E85 fuel ??
Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 13:18
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Member - Colin (WA)
Hi all,
I watched the Chicago Motor Show on Fox last night and they where talking about E 85 . I had never heard of this fuel before, It is made from 85% ethanol & 15% gasoline Is cheaper than petrol but you get about 20% less mileage/ litre. The cars are factory set up to run on ethanol and in the states now there are over 6 million on the road already. The big plus is it is another renewable fuel source.
They showed the new Nissan pathfinder same as ours but it is powered by a 5.6L V8 (What The!!) and I thought the 200kw V6 was impressive.
Col
Reply By: porl - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 13:51
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 13:51
But it's pushed the price of corn up so hi that the poorest mexicans can't afford their tortillas and burritoes or whatever and is causing socio economic disaster.
The best biofueld I have heard of yet is the bacteria that grows from sunlight.
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Reply By: disco driver - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 14:15
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 14:15
The only reason it's cheaper than petrol in the great US of A is because it is subsidised by the US Govt, so much so that
farm lands formerly used to produce food crops have been planted to corn for ethanol. I think it's called "Making a quick buck".
In terms of energy input and output, I believe that it has been reported that to produce ethanol in the US, it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than the ethanol actually supplies.
If this is true, ethanol can hardly be called a "renewable" resource.
Any Comments, Pro or Con?
Disco
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 21:58
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 21:58
"In terms of energy input and output, I believe that it has been reported that to produce ethanol in the US, it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than the ethanol actually supplies. "
while I dont believe this to be the case, even if it was it can still be called renewable. If you grew 100 tonnes of corn (or canola etc) and 50 tonnes of it went into converting the other 50 tonnes into a form (ethanol) able to be used in a car, why is this not renewable in the broad sense?
You cant drive a car on sunshine without converting it into electricity (which costs some of the energy in "efficiency") or petrol without using energy to crack and produce it from crude oil, electricity from yellowcake, biodiesel from canola etc.
It is only a designation of the "efficiency" of the process and NOTHING in our laws of physics as we know it is 100% efficient.
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Reply By: Member - Rotord - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 17:35
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 17:35
Diverting Brazil's vast sugar crop to ethanol for local consumption seems to make sense . I have a big ethical problem with export basic food producers diverting food production into fuel for the haves . I would have an even bigger ethical problem burning ethanol in my car thinking that it could have been food in the mouth of a starving person .
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 22:06
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 22:06
swings and roundabouts really isnt it?
What about
Mobil, Chevron,
Shell, Elf, Agip etc and Nigerian oil? Chinese products and Tibet etc. Most Asian countries and their treatment of various religous, racial and political minorities.
Point being you can find an ethical problem with just about any commodity used in our western society.
Try to name a commodity that has no ethical baggage, I think you'd be hard pressed to find one.
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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 07:30
Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 07:30
The Front page of the local rag had an interesting story on using the ord valley to produce ethanol in large preportions. This would be a good thing (IMO) as there is a ready market and ethanol is easier to transport and keep etc than fresh produce.
I found the best part was that it would be 50c/litre locally, and 56c to the capital cities.......funily enough fuel here is a bit more than 6c/litre dearer than the cities due to transport costs.
Cheers Andrew
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Follow Up By: Member - Colin (WA) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 11:59
Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 11:59
Hi Andrew
I didn't mean to start a political post as I believe we have little to no impact on what other countries decide to do.
We have vast areas to grow these types of crops which would make us less reliant on other oil producing countries. The sugar cane growers would surely be keen to add ethanol production to their list of products (if they already don't) . I would think the crops would not have to be sprayed as often for pest as it would not be for consumption.
Between LPG,Bio diesel & E85/ethanol we would be self sufficient in fuels maybe even an exporter of them .
Transport costs are always a mystery how they are worked out LPG 50c in
Perth 70/80c / litre up north and its made in the north west ?
cheers
Col
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 11:06
Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 11:06
I think we are at about 92 c for lpg at the moment. the gas may be produced in the NW, but I have heard the local Coles stocks some produce that is produced in the ord valley, transported to
Perth to market, then purchased by coles and transported back....a watermelon can be grown 10 km from the
shop, travel 7500km, to end up 10 k from where it is grown....seems pretty clever! The gas probably travels a similar path.
Cheers Andrew
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