Senior First Aid Do you know what to do?

Submitted: Monday, May 07, 2007 at 20:30
ThreadID: 45195 Views:3299 Replies:17 FollowUps:15
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Simple question do you have a senior first aid certificate?

Do you think you need one?

Some people have been contemplating trip into really remote Australia, Nothing wrong with that in fact I encourage it, I would also encourage that you have a Senior First Aid certificate as well especially those with young ones.
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Reply By: Peter - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 21:32

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 21:32
Yes and yes
AnswerID: 238472

Reply By: Member- Rox (WA) - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 21:37

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 21:37
I've got 1 and recomend it. I also recomend good comms, HF or SAT & every member (kids included) knowing how to use them.
AnswerID: 238475

Reply By: Stu050 - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:07

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:07
I believe that a senior first aid certificate should be a pre-requisite for a driver's lic.
AnswerID: 238483

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:22

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:22
it is the case in some European countries since ages ...
I made a licence in Europe over 35 years ago and it was a prerequisit ...
but we all know .. things take a bit longer to reach Australia .. lol ..
have fun
FollowupID: 499577

Reply By: John R (SA) - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:17

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:17
Have it, and it's one of the most conscientious renewals I adhere to.

One thing I was forced to ponder the other day - how do you actually tell if someone's breathing? Particularly if they're unconscious and in an awkward position (sitting in a vehicle) with noise around?

I've never had to assess that until doing some scenarios the other day.
Fortunately in the process of throttling the bloke to find out if he had a pulse, he choked.

But have you noticed how shallow some people's breathing is?
AnswerID: 238486

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:54

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:54
Latest technique is:

Ensure clear airway, ear over mouth and nose, hand on lower ribcage.

If you don't get two distinct breaths within ten seconds call for help.

Two quick breaths and listen again.

If not go straight into CPR. 2 quick breaths followed by 30 rapid chest compressions of the lower half of the ribcage to one third of chest thickness.

Do not check pulse and do not stop until medical aid arrives, defibrillator arrives or physical exhaustion sets in.

Watch their signs, if they spark up again, you'll see it.

Main priority is to get blood pressure back and circulating a.s.a.p.
FollowupID: 499587

Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 00:32

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 00:32
One way that is moderately successful is to wet the back of your hand and hold it close to the nose or mouth and feel for exhaled air. The side of your cheek is also very sensitive to cool. Wet it and hold close to the nose or mouth.

This is not a garantee but it is a system that is more likely than most to be successful.

If there is any doubt commence CPR. Even if you are not sure about the numbers what you do will be better than nothing.

I carry a photo of my success. He is walking and talking and getting bigger every day. What I did would not have passed the exam but it kept him alive.

That's not an excuse not to get trained. I am and was trained at the time. The training kept me calm and gave me the confidence to have a go.

FollowupID: 499610

Follow Up By: DaveNQ - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 07:15

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 07:15
Squeeze both trapezius muscles on each side of the neck. If they move/moan/grimace or react in any way......they are breathing. You then have to check how adequate it is. If on an adult you do not get 2 breaths in a ten second period.......commence EAR. And if need be CPR.
FollowupID: 499621

Follow Up By: Member - Bentaxle - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 09:35

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 09:35
Hold a mirror under nostrils or over mouth. If breathing mist will show on mirrior faint misting = faint brathing
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FollowupID: 499634

Follow Up By: John R (SA) - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 13:52

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 13:52
Do you carry a mirror in your pocket Bentaxle? I'm not having a go at you mate, and it's something I too considered as a viable indicator until recently.

Fortunately not a real emergency, but running through some scenarios as part of CFS training. There is the real possibility we could be on scene before ambos (in this area where there's no full time crew, or constant volunteer cover), so when I jumped in the car and had to assess the driver, several things stay with me:

It's relatively easy to assess consciousness & circulation, but breathing I found much harder to ascertain. And I reckon once I'm presented with someone who's unconcsious, there's no way I'm leaving that person until someone more qualified arrives, or their condition is stable.

