120amp Fullriver and Honda eu10
Submitted: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 07:45
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JohnN
Hi all
I am wondering how quickly you could safely charge a battery of this type and thus what a good suggestion for a charger to be powered from a honda would be?
Obviously I would like to recharge asap but dont want to affect battery life adversely.
Would 5amp / 10amp / 15amp / 20amp be OK?
Advice appreciated.
cheers
John
Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 08:04
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 08:04
I use a 15amp 3 stage charger (see Derek's website...ABR....he sells a 25amp version that looks identical). I have 2 of these chargers mounted permanently; one in the camper, the other in the back of the Patrol. The Patrol's 2nd battery is a Fullriver 120a/h and the camper has 2 x 105a/h Supercharge Gold Series.
My Fullriver is being constantly charged during the week while it sits waiting it's next call to duty on the weekend. When I am driving, it is being charged by an Arrid Twin Charger.
There is no direct/easy answer to your question about how long it will take to recharge your battery. It depends on how low the battery is before you hit it with the charger. However, being an AGM battery, you can rest assured that they accept a very high charge-rate; so a 25a/h charger would be excellent and will not cause your AGM any harm.
Cheers
Roachie
AnswerID:
241509
Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 08:10
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 08:10
Hi John
I would use 25amp at least - the charger chosen depends on a bit more critera
like cost conveinence etc.
You probably know that there are several automatic chargers in this range designed for permanent connection however with a gennie you are likely to be around and in a position to monitor it and hence a cheap power supply will be a cost effective solution which will not damage you battery in any way .
E.G. Jaycar MP 3078 20amp version $99 and also have 40amp version which would be better even ($179).
Note - fact that power supply can deliver peak 40amp doesn't mean that your battery will be charged at 40 amps all time , which would be to much for more than an hour or so.
Robin Miller
AnswerID:
241513
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 20:18
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 20:18
The 3078 is only a 13.8 V power supply. A three stage battery charger will supply over 14 V and will thus charge your battery much quicker.
PeterD
FollowupID:
502601
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:03
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:03
Not quite Peter - but its a reasonable misunderstanding.
For any given battery , how fast it charges is basically determined by volts drop difference and resistance in leads.
Whereas 3 stages are current limited and a cheap heavy capacity supply like types mentioned can put in a lot more current when battery most needs it, so in the game of back filling the 50AH mentioned they can supply current at about 30% of the cost.
3 stages of course have other advantages which inculde getting the most out of any given battery , but this is not the chief requirement here.
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502625
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:36
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:36
Quote "Whereas 3 stages are current limited"
And you think power supplies are not current limited??? Both will current limit to the maximum rated capacity of the device. However the charger will maintain this limited current for a much longer time than the PSU as the output voltage will rise to a higher voltage. The current a battery will draw from a 13.8 V PSU will start to drop off before it is half charged.
PeterD
FollowupID:
502647
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 07:53
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 07:53
Hi Peter
I already included example lower down with 2 different charge devices at approx same cost ($170) one is limited at 40 amp and other at 16 amp I.E. you begin the process with more than twice the advantage , at some point the 16amp will deliver more and with 120ah AGM which is subject of this post that point is roughly around 70%.
This is the key point in that when you have an hour or so to replace a charge
the power supply is much more cost effective approach . If several hours its a different story and 3 stage is better, espically as its set and forget.
In reality its easy to bump power supply voltage up a bit , they nearly all have a volts trim pot , and this swings advantage further towards power supply.
This is afterall just what a christie charger does.
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502719
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 09:21
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 09:21
Robin
"This is the key point in that when you have an hour or so to replace a charge
the power supply is much more cost effective approach"
It looks like you are forgetting that you should not be letting your batteries discharge to the level where your PSU is a better device for a little bit of a quick charge. Also at the end of the hour you still will not have your battery much over 50% charged. The aim of battery maintenance is to attempt to keep your batteries over 50% full. If you do not want to shorten th life of your batteries it is better to spend the time and do things properly.
PeterD
FollowupID:
502734
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 10:13
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 10:13
We agree peter - but its not my battery , just answering the question in context.
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502750
Reply By: JohnN - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 09:55
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 09:55
Thanks for your replies Roachie and Robin
If I was to use the fullriver for something else and bought a optima / orbital battery for the CT, would the advice change?
I already own the Honda and need 40-50 AH per day and am just trying to work out the best way to put it back in.
I am about to build a box for the Honda that indications suggest will make it almost unnoticeable... so I am not worried about honda noise.
cheers
John
AnswerID:
241537
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 11:49
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 11:49
Hi John
I'm more than happy to sing the praises of Orbital type battery
but I do not think they are best choice for a CT due to low AH capacity.
The fullriver is better type in that application.
Presuming your main criteria is keeping gennie running time down to a couple
of hours.
The method I suggested is best for cost effective dump of a big whack back into
battery in shorter time but not for fully charging it automatically.
Here a 3 stage type is best, and 25amp 3 stage is great, just costly.
If you can take longer - say 3 hours then you open yourself up to a selection
of lower cost chargers like 16amp Jaycar MB3620 $169.
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502482
Follow Up By: Member - eerfree(QLD) - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:22
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:22
John
Just check with your Honda agent before you run the gennie in a box.
eerfree
FollowupID:
502638
Reply By: JohnN - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 12:08
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 12:08
Thanks Robin
Assumption re main criteria is correct. I have a 6/12amp jaycar charger but want to get more in (safely) quicker.
I wonder if I could run a bench power supply for a while (say 1 hour) and then let the little 12amp job finish things off?
Also I have searched Jaycar for the 40amp power supply you mentioned to no avail, do you have a part number?
Help really appreciated.
John
AnswerID:
241559
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:42
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:42
MP 3089 John , new model for 2007 (hope that doesn't mean its paperware).
Yes thats the cost effective solution.
Just considering two similar cost jaycar units the 16amp 3 stage and this 40amp power supply.
Under the condition that your battery is down below 50% then the 16amp 3 stage can only put 16ah back in over a 1 hour gennie run - whereas the 40amp supply can deliver up to 40 AH or more than twice as much.
When batteries get up over around 3/4 full the the 16amp 3 stage starts to win with its high charge volts as 40amp unit tapers off.
(mind you I use power supplies as they have advantages in that they can run heavy current 12v devices, like stoves - whereas most 3 stages can't be a power supply - and getting to the point, always tickle the volts regulator up just a bit to 14.2 or so just like a car alternator uses )
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502651
Reply By: scottp - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 14:38
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 14:38
We use a 50 amp automatic charger with our honda eu2.0.
Charges really fast if run time on the genie is a requirement!
Scott
AnswerID:
241592
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:43
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 21:43
Hard to beat that Scott - guess it wasn't $169 at Jaycar though.
Robin Miller
FollowupID:
502652
Reply By: JohnN - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 08:56
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 08:56
Thanks all
Just the info I was after, looks like I'm off to jaycar... again!
cheers
John
AnswerID:
241796