Updated info needed RE: diesel tuning

Luke, interesting call. Can't help, and don't wish to hijack your post. Just wondering if anyone from Melbourne to Adelaide can recommend a dieselgas fitter, and just how much does the dyno tune contribute to the final outcome?
(Hope the question falls within your parameters mate).
Thanks.
Jeff.

Hey Luke , cant help you out buddy , but if we are going up to visit Willem in the morning should'nt you be going to bed now?? just like i am about to??...lol

Cheers ......Borgy

Luke,
Thanks for the brief reply re tuning costs.
One tends to think that either of the following scenarios may apply.
(1)The poor bastard is an owner-operator, so Friday night is relax night: NOT.
All the poor silly --nt wants to do is mess with motors. Strewth, if he'd wanted to play tax agent, he'd have taken an Arts Law degree.

(2)The opposite, I guess. A big outfit, where the Boss is always "negotiating" a super deal from a yacht in the Bermuda Triangle.
Wish I knew.
Jeff.

G'day Luke,
I had HiTech do my 4.2TD back in about 2003 and i was happy with the result. They gave me a dyno printout, but only of the results after they'd tuned it.

When I got the new turbo fitted by Berri Diesel Service, they tuned it "on the road". It took about 4 test drives for them to get it to where they felt it was "right". I hung around most of the day and watched them do the job and when it came time to do the tune up, he got me to do a couple of the drives myself (with him in the passenger's seat monitoring the gauges......EGT and Boost).

I'm not convinced that a dyno tune is the "be-all and end-all" of systems to get the job right. If you are dealing with competent mechanics, then I reckon the on-road tune-up is as good a method as any other.

Cheers

Roachie

Hi Luke,

It's important to understand just what 'tuning' a turbo diesel involves. It's unlike a petrol engine, where tuning used to mean setting the ignition timing and advance to factory specs then ensuring the air/fuel mixture is correct throughout the rpm and load range by various carburettor adjustments. Now, with electronic ignition, platinum-tipped spark plugs and fuel injection with exhaust oxygen sensors, tuning of petrol engines is largely a thing of the past - they never go 'out of tune' unless some component fails.

'Tuning' a turbo diesel after turbo/exhaust modifications is a different exercise. It is about setting the injection system to suit the changed air flow regime through the engine. Adding a turbo or increasing boost pressure or adding an intercooler or putting a less restrictive exhaust system on are all about increasing the total air mass flow through the engine at full throttle (albeit there is no actual "throttle" in most diesels).

So the diesel 'tuning' exercise is to adjust the injection pump settings such that the maximum amount of fuel that can be efficiently and safely combusted is injected into the increased air mass, when you put your foot to the floor.

The very minimum this should involve is: a) ensuring the injection timing is set to factory specs and b) adjustment of the maximum delivery control on the pump while operating the engine at full throttle under load at full boost pressure - while monitoring EGT closely and ensuring it never gets too high. This can be done by loading the engine on a dyno or driving on the road - generally up a steep hill.

A more thorough approach would involve adjusting the manifold pressure compensator, if one is fitted, to again ensure the optimum quantity of fuel is injected at all boost levels from zero to maximum - at safe EGT levels. This adjustment can have a dramatic impact on perceived 'turbo lag'.

Better again would be to remove the injectors before any 'tuning' starts and check their spray patterns and pressures, to ensure they are OK to begin with. This obviously takes more skilled labour time and facilities.

Also, if we're talking about aftermarket turbos, the system makers may have experience that non-factory spec timing gives improved performance with their particular systems. So, it might pay to have, say, MTQ work on an MTQ system, Denco work on a Denco system, etc.... to take advantage of that sort of experience.

All the above describes mechanically injected engines but the same principles apply to electronically controlled systems - just the adjustment techniques will be different.

A bit long-winded but I hope this helps.

i think the dyno has its benefits over a road tune because the mechanic can dial in the fuel while the engine is running at operating speed,at least thats how I always thought it to be.
It wouldnt take much more to road test it after that to double check everything is ok.

Ive had both my non turboed diesels done like this and everything seems ok
The dyno also tells me how much power Im getting at the wheels.
Its also and indicator of engine condition and inj pump pressure because if they are not up to standard it will not give good HP

we dont have a dyno at work and we do fit a few turbos.
all our testing is done on road and ive never seen it take more than an hour once pump timing ect has been done.
but being in bendigo makes it a bit easier to find a good hill and open road close to work.
cheers

Thankyou everyone for your replys, It looks like theres an opinion on both so it might come down to whoever can do it for me when I can get to them, as time is pretty tight for me these days.

Cheers Luke

Hi guys (and gals)

First post so I'll use this opportunity to say hi.

My name is Robert. I run a company called RaceWorks and affilliate with a company called D-Gas. We tune race cars for LPG and enhance diesel to LPG on both small and large cars and prime movers.

Regarding the question on dyno vs road tune. We need to understand that dynos were invented to allow for tuning in a "safe" tuning environment. Dyno tuning allows the tuner to concentrate on the tune and not hitting other cars on the road. It is a much more controlled environment. Apart from this the rolling road in "endless" so the vehicle could held at particular load points for some time to allow for the tuner to gather, read, and write data. Doing this on the road works poorly as mostly you run out of road OR run into other cars!!

In my opinion a tuner should dyno tune the vehicle to get the tune he wants to acheive and then road test the tune to make sure he is happy.

Dyno tuning will not give the same characteristics as driving on the road. ie many of the cells (cells are in the maps which the ECU reads) are not even looked at when doing a tune on the dyno as the same cells are used over and over when the vehicle is at WOT (wide open throttle) from say 1500RPM to red line.

To hit EVERY cell the tuner would be on the dyno for many many hours which owners would USUALLY not be happy to pay for. Think of how many hours the car manufacturers spend on getting the tune right ... and how many engines they destroy learning about where the safe and not safe areas are.

When we tune a car we try to achieve a real world envorment by tuning on the duno and on the road AFTER the dyno tuning is complete and we are happy with it.

Diesel to LPG installation and tuning is a much easier senario as the LPG system uses the factory sensors to fire the LPG injector(s). Thus the hard work is done for you by the OEM.

If people are interested they can email contact me for some info on converting fuel or diesel to LPG. We can supply only or supply and install.

Cheers
RR