Cost of raising money for charity?
Submitted: Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:14
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True Blue
A question to ponder? Not hypothetical, this situation is current.
Club X owns several trailers which occasionally travel to certain collection points and gathers recyclable cans to be cashed in and the funds onforwarded to a
well known charity.
Members tow these trailers for no reward (actually costs us) other than the pride of a job
well done.
Whilst travelling along a gravel road, certainly not speeding (I witnessed this) when
car oversteers, trailer jack knifes and part of the trailer flips up and causes damage to the towing vehicle and that such damage will definitely require the
services of a panel beater ($500+). Trailer coupling and axle damaged.
Club refuses to cover the cost of fixing the towing vehicle as
well as asking the towing vehicle's owner to pay for the trailer damage.
It was definitely the added weight of the trailer (no brakes fitted) that pushed the vehicle to the point of oversteer and I appreciate it that you may suggest that perhaps the driver should have been more cautious. Nevertheless, do you think that as the member, who certainly had his heart in the right place to help raise money for the charity in the first place, should be looked after in this instance with the club paying for repairs to his vehicle.
My thought were that the money required to repair both should come from the funds gained from the cashed in cans. One of the reasons I would suggest this is because the members who took part in this collection know the circumstances and I am sure that if the club does not do the right thing (in my opinion) by the member then there is every chance this chartity drive will collapse and that will certainly cost the chartity far more than we are talking about here.
What do you think? This by the way is a club certainly not strapped for cash.
True Blue.
Reply By: True Blue - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:27
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:27
I apologise for the spelling errors.
True B.
AnswerID:
229904
Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:27
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:27
Hi True Blue, seems to be a difference between a legal obligation and a moral one. Some of these charitable organisations are more than happy to spend other peoples money but when it comes to their own dollars ?????
Need a hell of a lot of cans to over load a trailer though......
Lionel.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: True Blue - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:29
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:29
The car club owns the trailers, not the charity:)
regards True B.
FollowupID:
490677
Reply By: DIO - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:03
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:03
True Blue, gladly no one was injured in this incident. I guess that when you get involved in charity/volunteer type activity and there are no specific rules or agreements regarding operating conditions etc then if/when something goes wrong sometimes there is no recourse available. Without seeming to be judgemental, was the driver of the vehicle at fault, an error of judgement resulting in series of actions causing damage. Regardless of that, I don't seen anywhere mention of insurance. Why not? Does the agrieved party have insurance? If so, what's wrong with making a claim?
Depending on the purpose of the club, it's structure, (is it Incorporated) there amy be limitations as to exactly what it's funds can be used for. I cna't imagine a situation where club funds might be used to pay for repairs to a vehicle used by a member acting voluntarily. Surely the club would have indemnified itself against such claims.
Volunteers make a hughe contribution to the
well being of many within our communities. They often go without recognition or thanks. I say, thanks guys.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: True Blue - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:47
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:47
I don't believe the driver was at fault here. In hindsight a slower entry into the corner probably would have avoided the oversteer but it was a particularly nasty corner with no marked warnings and was off camber.
I am certain that the driver (not me by the way) has full comp. insurance on his car.
Yes, the club is Incorporated and has public liability insurance and has many thousands of dollars in the kitty.
The club is definitely going to be a few members less by the time this settles.
The club is very PR conscious and is all too ready to accept the kudos when handing over funds to the charity but little, if any, mention is made of the actual members who spent time and effort doing the actual work. Sure we have fun but when your vehicle is damaged in the process is it fair that the member should have to make a claim on his insurance?
Cheers, True B.
FollowupID:
490706
Reply By: Willem - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:07
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:07
Hmmm...I am definitely no lawyer but
A. Is the Car Club insured for Public Liability
B. Is the driver insured?
C. Was the trailer insured?
$500 isnt worth making a claim as your excess will be probably just that.
The trouble with doing volunteer work for non profit organisations or charities is that you normally do so at your own risk.
I am sure there must be avenues available to source good legal advice and get a positive outcome.
Otherwise driver must bear his/her own cost and tell the club to get nicked for their damage
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: True Blue - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:50
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:50
Hello Willem.
I believe the club is insured for Pub.Liability and that the driver also had full comp. insurance. I am unaware of whether the trailers were insured.
I am not sure if the driver intends on seeking legal advice, but I would.
Cheers, True B.
FollowupID:
490707
Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:19
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:19
take the matter further?....for $500..or $5000.....when one is doing charity work to highten said clubs awareness in the community...i think the person who suffered the damage is out of his mind if he presses ahead with trying to get compensation from the club...if he is so concerned about consequential damage he should not have been part of the activities....and further more, his conduct may
well be seen as unfitting to the club, and in my opinion if this is the case is not worthy of being a member of said club!
he was after all Driving with Undue Care!
lets look at it another way...if he was speeding would he expect the club to
fork out for his fine?.....or if he had hired the trailer would he expect compensation from hirer for his own negligence?....
FollowupID:
490739
Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:27
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:27
Quote
"I don't believe the driver was at fault here. In hindsight a slower entry into the corner probably would have avoided the oversteer but it was a particularly nasty corner with no marked warnings and was off camber."
well who was at fault...the road, speed, the camber of the road, traffic authority (no warning signs) etc etc etc...certainly not the driver?...you've got to be kidding...you've said a slower speed would have avoided oversteer...and as for the rest of the execuses, tell him to go sue the those who failed to mark said corner with adequate signage and or those who laid the road.....tell your mate to cool it!
