4 x 4 systems lokkas

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 20:28
ThreadID: 42213 Views:2018 Replies:9 FollowUps:29
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hi all and thanks to all who answered to my last question,i got a reply from andrew from vivid adventures which raised another question, can any one tell me anything about 4 x 4 systems lokkas, how do they work, are they any good, what are they like off road and are there any dramas on road?
cheers
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Reply By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 20:37

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 20:37
I had one in my 80 and loved , I did shear the pins in it once . had to come home 2000 with diff locked lol
AnswerID: 221141

Reply By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 21:14

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 21:14
They have a lot of info on their website ...

www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/lokka.htm - like most company websites you need to read past the hyperbole a little, but better info than most.

But fitting to a constant 4WD requires conversion to a part-time 4WD and adding the extra cost ... so I'm not doing Lokkas for my 100 series.

I've driven part time 4WDs with Lokkas (both one axle and two axle setups) and they work as advertised. Perhaps the two axle setup is a little more tetchy in the steering department off road but on road seemed fine.

Cheers
Andrew.
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Reply By: fnq triton - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 21:37

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 21:37
i've got one in the front of my triton and i reckon it's excellent. it helped heaps going up the cape last year but the steering while in 4wd is abit heavier. the missus doesn't like driving it in 4wd drive now but who cares. the steering was the only thing that took abit of getting used but it's fine now. i don't have any dramas on road because it's not full time 4wd but off road they make wheeling so much easier. we had plenty of wheel lifting on the trip and it pulled us through every time
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Follow Up By: Voxson - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:24

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:24
Good to see you back on again mate..
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Reply By: Member - Geoff W (VIC) - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:25

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:25
thanks all, was reading the archives on the subject (sorry should have done that at the start !!!!) so now i am totally confused!
cheers
AnswerID: 221163

Follow Up By: djm67 - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:27

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 22:27
What's to be confused about, they work.
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Follow Up By: acdc - Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 23:30

Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 at 23:30
They don't work! sure they lock up, but never unlock, you may as well pull out the centre and weld it up solid the same result.
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Follow Up By: djm67 - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 00:12

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 00:12
and you have owned this specific brand of unit have you acdc?

I have one (front) of this brand installed in a rodeo and it works great.

I will soon be buying 2 more for my 80 series.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 08:13

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 08:13
ACDC has clearly never driven with them. His statement is completely untrue. Find someone with one fitted to the front (ask here maybe) close to you and see if you can arrange a drive and experience ti change in steering feel for yourself and see if you are happy with it. I find it is no problem but the wife took a while to feel comfortable with it. When you are not in 4WD, it feels just like normal, which many people don't seem to realize. Apart from cost, they have a couple of big differences to airlockers (Truckster, have you driven with the things, especially in sand dune conditions?) You dont have to keep one hand jabbing at the button turning them on and off. This is especially useful when driving through winding dunes when the lokka is really useful as you also want both hands on the wheel. You can go round corners quite happily whereas with the air lokka you have to keep turning them on and off. Where you are going to be doing most of your driving is therefore a factor in choosing auto or air locker.
There seem to be more reports of drivers suddenly finding their air locker is jammed off or on when they need them then there are reports of drivers having failures with autolockers. Check the posts. Not that I think this is a big issue with either.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 23:26

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 23:26
"There seem to be more reports of drivers suddenly finding their air locker is jammed off or on when they need them then there are reports of drivers having failures with autolockers"

That depends where you look for your information.. try Outerlimits4x4, pirate4x4, Ih8mud etc.. you will struggle to find many good words about non air lockers.

PS yes I have driven with them on sand 3 mths ago in Robe. couldnt wait to get back into my GU.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 00:10

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 00:10
Stick with air lockers, and there is no confusion...
AnswerID: 221173

Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 14:09

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 14:09
Geoff W
It really has me amused why some people go and buy the cheaper products and still expext it perform 100% , as far as I am concerned there is only 2 options , as Truckster has just said, Air operated ,[with advantages and Dis-advanteges] or the Detroit Lockers [with advantages and Dis-advanteges] for part time 4x4 , use Detroit No-Spin fully Auto Locker both ends, for full timers use Truetrac. they employ special helical gears to transfer torque instead of clutch packs. They have the same on road action as a standard diff, control wheelspin, and are ideal for the front diffs of Constant 4WD vehicles. and you put the full No-Spin in the rear ,

www.locked-drive.com.au/product.htm

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 15:17

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 15:17
Doug T
"as Truckster has just said, "
Truckster said only look at air operated. You seem to be contradicting him, not agreeing with him.
Those with auto lockers seem quite happy with their performance,(apart from the ACDC comment already dealt with) so in what way don't they perform 100%? Statements made in the discussion re the positives and negatives of the systems seem to me to sum up the issues adequately.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:26

