Sparks and Embers get it wrong..

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 21:18

ThreadID: 41829 Views:3218 Replies:9 FollowUps:7

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Truckster (Vic)

Imagine that...

Burn-off gone wrong destroyed ski lodge
January 31, 2007 - 8:34PM

Authorities have admitted a backburning operation gone wrong was the "most probable" cause of the fire that destroyed a Victorian ski lodge.

A firefighter shift change which left the Cresta Valley Ski Lodge, on Mount Buffalo, unattended for several hours is also blamed for allowing the first burning embers to take hold and burn the lodge to the ground.

The lodge was destroyed in mid December as bushfires raged across the state's north-east, and Victoria's Department of Sustainability and Environment (DSE) and the Country Fire Authority (CFA) said on Wednesday they regretted its loss.

"We are deeply disappointed that Cresta Lodge has been lost during the fire fight. We know it was a special place for many locals and visitors," DSE Chief Fire Officer Ewan Waller said in the statement.

"Backburning helps us protect assets but, as we've all seen this season, fire can be unpredictable and uncontrollable."

An investigation has found the backburn was lit on December 11 in a bid to protect the lodge from a bushfire raging on the Great Dividing Range.

Control lines were built around the lodge and other nearby structures before the backburn was lit, and it was patrolled until firefighters believed it was safely controlled the next day.

"Firefighters assessed that there was a greatly reduced risk to Cresta Valley Lodge on that day at that time and, with the fire raging in many other areas, resources were moved accordingly," Mr Waller said.

A firefighters' shift change then left the lodge unattended for two and a half hours, Mr Waller said, and in that time it is thought falling embers sparked the blaze.

"(The) probable cause (is) embers or burning material crossing the line or falling from the slope behind Cresta as a result of the asset protection burn," a preliminary report into the blaze has concluded.

The report is yet to be finalised but Mr Waller said it would become available to the public within weeks.

Parks Victoria, the land manager of the site, is currently in discussions with the lessees about the future of Cresta Valley Lodge site.

© 2007 AAP

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Reply By: Exploder - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 22:02

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 22:02

Yeah we get that all the time in WA, we refer to most bush fire hear as just another of CALM’s Controlled burn’s. LOL

AnswerID: 218896

Reply By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 22:56

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 22:56

G'day,
Yeah! you've done it again, get with it and give us a reason, comment, your thoughts just something that tells us you know exactly what you are posting, I'm sure you raise the ire with some of us.
I'm fed up with! oh! what's that you say.....'imagine that'

Have you written to the appropriate authorities raising your concerns? if you have let us know the outcome!

Instead of 'lifting' some press release see if you can write your own opinion for a change.

Thankyou, regards

andy

AnswerID: 218906

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 23:40

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 23:40

Yes I have posted their admittance of bleep ing up what else is needed to be said?

I spent 13 yrs in the RFS, I know the coverups, and bleep ups that happen... Dont even pretend that they dont.

Write to the authorities?? We did that many times in the past at a brigade level, never once got a reply, what chance would a human have of getting one? You dont .. Honestly you dont think they care?

My opinion: Would you like a tissue?

FollowupID: 479350

Follow Up By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:36

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:36

Ahh! Finally you've given us something of your own, about bloody time. 13 years you say and you didn't once expose them for their coverups, there are words that spring to mind one begining with 'a' ending with 'y', there's a 'p', a 't' a 'h' .
You say you know what goes on, wow, one would think there are forums that may be able to deal with this or is the truth that you may be just a little scared that you might expose someone.

andy

My opinion :- come on tuckster you've made enough noise on this site, try a bit harder

FollowupID: 479372

Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:53

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:53

Andy,

I don't always agree with Truckster, I often read the stuff he posts and think why did he post that or what a load of drivel but this time on his side.

After 26years as a professional fire fighter this is the first time that I have seen anything close to an acceptance of blame or admission of responsibility for something gone wrong from any emergency service. Now we need to see them held accountable! Will they pay for the rebuilding or even cover the cost of the insurance excess?

I have long questioned some of the practices of bush fire fighting authorities across Australia. Particularly the practice of lighting backburns on days when resources are already stretched fighting existing fires. I personally have raised this question with senior officers in a number of agencies, both in writing and face to face. I and am yet to get a satisfactory response. The usual answer is that it is accepted practice. Perhaps by noticing this admission by one such authority and publicising it Truckster can raise awareness amongst the general public. This in turn might lead to questioning the "accepted practice" and investigating alternatives, they do exist.

Duncs

FollowupID: 479390

Reply By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 23:10

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 at 23:10

Firstly I don't profess to know what happened but I think the dse cop more than thier unfair amount of criticism.

Secondly, I hope they do rebuild the lodge and hopefully also reopen the Mt Buffalo Challet which closed it's doors recently.

Leroy

AnswerID: 218909

Follow Up By: madcow - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 07:28

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 07:28

It's a shame they did not even keep the cafe open. Now there is basically nothing up there.

