD REGULARLY.....

Im saying for the Toorak group/George St Farmers that never get past the Coles gravel carpark, and wouldnt know how to put it in 4wd....

Wouldnt they be better off with a car that doesnt have 4wd, but has the image they are after, and the height they **THINK** is safer, and comes cheaper than a 4wd....

Theres ya future to be scared of..... ??


AnswerID: 16642

Follow Up By: PeteG - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:54

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:54
I think your point about a 2WD version of a 4WD has some merit - especially if it were a good heavy duty vehicle. This would be OK for those who have a big boat but dont require 4WD.

That way we could have a fair dinkum 4BY and they could pay for all of the extra bolt on go fast look pretty $$ accessories instead of the other way around as it is heading now.

If we cant get one off the shelf from O/Seas then let Aussie ingenuity rule.
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FollowupID: 10296

Follow Up By: Truckster - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 22:03

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 22:03
At last someone understands!!!!!!
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FollowupID: 10299

Reply By: Member - diamond - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:45

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2003 at 21:45
one of the funny storys ill never forget we had a party at lake eppalock and we had a friend of the bday boys friend come up from melb.he had just bought a gq patrol a few weeks earlier and was interested in doing a little bush driving so i said ok follow me .we came across a pretty big bog hole soi stuck it in 4 high and away i went.well at the other side i was waiting for hi9m to follow but he didnt,so i got out and asked whats the problem and he asked what did you do to the front wheels before you crossed.so i explained about locking the hubs in and putting it in 4wd.away he went and down she goes rear wheels spining and stop.i get out and ask him if he put it in 4 high and he asked whats that so i told him about the other lever and what it does he didnt even know he had another lever.any way he did that and got out real quick.well back at camp that night i noticed he was spending a lot of time looking at the car and i had to know what he was looking at.he says look its muddy .im going to work on monday and im not even going to wash it.hes been invited away a few times but he wont come because hes scared of hurting the car and its a pain to wash.thats my tale and i think its very funnylooking foward to easter at jamieson
AnswerID: 16645

Reply By: Kev. - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:05

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:05
I want to know more about this "throw on mud" product !

I have never heard of this , do people realy do that ???



I also agree that they are LOOOOSSSSERSSSS !!!
AnswerID: 16688

Reply By: Kev. - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:11

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:11
Oh yeah, no real point to this post other than helping Truckster gain the most responded to thread ! LOL.

Previous : 28 resp and 44 follow ups to David Exploreoz


5 more to go !!!
AnswerID: 16690

Follow Up By: Kev. - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:12

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 14:12
Need a few more follow ups too !!!

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FollowupID: 10320

Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:04

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:04
NEWS FLASH!

Truckster is a big chance to break the record and go down in ExplorOz history!

Which question currently holds the record?
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FollowupID: 10328

Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:36

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:36
Dave has the record....

Oooooooo to be famous.....
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FollowupID: 10330

Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:39

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:39
Do we know the archive number for the record holding message so that we can verify this?
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FollowupID: 10335

Follow Up By: Truckster - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:51

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 17:51
Nope david said:

ExplorOz Team - David replied to the question

How about sending the 1cent to me to pay for the data transfer. BTW: The biggest thread was one of mine at 28 Responses and 44 Followups.



Which I have now past... :D
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FollowupID: 10338

Reply By: Wombat - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:06

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:06
T R U C K S T E R - L E G E N D !
AnswerID: 16706

Reply By: Member - Peter (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:16

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 18:16
Truckster now you have to do better whats the next comment on ?POLITICS,RELIGION,SEX,??????????????????????Born to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard
Peter York 4x4
AnswerID: 16710

Follow Up By: ThePublican - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 09:54

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 09:54
Sex,,yes please.
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FollowupID: 10367

Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 12:40

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 12:40
Its only a 2 way arguement that one.. Male or Felame.. ;)
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FollowupID: 10386

Follow Up By: Member - Peter (WA) - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 14:18

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 14:18
Truckster its only a one way arguement in my house she who must be obayed starts it ,finishes it and tells me she has won it Born to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard
Peter York 4x4
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FollowupID: 10392

Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 20:14

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 20:14
Peter.

AGREE 10000%!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought I was the lone ranger on that one.... :-(
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FollowupID: 10411

Follow Up By: Member - Peter (WA) - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 20:42

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 20:42
I bet she told you to say that, LOL , why do we spend more time at the key board talking than we do sitting talking at the kitchen table ????????Born to drive a 4x4 , not a keyboard

Peter York 4x4

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FollowupID: 10413

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 20:23

Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 20:23
The keyboard is more interesting and doesnt have a headache??
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FollowupID: 10497

Follow Up By: ThePublican - Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 20:40

Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 20:40
Peter the ONLY reason to spend time on the keyboard instead of "on the one you love " is because just """"" plain wore out """"" for the next 1/2 hour or so ,,,, a good bottle of scotch would just about scrape in as another reason,,,Headache never,all medical opinion says that the best cure for a headache is a good bit of the ??????? increases the blood flow.
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FollowupID: 10499

Reply By: David (N.) - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 20:35

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 20:35
C'mon Truckster, can't you think of a question which will provoke some serious discussion...
BTW I finally sent my fan clutch to Berrima to get fixed- if the result isn't good I'll know who to blame!!!!! Next job is the turbo.
Have a good one and cheers!!
AnswerID: 16725

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 22:17

Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 22:17
How about I start a thread on my thoughts on Indigenous people? Or Homosexuality???

Bet ya cant guess where that would end..... 8-))~~~
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FollowupID: 10510

Reply By: bruce.h - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 20:48

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2003 at 20:48
just thought i would through a cat into the dog ring to see if we could realy extend this baby,so here goes : its just as well ozi explorer is no longer with us or this thread would heaps longer & more volitolie.
if this dosnt give you a wining boost truckster nothing will
AnswerID: 16728

Follow Up By: ThePublican - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 09:57

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 09:57
Ozi is here,just in disguise,,should be a prize for picking his replies..
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FollowupID: 10369

Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 12:26

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 12:26
oh yea he never went anywhere, he was ingenious and changed his name to fool the blind.

But he has changed his name a few times....
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FollowupID: 10381

Reply By: Member - Andrew (SouthOz) - Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 13:04

Thursday, Apr 03, 2003 at 13:04
Truckster

Biggest problem would be that most 4WDers buy their toys secondhand.
ex lease or ex mums taxi.

This idea could reduce the number available for those who really want to go 4WDing.
Could lead to a new industry converting 2WDs into 4WDs. 8-)))Andrew - 1999 GU ST 4.2Turbodiesel Wagon
Whyalla SouthOz
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/4wd_out_of_adelaide
AnswerID: 16776

Follow Up By: David N. - Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 13:59

Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 13:59
I agree- I can't afford (well -not justify) a new one so I'd hate to think of the second hand market "drying up".
I think decent old 4bys will appreciate!
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FollowupID: 10462

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 22:12

Friday, Apr 04, 2003 at 22:12
Yea I agree .. $70k for a prado?? Then take it out and scratch it?? Yea... this lifetime.

4x4s are getting softer and softer.. to a point where we will all be driving around in leather lounges with plastic chrome light surrounds, and IFS if we are that unlucky.. Oh yes 21inch rims, no tires avail, BIG brakes so we are SAFER.. its lookin good aint it..

Old 4bs are the way to go now!
GQ/80's are sort of teh last of a breed of solid 4b's. Gimme Coils anyday.
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FollowupID: 10508

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