FollowupID: 499656

Follow Up By: timglobal - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 19:30

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 19:30
Mirror is a good suggestion and whilst I don't have one in my pocket [insert breaking too many joke here!]... if you're in a car accident, you can be sure of at least three that are now surplus to requirement (rear-view and two wing ones, for those slow on the uptake :) )


FollowupID: 499695

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 23:11

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 23:11
The official line is if they do not respond to voice or a firm squeeze of the shoulders they are unconscious. If after checking airway and tilting head back to open airway you can not detect 2 noticable (ie: healthy) breaths in a 10 second period by listening, feeling and watching the lower rib area they are not breathing. No tools required. If you cannot detect breathing this way, they are not breathing. Give them 2 quick breaths by mouth to mouth and a re-examine the casualty. If still no response go straight into CPR. Do not check for pulse. Do not stop.
FollowupID: 499766

Reply By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:45

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:45
Sure do. Even if you are trained, I'd strongly advise anyone who hasn't done a refresher in the past year or so to do so as the procedures have changed significantly.
AnswerID: 238495

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:56

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:56
Hey V8

IN the N.T you now do a senior First aid Course this takes 3 days.

In 3 years you do a 1 day refresher.

As of last year you then do another 3 day course, then 3 years 1 day and then 3 years 3 day's and so on.

Cheers Steve.
FollowupID: 499588

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:07

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:07
Two days training in WA for Senior First Aid with St John's.

I trained with St John's to Ambulance Officer Class 1 level in Karratha and New Norcia years ago, all changed these days. Scarily so in fact.
FollowupID: 499593

Follow Up By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:53

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:53
I have kept mine up to date for the past 25 years (1 day refresher every 3 years)and yes it has changed significantly but I am finding it is changing to be more simple every time......... My last refresher was in August.
As for mouth to mouth it is very interesting doing it 50 metres away from a boat, in 1 metre swell and towing the person back to the boat whilst breathing for them. Haven't done it for real but that was what the conditions were for my training.
FollowupID: 499602

Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:50

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 22:50
Most important - we should all keep ours refreshed as it is easy to forget when the skills are not called on. Even simple things like holding someone's head correctly so they can breathe while unconscious can mean the difference between life and death. I agree it should be part of the drivers licence. Many workplaces will cover your costs for this training.

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AnswerID: 238499

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:37

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 23:37

You would be surprised, A while after my course I attended a serious accident.

2 4wds head on in Litchfield N.P, there were 6 people involved, I was the first person there that had a First aid Certificate of any kind.

After I had assessed the scene, I set about First Aid and there were many on lookers, after about 5 min a guy asked if I need help (he had turned up after me ) I asked if he new fist aid.

He told me he was a Paramedic I then said you can take over, his reply was NO it's your scene your doing fine what would you like me to do.

After the Ambulance arrived I spoke to this man and asked him why he left me in charge, his answer was it was under control and there was no time for politics.

He then asked me for my phone # and 2 weeks latter I got a call from ST Johns asking me to come and pick up the supplies that had been used from my First Aid Kit.

There were 4 French backpackers with minor cuts and abrasions 2 Ozzie's with no problems 1 woman that was 5 months pregnant and her husband that when into shock.

All went well at the end.

Cheers Steve

FollowupID: 499601

Reply By: Member - steve F (WA) - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 00:16

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 00:16
same ,same

4 yrs ago a car and caravan jacknifed behind us just after sandfire rd house w.a , seen the whole thing through revision mirror and a mate was behind them ( very scary )
out of 8 people that stopped i was only 1 with first aid , think i done ok, until a nurse from panawonika turned up ( very lucky ) she took control while we helped , took 4 - 5 hrs for flying doctor ( from derby ) and about 6 hrs for plice to come from pt headland, spent 8.5 hrs on the side of the road in the heat.
ambulance officer radio'd to 80 mile beach and told them we were coming from accident and would need to plug into power to charge up batteries or a generator area, got no such help ( unpowered site and was not allowed to run a geni , honda eu 10 quiet as a mouse) never been back there and will never call in there again.

steve F( w.a )
AnswerID: 238516

Reply By: Member - bushfix - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 07:19

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 07:19
yes and yes, Advanced First Aid.

i concur with your thougths Steve. There has been numerous posts lately about people asking for prep on trips coming up, but very rarely do you see anyone mention First Aid. That of course does not mean they have not thought of it, but it is valuable info for anyone reading the thread.
AnswerID: 238519

Reply By: Robin - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 08:04

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 08:04
Hi Steve

I guess all training is better than nothing but I never felt that course was particularly effective.

Its whole basis was about doing little , not making things worse and getting help as fast as you can - good aims with civilization nearby but not so effective outback.

Used to be more bush specific training once, maybe there still is?
, and the old reliable link below is also worth taking and reading before.

Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 238523

Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 12:32

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 12:32
I agree Robin, there certainly is a difference between first aid and medical aid. Battle field type - start the breathing, stop the bleeding and ship them out should almost be mandatory for every one getting a licence but then seeing how some people drive perhaps I would not be that keen to have them work on me :-))
FollowupID: 499651

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 08:35

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 08:35
Yep got them as well Senior First Aid and Resuc also have a fairly good first aid lit on board when out travelling. I also have my first aid book on board as well bit in depth but at least I can check if not real sure and do the wrong thing.

Mind you its all well and fine to have these skills and to keep them up BUt to be honest the issue is for YOU to remain calm when confronted with an incident all of a sudden, cause it can be rather stressful and each of us will deal with that in different ways.

I have a question to toss in .................... who will give mouth to mouth to a stranger? No right or wrong as its YOUR decision.

AnswerID: 238531

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 09:25

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 09:25
Hey Brian

All our first aid kits have those protective masks.

Cheers Steve.
FollowupID: 499633

Follow Up By: DaveNQ - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 19:25

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 19:25
Go mouth to nose. Done properly with good head tilt you will still get adequate inflation.

FollowupID: 499694

Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 10:25

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 10:25
I'd like to think a stranger would give me mouth to mouth if I needed it - even without a mask...
AnswerID: 238540

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:03

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:03
Have had mine for years, it is a mandatory part of being a CFS volunteer,
so CFS pay for it, just had our 3 year refresher, 2 nights of 3 hrs.
Have changed all the CPR now too, so if your not up to date, it will pay you to get to it.
Hope I never have to use it!

Cheers Pesty
AnswerID: 238570

Reply By: greydemon - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:53

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:53
I took my Senior First Aid about 3 months ago and followed up a couple of weeks ago with the Remote Areas First Aid. Highly recommended.

The basis of the Senior First Aid is that an ambulance will be with you within 20 minutes, with the Remote Areas course the assumption is that you are NOT going to get any help in the near future. It covers transportation of back injured patients, taking ongoing observations, and many other practical aspects. Some I probably will never need - like the dimensions of an airstrip for the Flying Doctor, but you never know!

As for a face mask, I carry one on my key ring as well as in my first aid kit, you never know when you might need it just walking around doing your shopping.

In my first aid kit I have the packet of rubber gloves and the face masks taped inside the lid as they are the items you will probably need instantly, anything else can usually wait long enough for you to rummage around and find.

AnswerID: 238582

Reply By: jammin - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:55

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 14:55
Just to add to all said, I have completed my Senior First Aid and they hold a course for Remote First Aid which takes into account the Senior first aid but goes a lot further and teaches you to handle a lot of situations in remote situations where help is not a short distnace away. Maybe a few other places do this.
AnswerID: 238583

Reply By: Steve63 - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 16:50

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 16:50
We tend to travel alone so both the wife and I have a senior first aid certificate. Originally I had one through work. But on reflection if anyone was going to need first aid it would probably be me! So the wife was sent off to get one as well.

Yes you do need one. At least you will have some idea.

The face masks with the valve are a good idea if you have been trained to use one. I find it much easier to use a mask in a real situation. Probaly because just about all my training has involved use of a mask rather than without and all the resuses I have done have been with a mask. Ours lives in the kit so it is handy at all times.

AnswerID: 238600

Reply By: Member - Raymond S (QLD) - Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 17:11

Tuesday, May 08, 2007 at 17:11
It's excellent that so many are keen to have their first aid up to date.
As for first aid kits keep them simple pads, bandages, slings, non stick dressings & forget about all the fancy creams.
The main aim as a first aider is safety to self & patient first & foremost & to maintain Airway, breathing, circulation & control haemorrhage & protect them from the elements. If this is all u do this will give your patient the best chance of survival.
Remember when doing mouth to mouth to turn your head to the side in case the patient decides to have a projectile vomit, it is not the nicest thing to do give mouth to mouth. I aslo agree that it should be a prerequsit to getting a drivers licence & prior to renewal of a licence. Yes I have 30 yrs experience in this field between country & city.
AnswerID: 238603

Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, May 09, 2007 at 06:41

Wednesday, May 09, 2007 at 06:41

Yes I have one and I do the refresher. I have had one for 40 years.

Yes the wife has one.

Essential knowledge that everyone should have.

Life's great and it just keeps getting better

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AnswerID: 238745

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