CSR Permit - have I got a story for you!

Submitted: Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:09
ThreadID: 45875 Views:2649 Replies:5 FollowUps:7
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Have just read the fine lines within the permit which raised a few questions for me as a publisher so I made some phone calls and now ...wow have I got a story for you!!

So on the page dedicated to information about the Wiluna Shire, is a statement that "all travellers going up the CSR must inform the Wiluna Police station before leaving Wiluna" and it lists a phone number.

Now, I was once on the committee of TrackCare as you know, and in recent years here at ExplorOz we have been advised to encourage travellers to take on more responsibility and rather than suggest lodging trips with Police (which invariably they forget to logoff hence causing an obligation for Police to utilise important resources to track down those "missing") to suggest that each party take their own emergency communications and call Police in times of need only.

So I rang the Wiluna Police to see if that viewpoint had changed, and more importantly if they had agreed to make a legally binding arrangment with the Martu people within the Permit. Answer? wait for it..... "what permit?"

I was asked to send them information so that they knew what was going on!

So, do not get too worried about the permit saying "travellers must lodge their trip with Police". This should read, "travellers are recommended to ..." And on that point, they confirmed that would indeed prefer you did lodge your trip with them, but they know people forget to log off, so they don't actually followup unless they hear someone is missing, then they check their logs.

Enjoy!
Michelle Martin
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:58

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:58
So Michelle,

Does the "What permit ?" reply from the Wiluna Police indicate that they did not know a permit was required? Or is it an indication that they thought no permit was required? Or does it mean something that I have not thought of?

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:18

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:18
Duncs,

Having been through the exercise of getting "the permit" I am not surprised at what is happening, or what is not happening.

As far as I can see the AN4WDC have not informed any one except some 4WD clubs of what has happened. I for one would like the AN4WDC to come on to this site and explain
Why the permit is required.
What is the permit supposed to do.
Will the permit restrict the number of vehicles using the Canning at given time, if they are worried about over use.
Who is going to police the permit
What happens if you are there with out one
If you travel the full length of the Canning and not move off the defined track do you still need a permit.
What do you get for the permit fee. (I already know the answer to this one and it is not much.)
Where does the money raised from the permit go to.
How and when are they going to inform the 4WD community and touring public about the permit
When are they going to fix the application site as it is not working properly.

May be then the only hard part about travelling the Canning is the track and not the permit.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Alan H (Narangba QLD) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:45

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:45
Totally agree with Wayne

The real question is why are permits permitted?

The canning and lots of other "roads" are accepted by society as a "right of way" and should not require anyones permission to travel them let alone allow someone to charge for them.

I believe Fed MP Mal Brough is pushing for all permits to cease and to encourage Australians to see Australia and to learn to live with other Australians. (a two-way street) I agree with this and have written to the MP in support.

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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:19

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:19
Duncs - literally, the Police knew NOTHING about any a permit requirement for the CSR. So until today, they had no idea that they should be advising people to get a permit before leaving Wiluna. They wanted me to give them more details.
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Reply By: Tony - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:05

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:05
And now that you have sown the seed, lets see what grows.

Permit in place will the local coppers be stationed at Durba to chek on who does and who does not have a permit to be there. ha, not likely.
AnswerID: 242312

Reply By: Willem - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:55

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:55
I think, Michelle, that there is some misinformation floating about and it is not coming from you :-)

The Police, anywhere in Australia, have no authority to check or request to see permits from anyone crossing Aboriginal Land. The permit system falls within a Private Agreement between the land owner and the person obtaining the permit. I am sure that Police cannot prosecute you for not having a permit. Although it may be an offence within a statute of the Law not to have a permit to enter on to or drive across Aboriginal Land, any prosecution can only be advised by the public prosecutor from a complaint by the Land Owners.

This is why the Police at Wiluna have not been informed about the Permits required.

The CSR is a PUBLIC THOROUGHFARE(for the time being) and NO permit is required to drive the length of it or camp along it for up to a certain distance from the track itself(not siure of the distance). You only need a PERMIT to access lands adjacent to the CSR under the Martu Native Title agreement of 2002. ie Calvert Ranges, Durba Springs etc

Hey!, I'm no lawyer and someone may be keen to show me the error of my ways, but this is my understanding of the permit system.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:21

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:21
Yes agreed! So I found it strange to read IN the permit itself, that travellers MUST report to the Wiluna Police. The document says further along that the Police will not act as a recovery service and will not come to your aid if you are bogged in mud or sand! Anyway, they had never heard of the permit system (well, not the person I spoke to anyway). I have sent her details via email and CC'd the Ngaanyatajjara Council in on my message. I may be stirring things up but I was annoyed to read in the permit that people MUST do something that I knew to be untrue and wanted to get this fact out to people that they are under no obligation to front up at the Police station in Wiluna - for example, you might plan to bypass town (this is possible via a back road into North Pool) ;-)
Michelle Martin
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 21:54

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 21:54
Michelle

Can you post a copy of the permit on members swap file (with ExploreOz water mark across it so no one can use it) so we can have a read of it. or E-mail you have mt address

Regards

Richard
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 22:09

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 22:09
Sorry no, I can't do that but I understand why you might have asked.
Michelle Martin
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Reply By: Member - Phil B (WA) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 03:58

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 03:58
Hi to all,
Re access, right of ways etc.

Few people realise that the original CSR route was a considered a ‘right of way’ but in later years the many access tracks along the CSR no longer followed the original surveyed route.

Many of these tracks are nowadays travelling through aboriginal lands and I guess that why they are saying a permit is needed.
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 10:31

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 10:31
So what's this i've heard that you can't tow a camper trailer between wells 1 & 5?.
I know people that have done this and have had no issue's.
Thanks Lyndon & Bernadette
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Tuesday, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:38

Tuesday, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:38
Hi Lyndon K,
This section of the CSR utilises private tracks thru Cunyu Station and they do not allow access for vehicles with trailers. Alternative access to the CSR for those with trailers is available further up, entering in at either Well 5 or Well 9. By law, they actually have a right to block access anytime they want, and in fact this area is very low ground and during times of rain they will literally CLOSE the track to minimise track degradation and minimise the number of times they need to get out machinery to fix the track. They are very reasonable people with a difficult job to do. They have their reasons why they don't want trailers on these tracks and they have been very reasonable in their request. This section of the track is maintained at their cost, for the purpose of their station use so it's everyone's obligation to respect this. The station owners regularly keep ExplorOz informed with track conditions and regional information so we are thankful for their input and happy to assist with explaining their reasons for their "no trailer" regulations.
Michelle Martin
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