New Tech Diesels - Are They That Great?

Hi mj1 - i am thinking like you and somehow don't think the hi tech motors will routinely get to the high kms that the old ones generally did. Makes a great 'car' out of a 4wd, but yet to see how long they last.

Yeah don't get me wrong I'm not afraid of technology. The new injected big diesels like the cruiser 4.2s or the v8 (drool) I love!!!!!!

I just understand the limits of mechanical things and wonder about the small capacity engines

what you call the high tech diesels are around for some time, despite the fact that Australia hasn't seen them yet. In the US the larger diesels run in trucks and 4by trucks and many have reached 300,000 miles and above .. thats miles not ks ..
it's just like many people still use a typewriter instead of a computer.. a laptop and a diagnostic tool is part of the tool box as was a timing light ... just because people don't know how to use a computer they mystify the electronics in a car .. it is actually getting easier .. the diagnostic tools get smarter and you can do a lot of preventive maintenance by running the diagnostics .. firmware upgrades can be done to the car just like the upgrade to a digital camera or a modem or any other clever device fro that matter. In some cases firmware upgrades are required to fix a problem in some cases they provide more functionality. Where is the difference of ordering a part in the US or in Australia ? .. well usually I get my stuff quicker from the US .. Like in every industry you have 90% duds and 10% clever ones .. thats true for computer technicians and mechanics etc etc .. the 10% use their brains and learn themselves the other 90% only do what they have been taught and thats usually to much for them to remember anyway ..

the problem with any high tech product is the service for the ones who don't know because most of theses products go beyond the mental capacity of those who deal with them. It's mostly not a technical problem .. it's education and intellect.

and the clever ones usually do not work for dealers ... they mostly run their own business ..

good luck
gmd

Mate you are stuck in the time of Pre combustion chambers, indirect mechanical injection and all the rest.

Why are the new ones making more power than the old ones well

Direct injection and the combustion chamber design that goes with it gives better thermal efficiency, computer controlled injection and common rail dilivery gives more accurate fuel delivery= more power and better economy.

Advances in metallurgy have allowed lighter and stronger components to be used allowing better power to be developed well keeping the engine relatively light

Electronic sensors and computers allow fine-tuning of overall running of the engine

Look at all the big diesel engine manufactures, Detroit, MTU, Caterpillar, Cummins Etc you would be hard pressed to find a engine that doesn’t have a computer bolted onto the side these days.

What does a turbo intercooled TB42 put out 114Kw 330Nm of toque in 2001

Cummins had a 3.9 litre non intercooled turbo diesel in the early 90’s that did 130hp and 355lb-ft of toque> sure it only did 100kw but it out toques the 4.2 by 151Nm, give the fuel pump a tweak and the lb-ft fingers gets close to 500 lb-ft

In Australia we have become complacent with crap low tec, under powered jap diesel engines, and for some reason everybody things they are fantastic.

MJ1

These 'new' generation diesel engines are here for the following reasons:

(1) Evolution - natural progression of diesel technology

(2) Petrol technology nearing or at its evolutionary end date. ie reached its development peak.

(3) Meeting ever stringent EPA standards ie pollution control.

(4) Diversity of fuel sources.

(5) Constant search for more (power) at less cost.

Eg.

In the USA now a transport truck can leave the East Coast and travel to the West Coast , stopping for driver changes, refueling etc (basically non stop) over different terrain (mountains, deserts, snow ines) and the engine mapping is constantly monitored via GPS satelite technology, which alters same as required to meet the most efficient output of the engine whilst complying with state EPA laws that the vehicle is moving through.

The driver/s have no idea whats happening other than that the truck is going like 'cut cat' and using minimal fuel.

There is also a system in place to change the oil on these trips and dispose of the 'used oil' through the engines fuel system. Again without transgressing the pollution laws.

Its the 'new diesel world' so either accept it, use it or keep good old faithful for as long as you can.

As for repair costs - they are deadly to the pocket.

