Thinking about fishing in NT, think again

You sure its not April the 1st yet?

You are correct wrt to knowledge of this in the South/ and the reason it goes unnoticed is due to it not affecting people in places like Sydney, Melbourne etc. After residing in Gove for several years and experiencing this first hand it isn't all that surprising. I guess the question to ask is where will it end?????
Why can we all just get over the past and move on and be happy Australians working as one great country...........Nice dream?

As of this morning they were saying it wont affect the rest of the Territory. Until when they haven't said. It will go back to the way it was before, just cost money where it was free. We have to pay to go the beach now, so it's a matter of time before we have to pay to fish.

Willem

The act of parliament which has opened the way for this is the Land Rights Legislation that was enacted in 1975 by the Federal Liberal Government of Malcolm Fraser.

I do not believe the the government meant it to be interpretted the way it has. Unfortunately the only means of changing this is for a successful appeal to be made to the High Court or for the Federal Goverment to enact legislation.

The Full Court in its decision has showed scant regard for the majority of residents of Australia and for common law.

I hope that the evential outcome will satisfy all concerned.

Tjilpi

Yes Tjilpi

I am aware of the 1975 Land Rights Act and all of the ramifications that came with it. It started when the Guriniji Mob walked off the station at Wave Hill in 1966 in search of better treatment and wages. In the early days there weren't many issues with Land Rights as I was able to get a blanket permit for areas to tour through. As time progressed the Land Rights issues became more political with political activists taking on different roles with ion the Land Councils. The claim for inter tidal waters has been going for many years.

Political decisions in this country as far as race goes has been flawed since Cook landed here. While I have empathy for the aboriginal people I hate the devisiveness that exists within our community.

Malcolm Fraser has a lot to answer for. He was the outspoken one of Eminent Persons who installed Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe to power. The Mabo decision of 1992 virtually abidacated the rights of freedom of movement for all other citizens of Australia based on race.

I could go on.....lol

Cheers and thanks for your input

Willem

In the past the rights of Aboriginals were disregarded. Until 1967 they were not citizens of Australia and had no rights.

Now there is a perceptions that things have gone too far the other way. That the rights of Aboriginals are being considered with disregard for the rights of other Australians.

Despite all the land and all the changes since 1967 they continue to live in third world standards in one of the richest countries in the world.

Tjilpi

Tjilpi

Lets not go down the road of apportioning blame for the woes of the aboriginal people. They are as much to blame for their own situation as anybody else.

History is repeated and no one learns from it. 3rd world standards are a direct result of people who cannot assimilate to modern day standards. They want to live a tribal life in the past but with the modern conveniences, but they refuse to contribute to society at large claiming unfair treatment in the past and present. Funding for their well being has to come from the general taxpaying public. My insight is that their plight is instigated even more so by modern socio law scholars who are feathering their own nests to the disadvantage of the indigenous peoples.

Anyway mate. Enough said. I lived in the Territory for 20 years experiencing the whole gamut of life in the tropics.

Cheers

Willem

I am not trying to apportion blame. I was just stating the facts as they are. I do not disagree with you.

There is a saying I like "FIX THE PROBLEM NOT THE BLAME".

Tjilpi

I second that!

So smart people go out and break stupid laws.

Smart person gets caught by stupid official.

stupid official fines smart person a stupid amount of money.

Stupid amount of money goes into a kitty to fund stupid official.

Stupid official now has a stupid amount of money to make more stupid laws.

So is this a smart idea or a stupid idea.

Steve.

Steve

As you may know, the NT Parks and Wildlife Act(unless changed in recent years) used to state that anyone breaking blade of grass within a park was liable for prosecution. When this question was asked of a legal person in Darwin the answer was " Of course this would never be enacted as common sense would prevail".....Oh yeah???????

The Law is an ass (to answer your question re smart or stupid)

Cheers

To Member Steve,

Geez Steve, you're working on two assumptions:

Assumption 1. That I will get caught.

Assumption 2. That I would pay the fine.

I can't guarantee the first but I can guarantee the second. The only way to enforce fines for piddling, stupid things like this is to do something like take your MVDL from you. And currently that can only be done in the jurisdiction in which you have obtained the said licence. Mate, I just don't pay these silly fines. I don't register dogs, I don't leave my gun somewhere when I go into National Parks. I am a really bad dude. Hell! I don't even pay parking fines!!!! You might say I'm a hardened criminal and various Governments - Federal, State and Local - have made me this way.

Cheers,

Russ.

I never assume anything.

Personally I couldn't give a rats arse weather you pay your fines or register your dog.

What I care about is idiots who go out of there way to break these stupid laws, They may think there tuff and smart by doing this, but all there doing is enabling these law makers.

