Deep Cycle Battery

Submitted: Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 17:14
ThreadID: 43452 Views:6318 Replies:9 FollowUps:15
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Hello battery experts,

Currently on eBay, a company in NSW is selling deep cycle batteries with the following specs:

BATTERY 12V 120AH-130AH SLA DEEPCYCLE/AGM SEALED

12V 120AH @10hr rate
12v 130AH @ 20hr rate
1000cca

Can someone explain what the @10hr rate and @ 20hr rate means?

Also what does the 1000cca mean?

I currently have an Exide sealed battery which is just 50AH which was expensive compared to an unsealed battery, but 50AH is a bit light on with what I run when were camped. These AGM batteries look pretty good for the price, once I understand what the specs mean!

Thanks
Peter
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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 17:27

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 17:27
Probably stating the obvious here - instead of asking on this forum, why not ask seller a question on E-bay.

The seller is a battery busines so would know the answer.

The 1000cca is the cranking capacity of the battery. A "normal" car battery has much lower cca than this.

AnswerID: 228617

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 17:36

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 17:36
The battery in the prado has 450cca, the one in the hilux is 760cca, 1000 thats pretty good by the sound of it. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:27

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:27
Well thanks for that - I guess then following that approach it would remove about 80% of the posts on this forum. No more sharing knowledge, experiences, traps ets.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:39

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:39
You could have asked the seller, then shared the result and asked here if it was correct or not.

Then you'd be happy not haughty :)
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Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:45

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:45
Your logic escapes me - you say that the people on this forum know enough to check on the accuracy of a suppliers statements, but you don't want people to access this resourse directly hmmmm seems a round-about way to me. And where do you get the "haughty" reference from?
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:59

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:59
The problem with text on a forum is you can't see the other forms of communication that make up a true conversation.

My logic is this - if you are thinking of buying something, ask your technical questions of the seller, then if you want confirmation/explanation/conversation about it the forum is the place. If the seller is an individual, he/she might not know much about the product, but in this case it was a Battery Reseller who might be expected to know what you wanted to know. E-Bay provides the mechanism for this process.

"Well thanks for that - I guess then following that approach it would remove about 80% of the posts on this forum. No more sharing knowledge, experiences, traps ets." reads like a haughty response. No offense intended.
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Reply By: pepper2 - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 18:17

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 18:17
The Price ??????????
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 19:58

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 19:58
price: AU $289.99

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Reply By: Robin - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 19:10

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 19:10
It means how much power it can supply when discharged at different rates

I.E. when discharged in 20 hr it has a little more than when discharged in 10 hours

(20hr is usual figure)

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 228643

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 20:04

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 20:04
Just another issue to watch our for.

These batteries would be BIG mothers and may not fit where you want them to.

Check the footprint size (L x W x H)

You might need a trailer to lug them around.

Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 228659

Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:29

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:29
Yes - it is a big mother of a battery. I am Ok with width and height, but length is 95mm too long for my battery holder darn it!
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Reply By: Mark Taylor - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 20:18

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 at 20:18
The 10 hour rate and the 20 hour rate. I used to be an auto sparky....

Let me see if I can remember my auto electrical theory from 30 years ago.

No battery will give 130 amps for one hour.

So... it might give 13 amps for 10 hours (a good battery)

Or it might give 6.5 amps for 20 hours. (Not so good battery)

Whenever amp hour ratings are mentioned. always ask if they are 10 hour rate or 20 hour rate. The 10 hour rate is a better perfoming battery.

Hope this helps

Let me know if I've confused you more.

Cheers

mark T
AnswerID: 228665

Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:39

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:39
Thanks Mark

To make sure I understand, does that mean that a 20hr @ 6.5amps battery will only produce a max of 6.5amps at any time so if I had an appliance that drew 8amps it wouldn't work?

Also if I have a fridge that _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx 2.5amps then the 10hr & 20hr batteries would be ok, but I would be wasting the 10hr battery capacity so I should go for the 20hr one?

Peter
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:29

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:29
HOW MUCH???????????????????????????????????????/
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

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AnswerID: 228887

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:53

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:53
Read Above .................................................................
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Reply By: Mark Taylor - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:38

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:38
G'Day.. when you write:

"To make sure I understand, does that mean that a 20hr @ 6.5amps battery will only produce a max of 6.5amps at any time so if I had an appliance that drew 8amps it wouldn't work?"

What I think you mean is 6.5 amp hour battery at the 20 hour rate. Which means that the battery can supply 0.325 amps for 20 hours.. not a lot of power.

