Mathematical Equation

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:21
ThreadID: 46634 Views:2455 Replies:8 FollowUps:8
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I, like a lot of other 4x4 drivers who love to get away into the bush have seen a lot of people having difficulty with water crossings. I believe there must be a formula to work out using depth of water and speed of travel to produce the best possible wake to safely negotiate the crossing with the less amount of problems. I throw this open for discussion and I am sure the opinions will be many and varied, and i feel very useful if someone can work it out.

I believe you will have water ingress if you travel to slowly likewise if you travel too fast. Look forward to any response I get.

Thanks
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:38

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:38
You will also get water ingress if the level is too high.

There are too many variables to apply a "formula".

If the vehicle has a diesel engine and is breathing through a snorkel it can perform better than a petrol engined vehicle as it does not have the "electrics" that a petrol engines needs.

Generally anything over about half a metre needs careful consideration.
Then you need to think how you will determine the depth. Walk the crossing?
Maybe, but what if you are in "lizard" country.
Does the submerged track run straight, or does it bend and have a drop off into deeper water. Is the submerged bed flat, or covered by rocks or boulders.

Even in a reasonably shallow river crossing, you have other variables such as water flow. Entry and exit angles.

No, I don't believe you can apply a "formula" at all.
Maybe, sit back, watch and see if someone else attempts a crossing.

Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - Debbie R (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:44

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:44
Thanks SandMan,

I like the sit back approach myself sounds good to me, hubby posed the question of a formula.

Regards Debbie
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Follow Up By: Member - Au-2 - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:50

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:50
Hi Sandman, Have you ever taken your Jack through deep water? The reason I ask is that, on another forum, someone mentioned that the Jacks have some sort of foam sealant? in the >bell housing< and that if taken into deep water, that part of the engine/clutch/gearbox? will be stuffed afterward. Do you know anything of this fault? I am a SWMBO, so don't know much about these 'sectret mens business' thingys, but do worry about them.
OzeSheila.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:03

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:03
Hell Yes!

I have taken the Jack through water oh, 18 inches deep:-))

Actually, I have had the "misfortune" to come across a stretch of water over the Stuart Highway which I "hit" at about 110+ kmh. It cleaned everything underneath the vehicle back to shiny metal. The road was flooding so fast the warning reflectors hadn't been repositioned. Came across them about a kilometre further on.

Pity about the skidmarks I left on the driver's seat as we aquaplaned across the highway. If there was any "foam sealant" back then, it ain't there now.

Engine/gearbox still OK. No clutch, it's an Automatic.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - Au-2 - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:07

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:07
O.K. Sandman, thanks. I guess I forgot, not every Jack is a diesel. I think I'm having a dumb blonde moment.
OzeSheila.
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Follow Up By: Steve63 - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 16:40

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 16:40
Had a Jack in water so that the bow wave ran up the bonnnet and we floated part of the way. Slight miscalculation. We had the car for another 3 years with no problems with engine, gearbox, clutch etc. Not saying your info is incorrect but ours went swimming a few times without issue.

Steve
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Reply By: Member - Ian S (NT) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:46

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:46
Hi Debbie,

Apply the Cape formula. Come down to the water crossing in reverse, dip the wheels in the water to appear authentic and then park on the exit and await innocent tourist on the other bank. Note carefully the course the tourist takes and the depth over the bonnet. Greet them on the bank then do a U turn and cross the river in the safe zone.
Judge speed to reduce ingress or more pertinately seal your vehicle before you leave home.
Cheers
Ian@Mt Dare
AnswerID: 246675

Follow Up By: Member - Debbie R (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:56

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 22:56
Hi Ian,

Thanks for that, it made me smile I knew that someone would come up with a good one. By the way thanks for the update on the Rugby we don't get it live in Adelaide and was better than waiting for Sunrise in morning to hear the results. I will try the reversing trick.

Thanks
Debbie
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:28

Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 at 23:28
Ian, just love it. Got stuck between Lora and Cooktown 18 mths back.(Early Jan, if anyone needs to cross-check) Newish Tojo on far side. Walked the water,(thigh high) and had a yarn to the (pommy) tourists. I told 'em I was gutless,not going through and walked back, happy to wait. (Wasn't the Wet, just storm rain). Next thing I see they're setting up to drive through, so we bleep off and watched.
Fortunately, they returned to Cooktown.
Perhaps some folk will query my actions. Gofer, eh. That's how we learn.
Jeff.
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Follow Up By: Member - vivien C (VIC) - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:03

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:03
Ian,

We were watching the game on tv and didn't realise it was a delayed broadcast. I came out to check exploroz and saw your post, so I casually asked Ray if he'd like to pick who would win as they were 6 all at the time and said I think I'll go for Qld.

I did tell him after the game that I already knew the outcome!!

I could've won heaps!!

Thanks Viv
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FollowupID: 507515

Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:50

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:50
I don't think there is Mathematical equation can be applied, though the late Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawkins could tell us another story.

There is definitely some Physics involved and the formula is NOT to get water into the air intake to the engine

The common sense approach is to walk the water crossing to see the depth or if thgere are obstacles and then tarp up the front of the vehicle whether it be deisel or petrol and then make sure the bow wave of the water does NOT come over the bonnet of you vehicle ................but you knwo that already, don't you...:-))

Having drowned a number of 4bies in my younger years I now stick to desert travel...lol

Cheers
AnswerID: 246713

Reply By: Footloose - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:15

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:15
Water too high +water flowing too fast X diesel no snorkel = BANG =$$$$
AnswerID: 246720

Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:33

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:33
I do believe there is a mathematical equation for water xings.

If you get water in your engine it goes bang, this = lots of water in your car.

The cost of a new engine + the cost of water damage = lots of money, there for this is a big - in your wallet.
AnswerID: 246723

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:47

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:47
Water height/Axle height= Y
Length of crossing+ car care factor= Z
Base of crossing+ engine type= A (sand 5, rocks 4, mud 3, dirt 2, black top 1.) [diesel 4, petrol 3, snorkel fed diesel 2, snorkel fed petrol 1]
Precaution+ Vehicle setup= B
Approach speed-Bank Balance= X

Y + Z + A + B = X

If X is a positive value then don't bother as it will be too expensive. If X is negative the choice is yours.
AnswerID: 246725

Reply By: Rod W - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:30

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:30
In a previous time I had an FJ45 Tojo with a 155 petrol donk (simple and well sealed electrics) and we lived in the tropics. Had never heard of placing tarp trick and use to drive the Tojo straight into and through the creeks with water over the bonnet. Just luck I suppose.

Now I have a 75 series 4.5lt petrol (full of electronics) about 3 years ago went through a river crossing (tarp on) water level at the top of the underside of the front wheel arches, not a problem went through and proud as punch... what a great vehicle! However it was a different story coming back through the same crossing, after the third attempt, the engine getting wet, I said to me mates "bugger it pull me through".

Spose diesels do have something going for them.
AnswerID: 246730

Reply By: Member - Debbie R (SA) - Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 21:33

Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 21:33
A big thank you to everyone who answers my thread I do appreciate it and there are some very clever gentlemen out there. Thanks Guys

Regards
Debbie
AnswerID: 246887

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