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:28
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:28
oh and it was a gravel road.....Driver Error!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 11:53
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 11:53
Hey Member No 1......you finished now???......lol
And i do agree with most of what you said..........Cheers .......Dave
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:24
Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:24
and what dont you agree with then Borgy?
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 20:56
Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 20:56
"oh and it was a gravel road.....Driver Error!!!!!!!"
"and in my opinion if this is the case is not worthy of being a member of said club!"
Why does a dirt road automatically make it driver error????
Just thought your comments on the not worthy of being a member were a little harsh.....
Like i said , i do agree with most of what you said .....dont get ya knickers in a knot just cause someone doesnt agree with ALL of your comments !!
Cheers .......Dave
FollowupID:
491164
Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Mar 29, 2007 at 07:22
Thursday, Mar 29, 2007 at 07:22
If the member takes it further ie legal action etc etc or even seeks legal advice as to whether or not the club could be forced to pay up, then the said person is not worthy...my way of thinking anyhow...after all he was on a mission for charity!
and no i aint getting my knickers in a knot just wondered what it was you didnt agree with
FollowupID:
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Reply By: pt_nomad - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 23:40
Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 23:40
I'd say the vehicle owner covers the vehicle and the club covers the trailer.
The club has a moral responsibility not to screw a member over the trailer.
It is an unfortunate cost of participation. Similar to being on a club trip and recoveriong another vehicle, now one is going to cover your costs if you incurr any damage ( unless you know its apossiblity and have a prior agreement).
I dont think club insurances are intened to cover such scinario's. They usually cover com. member liablity and pulic liablity and to avail youself to such polocies it would probably need to have been a published club trip (assuming your talking about a tcis insured 4wd club).
my 2 bobs
Paul.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 12:46
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 12:46
"I'd say the vehicle owner covers the vehicle and the club covers the trailer."
That sounds fair.
Cheers
FollowupID:
490804
Reply By: Member - Battlecat (WA) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 02:09
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 02:09
Hey got another example to show you just how careful you have to be. Say you go along to a charity golf day and as such you don't pay the green fees - you tee off and hit another golfer with your ball - course insurance doesn't cover you as you didn't pay the green fees - you lose 1mil. Heaps of examples of this kind of stuff where things can go really wrong.
It is such a shame that this is the way that things are going ATM.
Cheers
AnswerID:
229949
Reply By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 08:55
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 08:55
I had been involved in an accident towing a boat trailer (which wasn't my fault) and had to deal with who covers the damages.
I have told that (in Qld at least) the vehicle towing the trailer must have adequate coverage for towing said trailer. It doesn't matter who has coverage on the trailer (in this case a government owned item) at the time, as the vehicle's insurance must provide for this coverage when towing. Incidently, most vehicle insurance coverage, whilst providing for towing a trailer, will not cover for contents of such a trailer (the boat is considered contents).... this is ok until someone decides to hit said objects and damages the boat predominantly!
Back on track, No matter who owns/supplies said trailer, your insurance must cover towing it, at your risk......
Andrew
AnswerID:
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Reply By: True Blue - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 09:27
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 09:27
Thanks for all the input people. Much appreciated.
True Blue :)
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 13:04
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 13:04
so where do you now stand...for or against?
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Reply By: Kevern - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 13:50
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 13:50
I like the comment I don't believe the drive was a fault, who's fault is it then? It has to be the drivers fault. This is the problem with people today always trying to find someone to blame for their mistakes. It wasn't my fault the road was wet, my tyres where bald, I was going to fast, there should of been a
warning sign. If you are driving the vehicle take responsibility for the actions you take whilst driving.
AnswerID:
230022
Reply By: True Blue - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 14:00
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 14:00
Member No.1. Unlike you, I don't believe that every accident that happens on a dirt road is driver error.
Also, if you consider him worthy of incurring the wraith of his fellow members at the same time considering him unworthy of
membership in the club how do you feel about the other 300 members of the club who don't get off their a@#e to do any work for neither club nor charity. This person that I am dealing with here is probably one of the quietest, kindest gentleman I have met. Here he is having a go raising money for charity at his own expense and effort and you consider him a piece of crap. The trip involved here covered some 800+ ks and 2 overnight stops.
It is a considerable effort. He made an error of judgement on one of the thousands of bends that he was required to negotiate.
Mind you, I think I know now why it is so difficult to get members to help on these sort of trips because they probably realise this bleep can happen and don't want to get involved.
I stand by my comments in the original thread.
In any case, thanks for the input.
True Blue.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:24
Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:24
"how do you feel about the other 300 members of the club who don't get off their a@#e"...being secretary of a club I know what you mean..it happens in all clubs!, not just yours...but what has this to do with driving with undue care?
"you consider him a piece of crap"..did i say that?...keep to the issue of driving with undue care!
you have already indicated that he was at fault in a previous comment, and now you confirm it again....."He made an error of judgement"..see even you believe he was driving with undue care!...
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 20:55
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 20:55
As a man who has done more than his fair share of vollunteer work (or go to jail for life LOL) I have seen enough examples of vollunteers in all fields of vollunteering get stung by their "employer" for all sorts of things. Never ceases to amaze me the pranks some of these "charities" get up to. I personally would think that if only $500 is at stake here the club should make an exgratia payment for the repairs.
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Follow Up By: True Blue - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:58
Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:58
Thank you for that Mr.Fawlty.
True Blue :)
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