Starting from a dual battery setup

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 14:28
ThreadID: 42521 Views:2826 Replies:9 FollowUps:6
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G'Day All,

I have read of people starting their vehicles which have had flat batteries, and then claiming 'thank god for the dual battery system'

This poses a question for me.....

I have a dual battery system, just a basic one, isolates when shut down, charges main vehicle battery first, then aux.

Thats it, thats all I'm aware it can be used for, so if I had a flat, I'd need to physically disconnect all my toys from my aux, and hump it round to front and jump off it in the normal way.

Are there better upmarket isolators which have the capability to 'reconnect' your aux for starting? (without the need to actually remove and jump from them)

Or will mine do it if main totally flat, it has no manual switches on it, basic one from Derek at ABR?

Curious as to how this can be done................my guess is long enough jump leads to go from rear to front about only way.... or do you know different?

Rgds

Ron
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Reply By: Tony - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 14:36

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 14:36
A wire from the aux battery to the power inlet on your isolator will engage the isolator and join th e two battries togethet. Start as normal.

Further to this you can put a return to centre switch in the wire and mount it on the dash an do the same thing.
AnswerID: 222905

Follow Up By: phil - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:04

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:04
That assumes that the remote battery has a heavy enough cable to carry the starter current without too much drop.

Only one jumper is needed because the earths are common. Also assuming decent earth connection. Seems the easiest solution for a rare event.

Phil I
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FollowupID: 483772

Follow Up By: GQ_TUFF - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:52

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:52
Yep thats how mine is set up, simple button under dash if I need to get some power from aux battery, I run heavy duty wire to carry all or most of the amps over.

Simple but works for me

Stefan
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FollowupID: 483813

Reply By: Outbacktourer - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 16:38

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 16:38
Redarc isolators have provision for an in-cab over-ride switch...
AnswerID: 222931

Reply By: Derek - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:09

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:09
Hi Ron,

How far back is the battery. You would need very heavy cable to start off the rear battery. What do you drive and what size and cca is the aux ?

Give me a ring to discuss if needed.

Regards

Derek.
AnswerID: 222938

Follow Up By: Ron173 - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:33

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 17:33
Derek,

its a navara dual cab 3.2 diesel, and battery is mounted in far left rear corner, original cabling to it is as you supplied me with my kit.

The aux is 85ah deep cycle.

Its not a prob, never had it happen, if really had to would just dismount it and use my jumpers, or buy another set of jumpers n join em up (temporary)

I'd just wondered if it was poss without the lifting of a heavy battery.

thanks anyway

Ron
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FollowupID: 483776

Reply By: hoyks - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:55

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:55
I just use one heavy jumper lead. + to + and away you go. Both batteries are already earthed to the block with heavy cable.
AnswerID: 222987

Follow Up By: hoyks - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:57

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:57
Of course it is an under bonet setup. For elsewhere in the vehicle a longer jumper lead may be the go.

Make your own from a length of welding lead.
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FollowupID: 483816

Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:58

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 19:58
Hi ron,

My Patrol had a flat starter battery a while ago, I used a single jumper lead to connect the "+"s together to start the engine. Starting current requires lotsa amps, which is why the lead from the battery to the starter motor is so big, and also why "decent" jumper leads are so big. The contacts on the average isolator are problably not rated to withstand engine cranking amps so I personally wouldn't try that. (mine is the Redarc isolator with the overide wire, on mine it is not connected.)

If it was my ute, either a VERY large cable from the second battery to the starter for emergency starts, or the "physically disconnect all my toys from my aux, and hump it round to front and jump off it in the normal way." method.

Another method is to buy a "jumper battery", I bought one from Repco, it has two 12V sockets on it as well, and we use that to run our camp lighting. Works a treat! We get days and days (should that be Nights and nights????) out of the battery in between re-charges, and providing it is charged enough, it should start the engine if it had to. I haven't tried this as I haven't needed to, but the idea is there!!

