What are the consequences????????

Submitted: Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:33
ThreadID: 46156 Views:2604 Replies:10 FollowUps:11
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As a relitive newcomer to 4WD I want to ask what are the possible consequences of having one free wheeling hub "freewheeling" and one left in the lock position???? I have recently encounted this on my 2000 Hilux as it was left in a public carpark for a day, it wasn't until I got home a distance of approx 25 km I discovered one of the hubs had been engaged. Has this action by some low life cause any major damage either short or long term??? Is there a way of telling if everything is alright???? And finally if damage has been done can u do something to rectify it by jacking the car or something along those lines. Any info anyone can provide to me would be greatly appreciatted. I can remember someone mentioned it was called "diff wind up".
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Reply By: Patrolman Pat - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:36

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:36
Assuming you were in 2wd at the time then there should be no problem that i can think of. You can leave the hubs in or out all the time if you wish, I can't see having one locked and one not making any difference.
AnswerID: 244029

Follow Up By: 4be - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:48

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:48
Thanks for the reply yes was in two wheel drive. Can anyone else elaborate/help further.
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Follow Up By: 4be - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:01

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:01
By the way great explanation. Can u explain in a similar diff wind up?

Cheers
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FollowupID: 504970

Reply By: Kev M (NSW) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:52

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:52
One of the work 100 series Cruisers was driven from Broome to Sydney with the hubs locked in, sealed road the whole way. Apart from dreadful fuel economy it survived the experience, although if it was mine I wouldn't be doing it.

Kev
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AnswerID: 244036

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:55

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:55
If one hub was locked, it just means that the axle for that half of the front diff tube, would be turning. However, there would be no other "movement" inside the front axle tube.

Think of it in the same way if it was the other way around, for a minute. IE: If you had your transfer case in 4H (or 4L for that matter) and only locked one hub, you wouldn't be getting any drive to your front wheels.

For the front drive train to be functional, everything must be locked into the right place. That means the 2 front hubs need to be locked in. When you do this, the front diff will spin and (if you are in 2 wheel drive on your stubby lever), the diff will be spinning the front tail shaft.....but you are still not getting any drive through to the front wheels. You will also NOT be suffering any wind-up, unless you have both hubs locked and the transfer case is in 4H or 4L.

I think I've probably gone over the same thing 2 or 3 times, but hope you get the message..... hahaha
AnswerID: 244038

Follow Up By: 4be - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:59

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:59
Thanks certainly do. I did try looking for a similar thread but could not find one.

Thanks again
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Follow Up By: 4be - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:03

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:03
Could you explain in a similar way(laymans terms) diff wind up.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:37

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:37
Okay 4be....here goes.....

Diff wind-up and Transmission wind-up are two terms used to describe what occurs to the drive-train of a 4x4 (usually part-time but can also occur to a full-time 4x4 with a centre diff lock).

FIRSTLY:.......Diff wind-up occurs when you drive a 4x4 on a solid surface (bitumen, concrete or even "good" gravel that doesn't have a loose surface).

Your diffs are designed to allow the wheels on either side of your vehicle to travel at different "speeds", as is the case when you go around a corner.....the outer wheel needs to travel further/faster than the inside wheel. If you have a front or rear diff lock and have it "locked" whilst trying to go around a corner, you will get diff wind-up in that diff, because the 2 wheels are forced to turn at the same speed. This places a LOT of strain on the diff components and will eventually break the diff or CV joint, or axle etc.

SECONDLY:.......In the same way, you can get "transmission wind-up". This is similar to diff wind up, but instead of the 2 sides of the front and/or rear axle being the culprit, we are now talking about the transfer case/gearbox getting the wind-up. The transfer case, when you're in 4H or 4L, forces the front and rear tailshafts to spin and the same speed. Once again, as you turn a corner or go around a bend, the front wheels take a different path to the rear wheels, requiring the front and rear tailshafts to turn at different speeds; if only by a relatively small amount. If you are driving on a hard surface in 4H or 4L with the front hubs locked, then the the 2 tailshafts are trying to go at the same speed and something is gunna break.

You can generally "feel" diff or transfer case wind-up through the steering wheel and hopefully you can stop and correct the situation before it becomes expensive!!!

When you're on loose gravel, wet roads, snow etc; there is enough "give" in the surface to allow the components to work through these issues and no damage is caused.

Hope this helps...

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:43

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:43
I should add that Transmission wind-up is more common than Diff wind-up. As I said above, diff wind up ONLY occurs if you have locking diffs (eg: ARB air lockers). It is nothing to do with driving on a hard surface in a part time 4x4 with the HUBS locked if the transfer case is in 2 wheel drive. Doing that will not hurt your 4by unless you exceed the recommended speed (around 80 k/h for a Patrol for example). However, it could affect your fuel economy and will cause unnecessary wear and tear on your front drive train if left like that for many thousands of kilometers.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:49

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:49
Geez Bill. That was a good explanation.

