55w Kyocera report

Submitted: Friday, Jan 26, 2007 at 22:42

ThreadID: 41659 Views:3474 Replies:9 FollowUps:6

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Ron173

G'D'evenin all, and happy Australia day,

been building frame, wiring and playing with my new panel.

Initially bought as a 50w panel, the spec says 54w max, and 3.11amp, kyocera no longer make a 50, only a 55, guess they upped it a bit n cashed in, anyway mine is performing above expectations.

I have a fluke which is very accurate, ($1100, for work) and its putting out 3.48amps in full sun. Very happy with that.

My initial posts on this subject were met with a few who said it wouldnt run my engel,(40ltr) I was willing to accept that and expand another panel later on......... that will NOT be happening, it runs engel perfectly, and as I expected puts in more than the fridge _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx out.

Heres some figures etc.

Ok its a fairly hot day, 36.5deg c, cloudy, but sunny, so what I mean is sun is out a lot but goes behind clouds and comes out again.

Battery was just on vehicle dual batt system before start, and on solar reg panel was reading 12.70v, the reg is a projecta 10amp.

I plugged in fridge NOT PRE COOLED as would usually be, so internal engel temp was +28deg c, as soon as panel plugged in, voltage started to rise, thats with fridge running flat chat.

Engel was set just below the figure 3, which is my usual run point. freezer)

Within 1 hour of constant running (load 1 average bag of ice only, added once negative temp showed) temp was at -6 degc. voltage still rising steadily and at 12.95v.

After stabilising out and starting to cycle, here are my findings.

In the max heat of afternoon sun, 2 - 3pm, run as a freezer, results were such:-

Off cycle time was 4min 30sec, with a peak charge voltage during this time of 13.95v.

Run time was 14min 30sec, and from the 13.95v the initial drop was rapid to 13.57v which then steadily but slowly reduced to an all time low (including cloud periods) of 13.11v

This practice continued throughout day, with fridge temps cycling between -8.9degc, and -10.5 deg c.

This was above my expectations and it could clearly be seen that when the fridge was running flat chat, the panel was still increasing the voltage, backing my theory that it is supplying more than the fridge _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx.

It is now sitting with panel disconnected, which was done at 630pm when sunlight was still ok, but just to work the theory.

I will not put the panel back on till 8am tomorrow morning, I will post the lowest voltage and the time to recharge to max, which it still does with fridge on load.

I know cloudy days affect it, but even considering this, cant possibly imagine me needing to expand, this is working a treat.

Maybe I got a better than average panel? who knows but its doing the business just fine.

Will do a follow up tomorrow, and will do another on a 4 day bush camp in future.

Rgds

Ron

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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 07:29

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 07:29

Be interesting to see how it goes running for four or more days, it would keep up during the day easily on those figures.

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Reply By: Member - John and Val W (ACT) - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:34

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:34

Hi Ron,

Interesting figures. I'd be very interested to know the actual current consumption of the fridge under these conditions, and the net charging current to the battery. Will this be enough to run the fridge through the night? The fridge is running for about 75% of the time in the heat of the day, and I'd expect it to be using most of the panel output when running. There isn't a lot left to charge the battery for the fridge to use overnight. Probably not an issue if you can start with a fully charged battery and don't want it to run for ever without other charging. Did you keep the panel facing directly at the sun throughout the trial?

Please post your further results. Good data is hard to find!

Regards

John

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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:56

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:56

Gday Ron

As others have said, real data is hard to find, & yours is well simulated. I have considered Panels before, but don't stay put for long enough to warrent the expense. I am surprised that people always seem to be looking to keep up with the fridge. I was considering just getting enough power to extend the couple of days I already get from my batteries. ie I already get 50 odd hours, guessing I use about 60 amps (I have got the 50 hrs from 1 85AH battery, so guessing I used about 60 amps) In those 48 hrs, if I got say 45 amps from a panel, I would get an extra 24 hours from it, + another 20 odd amps the next day, so would probably get another day at least out of it.

Maybe extending time between charging by car can be cheaply doubled, rather than expensively made infinite.