FollowupID: 479381

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:09

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:09

exactly.

Leroy

FollowupID: 479382

Reply By: Member -Signman - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:02

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:02

Hi Truckster,
A bit of NSWRFS scandal for you...
The Blue Mountains Council are wanting an inquiry as to allegations the local firies were a bit heavy handed doing property protection burns during the fires.
The council is not firing darts- they're shooting cannonballs at them. Of course it's the firies (ie 'the grunts' ) who are getting all the blame, are not very happy.
BTW- no property was lost during the fires.
NOW FOR THE POLITICS...apparently the councils politics are aligned one way- and Phil Koperberg is standing for the Labor seat for the Blue Mountains in next months elections.
Tell ya- the whole thing is stuffed up here !!!

AnswerID: 218950

Follow Up By: Vince NSW - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:18

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:18

As You know Singman, I live in the Blue Mountains. I am also a RFS member(22years). The recent fires, nov 2006, were a giant publicity stunt for our wonderful Uncle Phil who we all love.(Bull Chit).
We could have controlled the fires on the Friday night, but crews (7 that I know about) sat around for a 12 hour shift all night lighting camp fires to try & keep warm. Conditions were perfect to put a control line around the whole fire & we could all have p----ed off home. But no we spent the next 10 days working on the thing.
The only difference between the RFS & the Boy scouts is that the Boy scouts have adult leadership at the top. They have lost sight of the fact that we are volunteers & have jobs to go to. If I am out at a fire, I don't make any money unlike the paid staff of the RFS & NPWS.
Over 10 days I was out on 5 shifts, & did NOT do any fire fighting. I sat on my fat BUM & watched out of area units go past under lights & sirens so that Phil could get his Media people in front of the TV.
If Koperburg gets elected I will Leave the RFS & the mountains can burn. I have My own pumps & water supply so I am able to look after myself & neighbours.
My whinge Vince

FollowupID: 479481

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:36

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:36

Well you may have spent 13 years as a volunteer in the RFS, but sometimes when all hell is breaking loose and immediate decisions are to be made right there and then, not by someone in a glass castle 500k away, to save property and life, so be it, and even sometimes when the right decision is made and mother nature changes it's wind direction or other factors, the right decision can turn to chite in and instant.
As a volunteer fire fighter of nearly 30 years I have seen good decisions go bad, but I have seen many go good too, so lets start tunnelling our energy into catching the bastartds who light many of these fires, then you can have your head Bruce.
You picking on every mistake the fire fighters make is growing a little boring , when are you going to praise the good things they do also?

Cheers Pesty

AnswerID: 218955

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:08

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:08

So none of the other fire authorities have made the same error, let a backburn get out of control.

Nature is one of those things that can turn and bit you if your not careful no matter how good you are.

Remember, he who has not sinned cast the first stone!!!!

Baz.

AnswerID: 218958

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:36

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:36

Geez mate, this isn't their first stuffup. They have tried to wipe out the bird emblem of Victoria, the Helmeted Honeyeater, they wiped out the Wilsons Prom forest where they stopped lots of vehicles travelling, they failed to act last year with the Grampians blaze til it got out of control. Those are just in the last two years. When was the first stone?

Hope the controller of NSW Parks vehicles is going well mate and keeping you away from food poisening issues.

FollowupID: 479487

Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:15

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 16:15

Truckster

Like everyone else in this great Country you are entitled to express your opinion.

If people don't like it thats fine, for example I don't agree with everything you or anyone else says for that matter, but I don't go off the deep end about it.

I believe that tolerance and respect for differing opinions is sadly lacking in many areas.

Regards Boo Boo

AnswerID: 219026

Reply By: Crackles - Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 21:50

Thursday, Feb 01, 2007 at 21:50

Ahh sitting back weeks later with the advantage of hindsight, what the DSE would pay that. Unfortunately they have to make the hard decisions with the information they have at the time & even after reading the report you must admit they were damn unlucky to be swapping crews over exactly when embers from a fire that looked well under control are blown accross containment lines following a wind change. I often wonder how well those who critisize the system would go at making the hard decisons themselves? ;-) Do you backburn during a quiet period when conditions are favorable with the intent of saving property or do you just let the fire come in it's full fury the next day???
For every mistake some of these departments make it's unfortunate you don't hear of the many success's they do have. Of course you must have heard about the controlled burn in the Upper Rose river valley that saved 500 acres of pines & several houses (including Typo Station)...........No, well that's only because the TV & papers don't think it as newsworthy as beating up the mistake of a Government Department. Unfortunate really & so is labelling DSE the dept of Sparks and Embers for making a handfull of errors each year whilst doing an otherwise good job in difficult conditions. It's certainly impossible pleasing everybody all of the time. I'm all for accountability but this incessant hounding of the DSE is probably a little unnessesary particually on a 4x4 forum.
Cheers Craig...............

AnswerID: 219094