You must have a Post Graduate Degree in 4x4, eh?.........lol

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:52

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:52
Nah mate......I was dragged up, kicking and screaming, through the school of hard knocks. hahahaha
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Follow Up By: pt_nomad - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 23:22

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 23:22
If you suspect you have transmission wind up - as described by roachie. When you shift from 4H or 4L and the 4wd light on your dash does not extinguish - trust the light. If you have even a little wind up and are driving on dirt roads it will clear its self, but the sure bet is to reverse the vehicle untill the light goes out. This would usually take less than 100m.
Paul.
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Follow Up By: 4be - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 11:13

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 11:13
Many Many Thanks!!! Ever thought about writting a book? Thanks again.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 19:12

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 19:12
4be,

I think there is a few people that have thought about writing a book about Roachie, I am sure there is enough "history" surrounding him for someone to make a great read LOL!!!hehehehe.

Oh for sure there goes my ride in the ChevNissan come July ROFL.

Regards, Trevor.
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Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:57

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:57
To be on the safe side, lift up the wheels and check the wheel bearings, by grabbing the tyre and moving it side to side and back and forth.

Cheers Steve.
AnswerID: 244040

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:48

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 20:48
You won't do any damage over a short distance by having a single hub locked.

But what happens is that the axle on the locked side will turn, and most likely, the axle on the unlocked side (or the front driveshaft) will turn in the opposite direction. I think its unlikely that the front drive shaft and unlocked side will turn in unison - the shaft with leats resistance will do all the turning.

I don't know what someone meant by "diff wind-up" - maybe they mean the diff centre will be turning at a fast rate, which it will. "Transmission wind-up" is totally different - it occurs when you engage 4wd on bitumen, and puts a heap of stress on the transmission and diff due to front and rear travelling different distances.
AnswerID: 244064

Reply By: obee - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:29

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:29
I have done a few k's unintentional in 4wd on the bitumen and I think the worst thing that happened was the tyres lost a bit more rubber than they would have. The tyres are the weakest link trying to turn at the same speed and rubbing on the road surface. Not to say that the transmission didnt work harder than it should have. Definately not recommended but I wouldn't worry about the hubs being locked or not. The old 4wd's used not to have locking hubs cos they were constantly locked. They started using lockers so the front end performed better and better fuel economy. I never noticed as much though.

I always lock the hubs and use 4wd on dirt roads because thats what they are designed for. I saw a bloke locking his before he went thru some water and I said to him just leave them in. Yeah he said, I forgot last time and had to get out the car in the water to lock them! Thats another good reason to leave them locked said I.

And now that you mention it I came home from holiday after lending the car and after a few weeks I noticed that only one hub was locked. Dumb son in law! Anyway, you cant break a Toyota. Can you? LOL ha ha

I got 150,000 on the clock now and still like new, mechanically anyway.

Owen
AnswerID: 244080

Reply By: Sarg - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:44

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:44
On a non constant 4x4 it is advisable to lock in the hubs at least once a month for a while to get the diff oil circulated around the gears, & helps prevent the uni joints & slip joint getting "flat spots". I've seen crownwheels with rust on them thru lack of use on "the never used, but must have" urban shopping trollys.
AnswerID: 244088

Reply By: Member - dock - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 23:12

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 23:12
Shoudn't be a problem at all as all you are doing is driving the axle of the locked hub to the diff which then spins freely until the other hub and 4WD are engaged. Used to work up in the pine forests and everybody used to leave the front hubs locked in all the time, even on the bitumen, so if it got boggy they didn't have to get out to lock them in. Admittedly they weren't paying for the fuel so were not worried if fuel consumption was up a bit. Used to unlock one hub as a practical joke and see how long it took them to work out the problem when they got bogged.
One stupid bugger got the dozer to come up and fish him out and took about 2 hours of the dozers time. Needless to say no-one owned up when he figured it out.
AnswerID: 244100

Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:10

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:10
As above 4be.... shouldn't be a drama.

I never unlock my hubs on the GQ, that way I'm always ready to tackle a track!
Just don't drive in 4WD on a hard surface!!!! Roachie's info is on the money!!!

Cheers

Brian

AnswerID: 244133

Reply By: 4be - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 11:17

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 11:17
Thankyou all for your info it has been muchly appreciated. What a helpful website and a great bunch of helpful members.

Thanks to all again.
AnswerID: 244156

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