Cheers Andrew

AnswerID: 218005

Reply By: Ron173 - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 10:39

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 10:39

G'Day,

further to my post last night... took panel off at 630pm.

7am this morning, fridge at -10.5deg c, battery had 12.45v which is plenty, so made it thru night no trouble.

I put panel back on at 7am, and now at 10.30am voltage is just creeping past 13v, (13.07 to be exact) and the temp outside is up to 36.2 deg c so again the fridge is working hard and the panel is still managing to up the voltage.

Unless I got 4 days of cloud, I cant see why I cant do what I am doing now in the bush for 4 days.

So all up, very pleased with it.

I did move the panel once during the day as the sun moved overhead, turned it around, which is what I'd do for real too.

Only difference is on a trip I'd prob have more in the freezer, but that would only serve to help it as the fuller a freezer is the more efficiently it works.

Rgds

Ron

AnswerID: 218012

Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 11:42

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 11:42

Hi Ron,

Good post and I look forward to the 4 to 7 day test.

Chasing the sun the way you are in in perfect sunny days you are receiving 10 hours sunlight and if the panel could keep up with 3.48 amps for 10 hours then that would give you 34.8 amps and the fridge would need to use less than that in order for the battery to stay charged.

The Engel 40L would normally use 40amps per day 1.67 per hour best case scenario in 30+ deg.

You don't mention the size of your battery but you will loose 6 to 10 amps per day in best test conditions.

You have a good set up and it is working well but it may require a top up around day 5 by running the vehicle for a few hours. Most of us go for a drive every day so you should be fine.

Regards

Derek.

AnswerID: 218019

Follow Up By: joc45 - Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 14:55

Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 at 14:55

Yes, the real test will be on an overcast hot day, where the panel output may drop back to an amp or so. So then you go for a drive for a couple of hours, which you had intended to do anyway.
But don't sit around the campsite with your diesel running at 2000rpm. You might consider it's doing your battery setup great good, but nearby campers might have other ideas. Not just at night, but even during the day when other campers just want to sit around enjoying the peace and quiet.
What you've got should cope reasonably well for sunny conditions.
Gerry

FollowupID: 478467

Reply By: FZJ 80 - Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 at 19:35

Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 at 19:35

Ron,

Thanks for the report. I have just bought an 80w BP panel from Derek Bester. We have a 35 litre Waeco fridge and by your figures our panel should be well and truly sufficient. Our Batt is 85AH. Will do similar test soon and report as well.

Regards

Greg

AnswerID: 218226

Follow Up By: Ron173 - Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 at 21:08

Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 at 21:08

Greg,

Mine is doing fine, also on 85ah batt, although that is my next upgrade!

You should be sweet as, lots of my dual batt system came from derek, he sells good gear and gives good advice.

Others say I need more etc etc, but i seldom camp more than 3-4 nights max, so I reckon I'm good too.

Solar is the way to go in Oz!!

I got a family friend who has a house out back of woop woop, local energy co. wanted 17k a pole x bout 6! to get it to him for grid supply, + bills, naturally he said no!!

Hes done whole house in solar, big battery bank and all low wattage 12v lights etc, inverters for tv etc.

Whole system is a ripper!, cost him 35k, but thats it all up fitted and no elec bill!

Wouldve cost him that to get electric to house, then a bill every 3 months.

His system works a treat, never runs out on him, and he knows he has to replace batteries but thats part of long term plan and budgeted for so no drama when it comes, and heaps, thats heaps cheaper than on the grid, and even inc batt replacements, hes in front.

I've been to house, stayed there, and if you never knew you'd not know not on supply.

There is no downside, he has no issues or restrictions, and blackouts mean nothing to him!! (he even phones his neighbour across valley n torments him when power out... (phones work in power outs,) telling him can you see my verandha floods! LOL)

We have HUGE solar exposure here in oz, panel cost is nothing, well low anyway in big picture.

We are looking at a MAJOR system here where whole house is on it, and when our panels are makin more than we need the grid BUYS it from us in form of rebates etc.

Govt pays heaps towards it, gotta look at it!