Cheers

Brian

AnswerID: 222988

Reply By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 23:57

Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007 at 23:57
I have a Redarc as well. Like above, the "jumpover' switch isn't wired up. The main problem I see with this type of set up is that it "Connects both batteries together".

If one battery is already prettyy well flattened or worse it's totally wiped out and has become totally useless, you then run the risk of "emptying" a good battery into bad one.

If the good battery is your last hope at getting started, you could end up with 2 flat batteries.

I always keep my second battery well away from the first one.

Besides which I have a generator,,,,,,

Bilbo
AnswerID: 223057

Follow Up By: Member - Pedro the One (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 00:52

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 00:52
And me , too ...........

As an electrically-impaired person I wait with bated breath for more responses .....

I have a similar set-up to Bilbo above [a Redarc] with an over-ride connection not wired up yet ......... [on account I am unsure of how to ??] from one of Derek's Dual Battery set-ups.

Have the main battery in engine-room and second battery mounted in the rear of my Troopy, with Derek's HD wiring, etc.

Positive lead from main to Redarc - Redarc to circuit breaker - circuit breaker back to second battery.

Second battery is earthed to chassis frame.

[I have also a momentary-push button, yet to be installed and connected.]

Made up my own battery-box set-up, again with one of Derek's voltmeter gauges and a couple of lighter sockets and all is good for me ............

BUT I do wish to do the same as you blokes above, that is use the second battery to start my engine, should I ever be silly enough to empty the main ...........again!!

And, like you Bilbo, I carry my little [GMC850] generator just for battery-charging.

So, how do I get around it ........... without then running the risk of "emptying" a good battery into the bad one ?

Where does the over-ride switch fit in ?? And the push-button ?
And what does it all mean ?

Am willing to learn .............

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FollowupID: 483925

Reply By: Bilbo - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 01:43

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 01:43
Pedro,

Wiring up a push button switch on a Redarc is easy. Just follow the instructions that came in the box. If you don't have 'em, I've got a copy somewhere OR I think there's instructions on Redarc's website.

BUT - it will only give you the problem above. It will only result in connecting together 2 batteries.

The only way to avod this dilemma is that the number one battery has to be disconnected - SOMEHOW - and that means a darn great, heavy duty switch, using BIG cables and BIG terminals. Then you have to have yet another set up just like the first one above, that switches the second battery into the starter system AFTER you've switched out the number one battery.

The best way to do this is with a Marine Battery Switch. These are designed for the big amps that come into play when starter motors are used. These marine switches have switch positions for - "First battery","Second battery" and "Both Batterys". There's a lot of copper in 'em and last time I looked they're not cheap. And neither is the Heavy Duty cable for wiring 'em up.

Check 'em out in Marine Catalogues or do a Google.

Bilbo
AnswerID: 223072

Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:15

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:15
Hi

Jumper leads needs to be big, that is thick especially for diesel.

Don't be fooled by the so called "200 AMP" jumper Leads from the "discount" shops. It is the cross sectional area of the copper that counts not the thickness of the plastic to make it look like a thick cable.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 223087

Reply By: Ron173 - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:32

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:32
G'Day

Once again thanks for all replies. This has turned into quite a discussion, which has given me another possible solution to the ocassional problem of this happening.

As mentioned above just join the pos to pos seems a great idea.

Then a long jumper lead...... which led me to thinking, why not just join your 2 existing jumper leads together with the big crocs, to make one long lead which of course you attach to pos to pos??

(just to remind people, this 2nd battery is in rear of dual cab next to fridge)

My leads are 400amp leads about 1/2" thick, so I'm thinking this would be the go, just join them.

Hopefully someone can advise if this is a safe way to go?

Rgds

Ron
AnswerID: 223089

Follow Up By: vcbb - Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:52

Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 at 09:52
Ron

I have a Navara too and have a battery in the back. I have purchased an Opposite Lock dual battery monitor in my cab o monitor both batteries, and this has a button so I can engage (similar to what is described above) both batteries. it is easy to install.
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FollowupID: 483955

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