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:26
mfewster
Are you some kind of nut or what, I did not contradict Truckster, I agreed with his statement about Air lockers , stuffed if I know how you can read it any other way , then I added my idea as well about the Detroit , making 2 GOOD ideas ,
As Dr Pimm would say to Greenbottle "Oh what's the use !!! I give up" ..."Good Morning Boys "....Ding....Ding....Ding

PS
You probably wouldn't know who Greenbottle was

Doug

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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:39

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:39
mfewster,

I assume from your authoritative comments on air lockers that you have driven with them. How did you find them?

Matt
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:59

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 16:59
Matt M
Air Lockers when activated give NO differential action at all , IT IS LOCKED .
Matt when I decided to install Diff Locks I studied , I read ,I listened ,and I asked, and when I was sure on which was the best way to go then I made my purchase, It was 1 NO-Spin Detroit Auto Locker for the rear, and 1 NO-Spin Detroit Auto Locker for the front, I have used these to great benefit in Blacksoil mud in North Qld and sand Dunes in the SD , the rear diff is always locked no matter where you drive , no compressor needed, no reaching for a switch to activate the locker after it's too late , even with the front hubs not locked the rear locker is working 100%.
I think I have enough experience to make a comment on Diff Locks and would not waste my time with air lockers , don't get wrong here, air lockers are good , TOO GOOD and that's the only beef I have about them ,
So you must be the expert on air lockers , so I'll ask you ....have you used Auto Detroits , the stuff that works .
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 17:06

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 17:06
Dear Doug
Yep I know Greenbottle and Jack Davey and the rest of that era. Read your post again. Truckster said. Avoid confusion, just stick with an airlocker. You said you agree with him, then tell us about the Detroit Lockers. ????? You still don't see a contradiction??? You state that you are amused by people buying cheaper products that don't perform 100%. 100 %of what?? The descriptions by users of lokkas seem to accurately state the differences of these and other products. As I said, the use you are putting your locker to might determine which one suits your needs best. Your issue is??
Matt, I have never owned air lockers. But I did do my homework, talked to others with them and drove in vehicles with them. I also went through back threads on this forum before making my decision. I am not against airlockers, I just think they have different advantages/disadvantages. You didn't say, which part of my statement do you find to be inaccurate?
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 18:36

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 18:36
Hey Doug T,

Jump off your soapbox for a minute and have a look at who my post was directed at! Mate, I was actually supporting your position.

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 19:04

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 19:04
mfewster,

Not inaccurate, just somewhat hypocritical. You ask Truckster if he has had any experience with the 4WD Systems setup after he offered an opinion. You then offered some thoughts on air lockers. Just thought I would ask the same question of you.

No biggy really, I always enjoy the range of opinions offered on here, it is the strength of the site methinks.

Matt.

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:19

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:19
Matt, criticism is fair enough, but read what I said and don't make it up. At no time did I ask Truckster if he had any experience with 4WD systems. I have had some online arguments with the Truckster over things like speed cameras, but I have a pretty healthy respect for his 4WD knowledge and contributions to these pages. I think you are getting confused with my post 481901 where I queried ACDC's knowledge of what he was talking about (as did did some other posts). Outside the ACDC comment, I haven't attacked anyone. I think I was making (in different words) much the same point as Doug T re the pluses and minuses of totally locking the diff versus auto locking and unlocking and I thought I had been at some pains to say that, in my opinion there were pluses and minuses to both and that I thought the kind of country you might be using them in was a factor,
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FollowupID: 482048

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:24

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:24
I have a lock-rite in the front of the GU, have had for 5 yrs, had the same one in the GQ for 2 yrs, just changed it over to the GU. Works great, no probs, always there when I need it and not when I dont like cornering.

Would have another tomorrow, air lockers are too non-steeriing friendly for me.

And I have never heard someone defend so ferociously that they AGREE with Truckster, usually its the opposite.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:51

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:51
mfewster,

A straight cut and paste from one of your previous posts in this thread:

'(Truckster, have you driven with the things, especially in sand dune conditions?)'

Obviously I am slow and missing something.