I think I have worked out what these new diesels are all about. They are small capacity so in normal conditions they idle around using small amounts of fuel like all small diesels always have. But in the past when you want power a small diesel with only mechanical inputs have not been able to gulp more fuel to deliver more power, so you would have needed more cc. So now with electrics, when you really need the power, the turbo gives you lots of air, the electronics deliver lots of fuel and you get more bang. I only see two problems with all this, a) structual integrity of the engine, to help with this the new land rover 3.6L twin turbo V8 220kw is CGI and is much stonger and more rigid (BTW the new potential dunnydore VM engine a 2.9L diesel 184kw is also CGI) and so i dont have an issue with the engines lasting a long time if they upgrade the metalurgy side along with the electrics, but if they keep old tech alloys with new high power tech then it could be bad. b) parts cost, if parts do cost as much as you are quoting, then that is bull crap, I pay around $300 for 4 new injectors so I can afford to change them all the time. This makes new engines even if reliable, good for nothing if you cant afford to maintain them, but on the diagnostics side of things it makes for an easy job and a good job too - plug in computer, it tells you crap part, you change it and all is well. Makes sense.

The cost of repair is the killer, due mostly to dirty fuel whether it be fungus, dirt or liquid the result is the same, buggered injectors and/or a damaged pump.
There are lots of late model diesel owners that have be caught by dirty fuel, there have been a couple on here lately too. Electronic injectors as fitted to late model common rail engines don't seem to be able to be serviced or cleaned so must be replaced at huge cost, $1200 a pop in some cases and manufacturers deny liability as it is dirty fuel that has caused it, maybe THEY should fit filters that will stop the crap getting through if their fuel system cannot handle it.
I might be a dinosaur (the kids often call me that anyway ;-)) but I'll stick to my old tech vehicle that I can fix on the side of the track and whose parts don't cost me a bomb.
The Chev engine parts are cheap, fully reco injection pump can be had for less than $500, injectors cost around $100 for a set of 8 and glowplugs are about $2 each!!
Parts are ordered online and arrive at my door within the week, try asking your friendly Tojo or nissan dealer to do that!!

Had a Kia Sorrento 3.5L V6 Petrol and it guzzled Petrol, couldn't get it under 13.5L in town or on the highway.

Are the new tech diesel's great? Picked an Auto Prado GLX with the D4D Diesel, 2 days ago. Absolute monster of an engine, beatiful 4WD. I'll never go back to Petrol again. I expect to keep this for 10 years.

Couldn't be happier with it.

Back in the early 80s there was a lot of concern regarding the hi tech gasoline port fuel injection systems that replaced carburettors. I doubt that any one would now go back to a carby engine and suffer the reduced reliability, driveability, performance, etc. I suspect the same trend for common rail DI.

Hugh

Seems to me that most of the advances have been driven by emissions law, as well as a quest for greater efficiency - both of these factors will leave you with no choice in the 'diesel showroom'- buy high tech or nothing ! Its a fact of life now, to me - the mainstream common rail 3 litre jobs seem to top out around 127KW (Prado) - jump up to the ultra tech (piezo injector) 3 litres like the Merc in the Jeep and you get 160KW !!
You are right re $$$ - the potential for high cost drama is very high in my view. I'm thinking of taking a small backward techno step for my next conveyance if possible, for the same reasons you have covered.

Suppose its a case of "efficency verses reliability". Anyway, Im taking the ol girl to Jaurdi Stn over easter, I'll have to make sure theres enough coal for the boiler.
hehehe!!......Cheers guys.......
Lionel

Stuck in a time warp.....

Nothing wrong with hitech deisels, I can remember about 15 years ago this debate appeared in heavy road transport.

It went something like "all this electronics and smaller capacitys and horsepower its not for me, these time bombs will never go the distance and what if the electronics play up out in the middle of nowhere then I will be stuck".

As I said that was about 15 years ago and what these criticks found out was less weight, more power, better fuel consumption, longer life, less noise, cooler running and cheaper on maintance.

And with the Triton I am pretty sure that has the OLD series of petrol engine in it.

Regards Richard

I take you on Bilbo :)) ...
no caravan though .. only a boat .. but that is 3t on the new trailer
when finished ..
have fun
gmd