Dynamic Tire Balancing

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 14:46
ThreadID: 42758 Views:3075 Replies:7 FollowUps:17
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anybody here using a dynamic balancing approach to their tires ?
and what product do you use ?

If you do not know what I am talking about read this
www.innovativebalancing.com/ as an example
there are other solutions but this one looks the best

I am thinking to use the ceramic beads in a new set of tires after
they have been laterally balanced and not using any weights for
the "spin" balance. There is many advantages to dynamic balancing
but the tire shops I have asked don't even have a clue what I am
talking about ...

Interested to hear your experiences
gmd
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Reply By: greydemon - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 17:04

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 17:04
Sorry, can't help you. When I buy new tyres the tyre fitter balances them. The tyres then get moved around from corner to corner and deflated and re-inflated from time to time until they wear out. Then new ones get fitted and balanced.

I seem to recall that once (on a sedan) I had a weight fall off but it was cheap and easy to get the tyre rebalanced. Other than I can't say that I have ever had a problem, particularly a problem which would persuade me to put beads in my tyres - in spite of their claim I maintain that having nothing in your tyres is less abrasive than having beads. Also, I couldn't really work out the cost for a 4x4 but it seemed to be about US$70 plus odds and ends , this is around $90-95.

If you decide to go this way _gmd_pps keep careful figures of before and after fuel consumption and let us know if there are any benefits, I am always happy to learn.
AnswerID: 224375

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 17:25

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 17:25
they are widely used in the US
one tire is 10A$ roughly when you purchase individual
no other weights required ..
it's not about the weights falling off, its about balancing
the wheel when tires wear or chip etc ..
the boys using it definately confirm increased life and less
inbetween balancing ..
fuel consumption is not affected as far as I have read
.. and if so .. I wouldn't care ...
there is nothing abrasive about it .. when you run 12+2 tires on your
rig you think carefully about the well being of your tires .. not so much
for the mileage you get but for the safety when you move around some
8 tonnes over all sorts of terrain ..
have fun
gmd

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FollowupID: 485262

Follow Up By: Old Gold - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:06

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:06
I have not long fitted new tyres to my troopie.Instead of weights they used the "bags" Its like a bag of sand that they put in the tyre when fitting after about 10 ks of travelling the bags break open which then spreads around the tyre and balances it this lasts the life of the tyre
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FollowupID: 485275

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:26

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:26
is it sand ? or powder ?
Have heard of cases where the bags don't release all the contents
and create a weight which is not counterbalanced . Had any problems ?
Some use a special liquid ...
The ceramic beads supposedly have the advantage of being non abrasive ..
so you have no weights only the "bag" ... whats your experience so far ?
thanks
gmd
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FollowupID: 485286

Reply By: Old Gold - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:02

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:02
Never seen the contents i guess its some kind of powder all i can do is ask local tyre bloke
AnswerID: 224405

Follow Up By: Old Gold - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:04

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:04
Not had any problems so far nor have i travelled a lot of k's either
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:48

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:48
powder can clump from condensation I have heard ...
hope it works for you
thanks for the answers
gmd
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FollowupID: 485372

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:10

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:10
Saw it at Wandin, it looks the goods
.
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AnswerID: 224406

Reply By: MYTTUF - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:22

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:22
I did some searching last year searching for a way to balance my beadlocked swampers and came up with a few options but settled on MAGNUM. It worked so well with the swampers I tried it with the all terrains with the same fantastic results and then looked further into the product and started autobalance.com.au. Anyway check out www.autobalance.com.au for more info.
Jason
AnswerID: 224409

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:51

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:51
I would not even look at a product when a website does not specify
the material and/or coating of the material .. let alone the quantity
being packed and charged ...
thanks but no
gmd

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FollowupID: 485375

Follow Up By: MYTTUF - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:28

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:28
You asked if anyone has used this type of product. I simply answered your question honestly. I have found most people buy products because they work and most don't bother with the technical jargon. MAGNUM is a silica based product that is free flowing, wont clump due to dessicant that keeps it dry and therefore quick to respond to changes, unlike sand and the like, are made to balance tyres and will not damage the inside of the tyres.
We recommend different quantities based on tyre & rim type. Forinstance a mechanically beadlocked Simex tyre will need more product than the same sized all terrain tyre on an alloy rim. The application chart you have probably seen advises how much to use for road tyres, and as we cater for the serious off road people as well as the tourer, the web site was set up so the the decision could be made at our end and rather than the customer.
The customer will make the final decision based on their research. Like you I liked the idea but couldn't get any real answers so started autobalance.com to provide people like you an alternative to wheel weights.
Jason
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FollowupID: 485419

Follow Up By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 08:55

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 08:55
Hey Jason

Saw the product at wandin and like it. actually have the brochure on my desk beside me. Can see the advantage when running large muddies like Simex's etc, mine were a shocker to balance, ended up selling the tyres and rims cause the were so bad. Definately see a place for this.

