More Torque Please

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 14:54
ThreadID: 42790 Views:7219 Replies:14 FollowUps:11
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I'd like a bit more oomph from my Hilux when getting moving.

If you look at my rig, you'll see that we can be pretty fully loaded when we hit the road. GVM is around 2,800KG, including CT ball weight (right on vehicle capacity). The CT weighs 1,500 KG fully loaded. I also have slightly oversize (31 inch) tyres. I've got Firestone airbags on the rear leaf springs so the vehicle rides nice and level despite the weight.

Once we get moving on the highway, there is no problem. The Hilux handles the weight very well. Getting moving is the problem, particularly up hill and off road / in sand.

I'm looking for some 'simple' cost effective ways of getting a bit more get and go into the 'Lux.

Options I am aware of are:
Larger (2 3/4 or 3 inch) exhaust. I'm on the Gold Coast, so would probably go to Beaudesert Exhausts for this if I get it done. Likely cost around $1,000 fitted.

Chip. I am aware of the Dtronic, DP Chip and Steinbauer, but there are more. Which is the best? Or are they all much the same? Likely cost around $1,400 to $1,500. The specs from manufacturers web sites would have you believe that the DP chip will give the biggest power and torque improvement. I have no idea if this is correct.

Diesel Gas conversion. This is reported to give very good results. Likely cost is around $2,500 after government rebate. But I'd be adding more weight (gas tanks and gas) and need to find a spot for the gas tank.

I can't afford them all and suspect the drive train might not handle it anyway if they all do what the manufacturers / salesmen say.

I was originally leaning towards the gas conversion, but more recently leaning towards either or both of the exhaust and chip. Both together would cost around the same as the ga conversion. I also have the option to do one and see if I'm happy, before spending any more money.

So the key questions are:
What do those with knowledge of such things think overall?
Which Chip?
How much of a gain can I expect from a bigger mandrel exhaust?
If I go the way of the exhaust and Chip, which should I get first? Essentially, which will give the biggest bang for my bucks.

Thanks
Norm C
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Reply By: Tony - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:00

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:00
Go back to smaller tyres.
AnswerID: 224579

Reply By: traveller2 - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:13

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:13
My thoughts exactly go back to the correct size tyres, a roughly 10% gain in gearing which allow the vehicle to perform as it's maker intended ;-))
AnswerID: 224583

Follow Up By: Time - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:49

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:49
X3
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FollowupID: 485506

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:13

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:13
Thanks for the responses Tony, Traveller2 and Time, but that's not quite the solution I am after.

Firstly, the standard tyres have a circumference of 2318.5mm and do 431 revs per KM. The current tyres have a circumference of 2478mm and do 405 revs per KM. Thats a change of 6.03%. Thats a lot (40%) less than the 10% quoted above.
Although a tyre change would help, I seriously doubt it would have anything like the impact I'm after.

Second, the vehicle will be that much less suited to the purpose we use it for.

Apart from that, even with a good trade in on current tyres, going back to standard size would cost at least as much as the exhaust, probably more. I have 9 tyres of the same type and size. 5 for the vehicle, 3 for the CT, plus an extra spare for long trips. All are interchangable, so I'd have to change them all.

So thanks for the input, but if I make any change, I doubt it will be to smaller tyres.
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:15

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:15
Just found this on the DPChip web site:
www.dpchip.com/dynos.html

There is one there for a DP Chip and 3 inch exhaust. Impressive overall result.

Also one for a comparison between Dtronic and DP Chip. Naturally (being a DP Chip site), the DP comes out better than the Dtronic.

Norm C
AnswerID: 224584

Follow Up By: Member - Nobby - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:41

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 15:41
G'Day Norm, I ran this question about three days ago and didn't get a response. Your'e luckier than I am. I spoke to a lot of exhaust people and they reckon I would get a good increase in P/T by just putting on a 3inch exhaust and not the chip. If I was not impressed by this it is just a simple matter of adding the chip on later. Whichever way you go the exhaust is a must, so do that first and see how it goes. I have a Prado TDI. Nobby
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Reply By: Batman69 - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 16:15

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 16:15
Norm,

I had a Patrol with a Dtronic chip, and it made a huge difference. I now have a new Hilux and if I had the extra cash I would get a chip for it and not worry about the exhaust or gas conversion.