Matt.
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FollowupID: 482061

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 23:23

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 23:23
"no reaching for a switch to activate the locker after it's too late"

You should have your lockers engaged before attempting obsticles/terrain.. and it isnt exactly hard to "REACH" all that way to the dash/centerconsole/wheel/roof to turn them on..

more than 99% of comp trucks use Air Lockers.. there must be something in that...

=-============================================

Truckster, have you driven with the things, especially in sand dune conditions?)
Yes, Robe 3 mths ago. had the misfortune to be in a car with them between beach sections in some tight twisty stuff.
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FollowupID: 482082

Follow Up By: mfewster - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 08:45

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 08:45
Matt and Truckster. Apologies. Yes I had forgotten that I asked that question of Truckster. Try to imagine the question as having been put in a somewhat softer tone of voice than that which I suspect you imagined I had used in asking it. I know T. is very fond of his airlockers, I wasn't casting doubts on his 4WD knowledge. I wanted to know if he had used lokkas in sand dunes? I should have said winding, on and on dunes, like the Simpson. Again, my point is that I think where you intend using them is relevant to the choice. Sand on beaches is a very different experience to sand on line after line of dunes where you are turning, trying to keep an eye out for vehicles coming over the crest and trying to keep traction and pick a line.
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FollowupID: 482115

Reply By: Member - Karl - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 17:40

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 17:40
Geoff,

I'll try and answer your question for you; however, I don't have a 4 x 4 systems lokka to my front diff, I only have a Lockrite fitted in the rear diff of my 80 Series Cruisers.

As far as I am aware the 4 x 4 systems lokkas and the Lockrite are very similar in design and work in the same way.

They are an automated diff lock which means they are active all of the time - that is in the locked state, unless they are required to release - such as when you turn the corner or go around a round-about. Sometime due to your speed or the size of the turn you can feel the locker re-engaging - and I do mean feel sometimes with a thump and the first couplee of times it happens it will make you jump.

Because they are permently locked the reccommendation if you are fitting them to the front diff on a constant 4WD - i.e Cruiser (not the standard but the GXL and above) then you need to fit a part time kit, otherwise the steering will be affected and in particular your turning circle and it will feel heavier due to the diffs being locked. So there is the added cost of fitting a part-time kit for your hubs.

On a Part-time activated 4WD this doesn't occur until the hubs are locked.

So you have to decide is there a benefit - of course they will improve your off road ability but at cost to your steering, so therefore you will have to learn to adjust your driving style.

With air lockers the same will happen anyway once you activate them - that is your steering is affected because the diffs are locked.

One advantage of automatic lockers is that you don't have to worry about forgeting to activate them when you need them - especially if you need them right away.

The other advantage is cost - air lockers are more expensive than auto lockers.

Ulitmately it is up to you what you want but first you need to ask yourself if you really need a locker of the front diff and would you use it enough to warrant the costs.

Hope this helps.

Karl
AnswerID: 221263

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 19:32

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 19:32
Karl
If your fitting an Auto locker to a full time 4x4 then the Truetrac or similar must be fitted ,not sure what you mean by fit a part time kit,

Truetracs employ special helical gears to transfer torque instead of clutch packs. They have the same on road action as a standard diff, control wheelspin, and are ideal for the front diffs of Constant 4WD vehicles.

For part time 4x4.
and as what my Landcruiser has both ends
These automatic, positive locking, differentials are the ultimate, 100% boost, in traction performance for light vehicles regularly in service on very difficult ground. The Detroit Locker® is a NoSpin® differential in its own hemisphere case.

The NoSpin® differential has been in service for nearly 50 years, boosting traction in 2 and 4WD trucks by preventing single wheel spin.
The strength and reliability of NoSpins ensures a long, maintenance free service life.
The automatic operation removes any responsibility from the driver to make decisions as to when extra traction may be needed. When the ground surface is bad, the NoSpin® automatically maintains traction without driver intervention.
2WD utilities and trucks have a greatly increased usage factor when no longer restricted to hard surfaces and favourable weather. The improved traction gives a 2WD with a locking diff about 75% of the capability of a 4WD, at a fraction of the cost - not just the initial cost, but the ongoing expense.



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Follow Up By: Member - Karl - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 09:51

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 09:51
Doug,

You can by part time kits for constant 4WD such as Cruisers and Discos.

It consists of free wheeling hubs etc and the Centre Diff lock button in your vehicle activates it when pressed - of course you also have to lock in your new free wheel hubs.

They cost about $550 per kit from suppliers such as 4 x 4 Systems and Marks Adaptors.