Reckon govt should look at posibilty of massive solar plants in general, rather than other fuels, its basically money from the sun, and we get heaps of it.............. go for it.

Rgds

Ron

FollowupID: 478668

Reply By: FZJ 80 - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 00:47

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 00:47

Ron,

Thanks for the reply and my apologies for the late response, i have bee away since monday. Your right as to solar benifits. As time goes on solar will become cheaper. I'm a bit of a greenie myself (In most ways) and see the future for us as having part solar in the home,maybe just living area lighting or similar, 2 switches like a caravan so as a choice between 240 or 12. If quite a lot of people did this the reduction of stress on the elec grid would be significant.

Will do some tests next week with the solar and fridge as you have.

Regards

Greg

AnswerID: 219135

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 10:25

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 10:25

>> see the future for us as having part solar in the home

I would like to believe this, but what ever happened to those Solarhart hot water heater systems of the 70/80's?? I would have expected them to be everywhere, but they arent.

FollowupID: 479698

Follow Up By: FZJ 80 - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 13:49

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 13:49

Truckster,

One of those solarhart hot water systems in on our roof. Manufactured in 1985. In qld it is now compulsary for all new homes to have solar hot water or a rheem heat pump system (Or equivalent). Head north thru bris roughly at Burpengary and you will see a large housing estate, every house has a solar hot water panel on the roof. I believe it was a voluntary developer choice to do so. No shortage of sunshine in Qld,so why not use it. Solar hot water is very common in qld, maybe not in vic due to the weather. The qld govt offered rebates for a long time to grow the use of such energy saving technologies.

Greg

FollowupID: 479754

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 17:38

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 17:38

>> No shortage of sunshine in Qld,so why not use it.

No shortage in many states.. I just dont get why they arent popular, maybe they arent efficent.. I mean running costs of the sun are incredible

FollowupID: 479817

Follow Up By: Ron173 - Monday, Feb 19, 2007 at 14:40

Monday, Feb 19, 2007 at 14:40

truckster,

I got a solahart hot water system, had it for 5 years now and its superb.

300ltrs of water a day heated free, only needs electric back up if we get a third cloudy day in a row.

cant recall exact figs, but roughly, it was 4k, and I got 1.5k back in govt rebate.

Its got a 12yr guarantee, gotta love that.

Ron

FollowupID: 483518

Reply By: Im.away - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 02:11

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 02:11

G'day Ron,

Interesting reading mate. Just be aware that every discharge cycle of the battery reduces it's life by some amount. If you get a couple of overcast days, your battery might keep the fridge running, but it may be damaging itself in so doing.

Pure lead acid batteries with no dopants such as Antimony will begin to damage themselves once they discharge below 85% of their rated capacity. (Depth of Discharge). So called deep cycle batteries, be they AGM or other have better DoD but it's still around 60%.

So if you have a battery that is (as an example) 100A/H and (using your figures) you have a 75% duty cycle for your fridge, and let's say the fridge is drawing 3 Amps, then you will discharge 54 Amp Hours in a day. This puts you below the DoD point for most types of deep cycle battery.

If you have limited sun, your battery is going to die before the second day is finished. Don't forget, I was using a 100 A/H battery as an example. Yours is probably less than that. If you get overcast weather, look forward to running the vehicle to charge the battery, or thaw out your food, or keep the fridge running and severely reduce the service life of the battery.

Basically Ron, you are just hanging in there mate...

Cheers,

Russ.

AnswerID: 219142

Reply By: Jimbo - Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 18:55

Friday, Feb 02, 2007 at 18:55

Good report Ron.

I've had similar results with a Unisolar 64 watt panel driving an 80 L Waeco.

In ideal conditions ie low 20's and lots of sunshine the panel runs the fridge. At other times it needs a top up from the car, but so be it.

For the most part I reckon it's a better alternative to go for slightly less solar than is recommended and back up with the alternator as needed.

Some unscrupulous traders, like Ozi who got banned here ages ago, will try to sell you enough solar to cope with the absolute worst possible conditions. It just isn't necessary.

ATB,

Jim.

AnswerID: 219313