I have no affiliation with any chip manufacturer but my preference would be the DP chip as it is more transferrable across different vehicles, which I think is reffered to on the sales pitch.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
AnswerID: 224586

Reply By: Twinkles - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:09

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:09
I have an '04 Hilux. I'm going to do the exhaust (Beaudesert 2 3/4") first, then later the dieselgas.
I like the fact that the engine breathes better and reduction in turbo lag from exhaust change. With the dieselgas I like it that less fuel is wasted, cleaner emmissions, cleaner oil, cooler running engine.
I want the imroved torque for towing my camper and off road performance. Hoping for improvement in economy too.
I read somewhere that DP say that their chip doesn't go with dieselgas. Maybe that was from some comment on this site.
Sorry i don't have the technical jargon.
AnswerID: 224599

Reply By: friar - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:56

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:56
Norm a friend of mine had a DPchip on his 4 year old navara,verry impressed with extra performance, now got new Pathfinder auto,which has DPchip fitted from new,tows 15ft caravan,last trip returned 13ltrs per 100kys.Not loaded it is capable of spinning the wheels at the lights, I am thinking of putting one on my new D4D Prado Auto, although it has plenty of go, can never have too much. Friar.
AnswerID: 224608

Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:39

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:39
Gday Norm,

We have a DP chip fitted to our D4D Hilux, we have a friend over here in Adelaide who sells them.....He told us he would fit it and if we liked it we could keep it or give it back.

We had it fitted one Thursday about 18 months ago, the next day we headed of up to the Flinders........WHAT A HUGH IMPROVEMENT.

We are one gear up everywhere we go.......corners we had to go back to second gear for we now take in third and with more power...... and over taking....FANTASTIC.

Best money spent and when you go back to standard you find out how hard the D4D is to drive.

Fuel figures about .5 liter either way.

It transformed and made the Hilux a real joy to drive.

Regards Richard

AnswerID: 224616

Follow Up By: time waster - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:53

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:53
Hi olcoolone,
We live in Adelaide and would like to know where you got the chip from as we have the same hilux.
Thanks
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Reply By: Wayne-o - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:47

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:47
Norm,
I know what you mean about the lack of lowdown torque in those vehicles. they are running such high boost and low compression ratios that the boost is the only thing that hurls them along.
Fitting an exhaust will benifit incredibly. Turbo will spool up sooner and boost higher and for longer, provided that the dump pipe is exchanged with a larger one. Having the turbo spool up sooner, helps obviously to minimise the lag, and lack of torque in low revs. unfortunately with a turbo this can never be eliminted, the only was is to fit a super-charger which will boost from idle...but $$$$ !
Not too sure about the chips, but i have heard good reports, but they all do the same thing...advance pump timing....increase injection pressure and pump flow. Not sure how all this is suppose to REDUCE fuel consumption, but they will definatly alter performance, but IMO only i think they sacrifice longevity of the engine.
If it were me, I would do the exhaust first....I did on the pootrol....its a new car now!....see how you go....and then i would look at reducing your diff ratio. this will give you much needed pull away torque....my brother has done this in the patrol, went to 4.0 from 4.1, much better, i think.
I wouldnt bother with diesel/gas....im not too sure either how using the same amount of diesel, then gas as well is suppose to improve economy, but i have had no exposure to it, only that i wouldnt feel comfortable driving through the simpson with 100l of gas on board on a 60+ day!
Good luck...
hope this help
Wayne-o
AnswerID: 224617

Follow Up By: kiwicol - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:50

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:50
totally agree with wayne-o, Col
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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:56