_gmd_pps

I think you started this thread and showed interest in the product, why asked the question if you have no interest in a product where the website doesn't have all the information you want, yet you posted the website up. The basically have ago at someone answering your question.
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FollowupID: 485436

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 14:57

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 14:57
Crazie,

the fact I don't like is that someone is pushing a commercial website with incomplete information. I know the Magnum product and when you go to the US website it tells you a few more things ..
Not devisible
Use dry air !
two major points .. the boys in the US (especially FL) have reported trouble with compounds in humid environments .. the fact that it is non devisible makes it way more expensive because you can not bulk buy and separate ...
if you can not provide a valid application chart with quantities (weights) for each tire one can not work out requirements/cost .. etc etc .. I can't be bothered send a request fro that sort of information.
I am just allergic to that way of business .. sorry .. When someone has a commercial interest in a product I am not interested in his opinion .. I usually can work out my position by knowing the technical facts and some unbiased user feedback is desirable.
Sorry, but thats just me ... I own and run 3 businesses but I would never even think about promoting any of my activities on a forum like this unless I decide to advertise officially.

have fun
gmd

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FollowupID: 485499

Follow Up By: MYTTUF - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:26

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:26
gmd
I only answered your question and at no time did I advise you to buy it. I advised you to check out the web page. Anyway you seem to know so much about this method of balancing tyres it seems kinda strange you asked a question in the 1st place. I, like you, am on here to offer advise which is what I did. I'm sorry you are upset but I'm sure you'll be ok.
Jason
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Reply By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:58

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:58
this is an awesome idea. basicly you could use fine dry sand, water or any substance which conforms to the shape of its container. I currently have slime in one tyre to fix a hole, slime would also do the trick, costs $25 per tyre and has the added advantage that if you puncture the tyre up to 6mm it will self fix for the life of the tyre. I may try taking off all the weight and putting slime in all the other tyres and see what happens.
AnswerID: 224437

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:53

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:53
it needs to flow easy ... and not being abrasive ..
in your case I am not sure if it "flows" properly
gmd
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FollowupID: 485376

Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 09:43

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 09:43
the only reason this sandy stuff flows at all is because it liquifies due to the vibration, water does not need this to flow properly. Water is not used because it could cause rust and could also evaporate over time. Slime is designed for tyres and much more viscous than sand. So in my case it actually "flows" better, but these guys obviously own a nusery and were looking for new markets for their sand. The only other consideration is weight, you would need to compare sand W/W with water and slime. This means you may have to add more water to reach the same weight level as sand but in the end it does not make a difference. They all work, and the stuff which flows better will work better.
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FollowupID: 485447

Follow Up By: MYTTUF - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 10:49

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 10:49
The last statement made is why balancing compounds are better at balancing tyres than any other material. People have used all sorts of things including sand, water/anti freeze mix, golf balls. ball bearings to do so. Some work good, some wear out, but most will damage the inside of the tyre and rim.
As previously posted I tested many balancing compounds and ended up with MAGNUM as it has far better flow-ability, is better at dealing with moisture so therefore will work better for us and our 4wds.
Jason
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FollowupID: 485460

Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 13:09

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 13:09
ok, if you have tested all this stuff and have found one which works the best, then I place more value in that then reading net sites so i believe you. The main point I am making is that the slime type products probably will help alignment problems, it is designed to be in the tyre for its life so also wont damage anything, and finally you get the added benefit of instant and easy puncture repair up to 6mm thick puncture. Also this stuff is cheaper.
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FollowupID: 485485

Follow Up By: MYTTUF - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:36

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:36
I assume you meant balance and not allignment. You are correct in all points if the slime ends up being roughly the same weight that would be required to balance using wheel weights. Due to it not being as free flowing it wioll take longer to react after change caused by speed, cornering, terrain ect. Oh and I believe MAGNUM will work out costing roughly the same as slime.
Keen to know if you have any luck balacing using the slime.
Jason
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FollowupID: 485551

Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:35

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:35
No i ment wheel alignment, it also replaces head gaskets and oil changes. Yeah I know what your saying is you need the weight of fluid/sand/magnum in the wheel enough to counter any possible balance problem.
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FollowupID: 485589

Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 21:33

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 21:33
Good one !! Keep it coming !!!

Ever heard of .............. ROSARY BEADS ........

If so :

Have they ever helped you ?
AnswerID: 224449

Reply By: Eric Experience - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:00

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:00
gmd.
If you are having problems with tire balance you should first determine if your wheels are round. An out of round wheel can be balanced on a machine but if it is not round it gives a rough ride. when an out of round wheel wears it can not wear evenly because of the weights so it then gets a flat spot about 90 degrees after the high spot. this flat spot changes the balance and the driver usually complains that the tires are crap or the balancer is a mug. The truth is that the driver is a mug for not testing the wheels. It is very easy to test the wheels, all you do is jack up the axle until there is a 1mm gap under the tire and then spin the wheel by hand, if any part of the tire touches the ground you wheels are suspect. Any decent brand of tire is round when new. From years of experience I can assure any driver that if your wheels are round you will not need any rebalancing or any gimmick junk. Wheels are normally cheaper than tires, a round wheel will give the longest tire life so will pay for itself as well as save on wear on shockers and steering. Cheep wheels are often crook especial if sold at discount prices because a dealer gets a complaint about a wheel and then changes it over until he gets a set of crook wheels and then sells them in the trading post. If you see a wheel with a stack of weights on it you can bet London to a Brick that the wheel is bent. Eric
AnswerID: 224463

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:55

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 22:55
I know the theory .. but you obviously missed a point ..
never mind and stick to your science
gmd
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FollowupID: 485378

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