A number of people fit them to their constant 4WD for many reasons - not just for the added benefit of fitting a front lokka.

Karl
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 09:55

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 09:55
Karl
I would presume it would be for improved economy. that would be my motive
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Follow Up By: Member - Karl - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 19:29

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 19:29
The advertising blurbs claim up to 10% in fuel savings - I don't know if it is true or not.

Karl
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Reply By: Middle Jeff - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 20:58

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 20:58
Hi Geoff

Firstly I have air lockers, front and rear. The front made the biggest change. I have driven 4wdrives with lokkas but I have draged lots more back to the road, I am in a club that does mostly touring stuff with the odd harder trip, they break CV's I pulled out 4 in 6 months, no one uses them in our club anymore.
As far as having to turn buttons on and off and this being hard, no it is not! I think some people are looking for problems that do not exsist.

Have fun

Craig
AnswerID: 221297

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:25

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:25
broken CV's in yota's? Or Patrols?
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Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:47

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 at 21:47
Hi Bonz

Personally, a Suzuki, Triton, Hilux x 2. If you go onto the outers forum you will soon find out they do not have favourites.

Have fun

Craig
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FollowupID: 482059

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 12:04

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 12:04
Hmmm, me thinks broken CV's are the driver not the lokka or locker!!
Makes NO difference what locker you have fitted if you put enough load on one CV it will break...they dont care if its locked by air or auto, they dont think at all, they are metal hahahah!

Peoplel need to chill and stop a stupid war about who's got the best locker and just accept they all do the same job if installed CORRECTLY and stop bagging the other choice!
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Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 19:52

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 at 19:52
Hmmm, me thinks you do not know how they work, a normal diff transfers power to the wheel with the least resistance, lift a wheel and all the power goes to it. A lockright does the opposite it transfers the power to the wheel with the most resistance, lift a wheel and all the power goes to the one on the ground, so if something goes wrong and you slide back and the wheels change then the power switches from one to the other and bingo no CV and it would not be the first to have the second one blow because the broken one gives no resistance. An air locker just locks both axles, nothing more, nothing less.

They do not all do the same job, if they did no one in their right mind would pay a thousand dollars more for one over another.

I do not know if you where trying to be insulting or not, but you did your self no favours with a reply like yours.

Have fun

Craig
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FollowupID: 482232

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 10:17

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 10:17
hahahahah where did you do your trade certificate??

I have driven, owned and installed both and they do they same job...go research about it instead of listening to OTHERS!!!
Your example is totally flawed and pointless in your argument to ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER and the result of broken CVs! They are locked whether its with air or auto...BOTH will drive on one wheel...HENCE ITS LOCKED and BOTH WILL LEAD TO BROKEN CVs if you DRIVE INCORRECTLY or dont understand the limitations of your driveline!

Thats the point, read and learn and stop touting crud you hear "around the traps".

Money, scare mongering and one persons personal choice is why people pay thousands more for air locker....thats the freedom of choice! Good onto them! If they buy them and enjoy and dont regret their purchase then its a good day for everyone...there is no need to denegrate a product just because it wasnt YOUR choice...thats just uneducated and insulting...prob the reason this forum gets so heated in these debates...knockers should stick to facts and leave feelings out and we can all enjoy the information and experience shared!

Good day!
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FollowupID: 482336

Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 21:02

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 at 21:02
Well, I guess you answered my question, you where trying to be insulting.

If you would like to discus the pros and cons or even the tech side off diff locks I would love to do that, but if you just want to be rude then you will have to find someone else.

Have fun

Craig
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FollowupID: 482492

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 at 10:21

Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 at 10:21
Haha yeah nice try Jeff...answered your questions, posted the info you need to correct your statements and if you cant get that...well I see why you dont understand how a locker works!

Cya
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FollowupID: 482591

Reply By: Member - Hughesy (SA) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:51

Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:51
Geoff, I put one in my old 75 series front end. The steering was slightly heavier when in 4x4 on hard dirt but nothing to be a worry. Never had an issue with it.

The BIGGEST tip if you install one is make sure its installed correctly and preferably by someone that has done one before and you trust. There is a set tollerance that must be achieved - if its not then the system won't work as designed which I personnally believe leads to alot of the "negatives" that people write up here about the Lokka. The instructions give you some simple tests to undertake to check that its operating correctly. If your getting it done in a workshop by someone, do the test in the shop before leaving. Could save you grief down the track.
AnswerID: 222080

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