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:56
totally agree with wayne-o, i have a super-charger on my patrol and this elimanated all the probs you are having, non aof the fixes you are asking about will solve your low down tourge, diff ratios and tyre sizes will do more to help you Col
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Reply By: hoffy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:48

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:48
Have a look at this site www.tdc-technologies.com
I bought a chip for my Jeep from them; 4 days from USA. it has 12 different power settings, 2 minute plug in installation, and it certainly gives a great result. I am running it on the 3rd lowest setting, so much more scope for even greater power boost.
And the best part, it was about 1/2 the cost of the local crop of chips. From memeory $ 570AUD in my mailbox.
AnswerID: 224636

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 20:27

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 20:27
Very tempting Hoffy. But I'm always wary of buyinig something like this from overseas.

For example, their vehicle list has a 2.5 litre Hilux D4D, but no 3.0 litre. There is a 3.0 litre D4D Land Cruiser (probably a Prado), ca I be certain that it is the same motor. And will the installation instructions be for my vehicle?

But the specs and the price look very attractive.
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Follow Up By: hoffy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 22:07

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 22:07
Norm, I had the same hesitation as you, so I fired off an email and had a reply witin a few hours. They were very helpful, all they needed to know was the HP or Kw of the engine concerned.
They were then able to confirm that we were both talking about the same motor.
As I said earlier, their service and delivery was outstanding. I placed the order on the net midday Saturday and it was delivered to my door on Wednesday.
Their delivery system allows you to track the progress of your order with updates every 12 hours.
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:43

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:43
Chev it
AnswerID: 224664

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 00:40

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 00:40
Bloody behave Roachie.
Mongrel.
Please take no more offence than was offered: am about to pick your brains on 'inferior' motors anyway. Jeff.
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Reply By: Member - Michael G (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:54

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 21:54
Hi Norm

I had a 3"vortex system put on my Disco by Tiapan exhausts at nerang.
I then had the Davis chip put in and the difference was amazing.

Mike
AnswerID: 224668

Reply By: Turbo Diesel - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:10

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:10
Norm

good to see the lux is being well used, i wish mine looked as good. My in laws own Ipswich city diesel and Highway diesel at coopersplains, talk to Craig and tell him that aaron recommended him, he will be able to give some advice on what to do. They are having alot of customers of late fitting new chips to the motor, and we are talking decent ones not your rubish pre engine management chips. They specialsie in injectors and fuel pumps, do some work for guys in the outback challenge etc.

I had my cruiser worked on their and it was amazing, with the lux i think they can get it up to about 145kw and over 400nm of talk, regardless of what you do give craig a ring on 3277 5805 and get some advice. If you do the exhaust as well i think you get over 150kw mark.

all the best
AnswerID: 224718

Reply By: Turbo Diesel - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:17

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:17
norm

www.highwaydiesel.com.au/

website above is the company i was talking to you about above. check out the link to performance.
AnswerID: 224720

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 22:49

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 22:49
Well I lashed out and had a Diesel Power Chip fitted today. Made i Germany and imported / marketed in Australia by Diesel Tuning on Gold Coast (just 10 mins from my place). Able to fit and give vehicle a good run before deciding to buy.

Then had dyno done. Pic of dyno result below (I hope). Have posted a photo as I had trouble posting a scan of the printed version.

Key point is 22.5% increase in power, and available lower in the rev range. The previous maximum power is available about 850 RPM earlier. Difference is easily decernable while driving.

Cost was $990 inc GST.
Site Link

Beaudesert mandrel exhaust to come?????
!MPG:18!
AnswerID: 224827

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:05

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:05
Norn

How much more fuel do you have to burn to get 22.5% more power?

Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 08:16

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 08:16
Richard, the major manufacturers of these chips all claim that fuel economy is improved.
From what I've seen, actual results vary between vehicles and drivers. Some claim improvements. Some say no change. I'm yet to hear of someone with a chip who has worse fuel economy.

Don't know what it will do to my economy yet. Time will tell.
But the fuel light came on on the Hilux on the way home from the Dyno. Wonder if that means anything?
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