These law makers don't want us there in the first place, they love people breaking the laws, because it gives them more reasons to close more places.

The funny thing is that the first people to jump up and down about the closures, are the people that enabled them to close it in the first place.

Just for tour information Federally run parks have officers that do have the right to take your info, All National Parks, Nature Parks and Nature Reserves in Australia are protected by the Environmental Protection and Bio-diversity act of 2001.

These laws were put in place to protect the parks and there inhabitants from these idiots, so the rest of us can enjoy them.

Steve.

Steve T

Well said.

Without laws we have anarchy.

Laws are there in an attempt to protect the stupid from themselves and to protect the rest of us from them.

Tjilpi

You guys aren't living undr the mistaken idea that as part of a democracy, we the voters, are empowered at voting time and can change these things? Politicians understand at any given time they will lose the vote of a few ratbags like me when they allow laws like this one to pass. They don't care. It's a big juggling game and in the end they know that apathy will reign supreme.

They do, however, sit up and listen when something starts to get them bad press. If I refuse to pay fines for fishing in the inter-tidal zone and elect, say, to go to jail instead, then that often as not will get the kind of press that makes dumbass politicians take notice. Bad laws deserve to be treated contemptuously.

And for the record, I don't go "out of my way" to do these things. I try to live as normal a life as possible. It's just that idiots keep putting obstacles in the way. Unnecessary obstacles.

It's not anarchy, it's purely standing up for what I believe in. God help us all if everyone was subservient and took what was dished up to them.

Yeah only takes a few to spoil it for every one.

For every one interested about this thread go to.

www.ntnews.news.com.au

Cheers Steve.

Russell

My point is in your 3rd paragraph, the law makers I am talking about are park rangers.

The more people they see break the rules- laws the more they impose them, so if you go out and break these laws all you are doing is helping them make laws you don't want.

Cheers Steve.

Russel H

I tend to want to agree with you

Cheers

I was hoping that no-one was going to come back with this hoary old chestnut, but you did. I can only respond with an example.

Whatever happened in the past - is in the past. You, me, everyone else that pays taxes now (and had nothing to do with any perceived wrongs of the past) has paid an absolute fortune trying to correct these perceived wrongdoings. Tipping money at it hasn't solved the "problem", nor will giving aborigines exclusivity over land.

My wife works for an Aboriginal Corporation. This organisation has set up countless endeavours designed to give these people a real "leg-up" in business, training and life in general. I can tell you that every single attempt bar one has failed. Why?

Because the very people they are designed to help, won't help themselves. The problems range from petty pilfering, to outright stealing, to misuse or mistreatment of property (their property) to rorting allowances and payments, to innapropriate use of mobile phones and vehicles, to sabotaging the programs. (Please do not reply by saying that you get this in the rest of society - we are talking about total failure of programs resulting in withdrawal of funding, and malpractice at rates dozens of time higher than in general society). They have abysmal attendance habits and use "cultural" reasons as excuses for almost everything they do wrong. You talk to the more respected of these people (who sit back helplessly watching these projects fail) and they will tell you that the so-called cultural reasons are nothing but rubbish.

I think you have to be very careful here. It is not possible for these people to go "back" to a traditional way of life, so they have to come up with a blend that allows them to retain as much of their culture as possible, and yet still progress into the 21st century. This is no different to any other race or nation of people that has been displaced by another race or nation of people over history. This is not going to happen by disenfrachising the very people whose taxes prop up the gains these people are supposedly making.

I agree that the right to use the land to continue cultural practices is fair and important, but to give small groups or individuals unfettered rights to disproportionately HUGE tracts of land or sea is wrong. In WA, occupiers of crown land, such as sheep or cattle sation owners or mining tenement operators, are not allowed to deny the public the right to access the coast. Nor are they allowed to charge for such access. Even privately held lands are subject to certain restrictions over where the property extends to beaches. So why then should any race have the ability to control access? By all means make it clear to the public at large that to disturb these people in the practice of their culturals beliefs must not happen, but at the same time, aboriginal people must respect the European penchant for exploring, fishing, travelling and adventure.

This recent ruling is wrong. It is wrong for a host of reasons and it certainly is not Karma.

That was my point, but said more simply.

Ross

Two wrongs don't make a right is an old but true saying.

How Aboriginal people were treated in the past was a disgrace.

That can be rectified with respect rather than hand-outs that make them dependent on the welfare system. That welfare system keeps them in poverty.

Respect must also be given to other Australians who want to travel and fish and enjoy this beautiful country.

There are a lot of Aboriginal people who have succeeded. They have succeeded in sport, Academia and business. They are quiet achievers who do not get mentioned in the media. Negative stereotypes sell and the media focuses on the negative.

Tjilpi