Does this help?

Cheers

Mark T
AnswerID: 229015

Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 20:23

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 20:23
I thought it did help, but then I thought 0.325 amps X 20hrs = 6.5 amps. However this battery is rated at 130 amps. So how does that come into the equation?

Peter
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Follow Up By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:16

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:16
Peter,

The maths goes like this:

0.325 Amps x 20 Hours = 6.5 AH (Amp hours)

This battery is rated at 130 AH (Amp hours) not 130 Amps.

It means that the battery can delivery 130 AH if you only draw 6.5 Amps - you are therefore doing it over 20 hours.

If you were to draw 8 Amps, then the it might or might not deliver 130 AH because you are trying to get it to deliver up it's capacity in a shorter time. That is why they rate it's capacity differently depending on how many hours you draw it down over.

Of course there are other things they don't tell you such as temperature of the battery, recovery time since recharged, etc. which also affect it.

Electrolytics is a bugger of a thing and complex as all hell, only made worse by adding extreme under bonnet temperatures, vibration and poor maintenance - oh, and need I say it, simplistic marketing.

Cheers
Andrew.
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Follow Up By: pprass - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:08

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:08
Thanks Andrew - that was helpful.

Peter
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Reply By: Mark Taylor - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:06

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:06
Hi Peter.. I think we're not understanding each other.

Let me see...

The battery you have at the start of this thread says:
12V 120AH @10hr rate
12v 130AH @ 20hr rate
1000cca

Let's start at the bottom and work our way up.

1000CCA simply means that the battery can supply 1000 amps in a single draw to start an engine for example and not self destruct. Obviously, it can't do this for long. (Cold Cranking Amps)

130 AH @ 20 hour rate means supply of power of 6.5 amps per hour for 20 hours

120 AH @ 10 hour rate means supply of power of 13 amps per hour for 10 hours

The big advantage of these AGM batteries is this:

With a wet cell battery you really can't use more than half their capacity without damaging them. So a 50 AH wet cell is good for 25 amp hour.

With an AGM you can use up to 90% of their capacity without causing damage to the battery. So, for the purpose of the math we'll use the 120 rate as above. You can get 90% of the 120 AH rating to use, which is 108 amp hours of power.

To get this with a wet cell (remembering the only use 50% rule) you will need a battery bank of 220 amp hours at the 10 hour rate.

Does this help. I have a 130 AGM in my CT and it runs lights and Waeco for 3 - 4 days no problems. Have not gone away for longer period than that, but the previous 100 amp hour wet cell used to die at day 3. Your mileage may vary as it depands on lots of variables such at ambient temp etc and how often your fridge is opened/restocked and how many lights and how long they are on for.

I hope I have explained this to you OK.

Any dramas.. please let me know.

Cheers

mark t
AnswerID: 229093

Follow Up By: pprass - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:07

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:07
OK - I think I was over complicating the facts. Thanks for being patient.

Just one other question - if a battery is rated at 130 AH @ 20 hour it means that it will supply power of 6.5 amps per hour for 20 hours - right! So if I am drawing just 2.5amps per hour, what happens to the other 4 amps?
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 21:07

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 21:07
Mark,
are your numbers correct ??

"I have a 130 AGM in my CT and it runs lights and Waeco for 3 - 4 days no problems. Have not gone away for longer period than that, but the previous 100 amp hour wet cell used to die at day 3"

(130ah AGM battery) 118ah usable power, divided by ~4ah = 33 'continuous' hours

(100ah wet cell battery) 50ah usable power, divided by ~4ah = 12.5 'continuous' hours

"Mathematically" the numbers indicate the 130ah AGM would last almost 3 times longer than a 100ah wet cell battery ??
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Reply By: Mark Taylor - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:54

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 15:54
Well.. the other amp hours don't dissappear.

What happens is simply this... you will get a longer period of power. The 120 AH at the 10 hour rate etc is just a standard for batteries to measured to. So you can compare apples with apples.

Sort of like 1 carton of light beer will last the average Joe for 14 days. But for me it will last for 3 months 'cause I don't drink as much beer.

With you, your battery will last longer because you are not drawing as much power.

i guess in short, the answer is the other AMP Hours are just waiting for you to use them.

Hope this is not too confusing.

Let me know if I've made it worse :-)

Cheers

Mark T
AnswerID: 229282

Follow Up By: pprass - Saturday, Mar 24, 2007 at 10:14

Saturday, Mar 24, 2007 at 10:14
Thanks Mark and all others who have helped me to understand.

Peter
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