Car Charging Output
Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 18:55
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deserter
Wondering if anyone can tell me a ballpark figure for what amps per hour a Prado - or similar vehicle - would charge the dual system at and alternator output.
I have two conflicting reports - first is that most cars produce 70 -90 amps per hour.
Other report suggests 12.8 amps per hour.
The LED readout on my van battery pack shows 12.8 when the anderson plug is connected. Just wondering if the 70 - 90 statement is true - then why isn't that happening ??
Thanks for any help.
Reply By: Peter 2 - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:02
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:02
The alternator rating (max output) would probably be in the specs in the handbook.
As you have been told most modern vehicles are around the 90amp mark but cruisers are 110-120 these days and would expect the Prado to be similar. This figure is the total load the alternator can handle, start adding up all the lights, accessories, engine, trans etc etc and you will get to that level eventually ;-))
However your battery will never accept or receive those sort of currents and if they did the battery wouldn't last long. Typical charge rates are in the order of 10 - 20 amps usually which is why a flat battery takes several hours at highway speeds to be anything close to fully charged.
Your 12.8 on the battery readout is volts not amps.
AnswerID:
247929
Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:05
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:05
Hi deserter
Your alternator may be able to produce the 70 to 80 amps but the battery pack will only absorb what the battery type, cable size and battery state of charge will allow.
Most batteries will only absorb around 5 to 15 amps in a remote installation.
Please be aware this varies quite a bit. I would need more details.
This is an average and just a guide to give to info.
... :-(
Some people have made it hard to answer a simple question. Email me direct if you like.
Regards
Derek.
AnswerID:
247930
Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:24
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:24
Hi Deserter
In addition to the 2 helpful answers above another underrated factor is simply that the alternator while rated at maybe 90 amps just doesn't put this out except at high speed.
Forget exact figures but from Patrol manual the alternator test point was something like 30amps at 2000 rpm.
I.E. even if battery was in a position to except current it couldn't get anything like 70-90 amps at normal cruising speed.
Robin Miller
AnswerID:
247936
Reply By: Member - Paul H (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:27
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:27
I just had a look at this today..albeit the camper battery. I have a dual battery setup in the Patrol and another 120a/h in the camper hooked up via an anderson plug.
I have a Xantrex battery monitor in the camper and with the car idling and charging both the Patrols Aux battery and the camper battery, the camper was receiving 12amps. Not sure if this is good or bad but thats what it is getting.
Cheers,
Paul.
AnswerID:
247937
Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 21:03
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 21:03
Paul, as is mentioned above by very competent people the battery will accept a DIFFERENT and varying charge depending upon it's State of Charge.
When ALL 3 batteries are "fully charged" the Xantrex battery monitor will indicate almost 'nil' charge going into the batteries, conversely when one or more batteries is very low voltage (11.0v) the Xantrex battery monitor will indicate a much larger charge is going to the battery.
The 'alternator REGULATOR' is there to actually "regulate" voltage from the alternator... so the batteries don't undercharge or overcharge etc.
FollowupID:
508784
Follow Up By: drivesafe - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 06:05
Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 06:05
Hi Paul H, most meters in vehicles, caravans and camper trailers are next to useless but the one you have there is probably the Rolls Royce of battery monitors.
Xantrex monitors will give you very accurate info about your battery’s state and if you are getting 12 amps of charge at idle, the meter is showing that your battery is low but far more importantly that your dual battery set up is working very
well.
Most dual battery systems would be flat out trying to provide 12 amps at highway speeds so to get 12 amps at idle is excellent.
Did you install the set up, including the Xantrex monitor or did the camper manufacturer install it.
Cheers
FollowupID:
508843
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 08:26
Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 08:26
"The 'alternator REGULATOR' is there to actually "regulate" voltage from the alternator... so the batteries don't undercharge or overcharge etc. "
This myth is so popular I wish Mythbusters would get onto it - with a lot of searching they may be able to find one, but I've never heard of one (other than a few VERY recent vehicles).
The Alternator Regulator keeps the output voltage constant (with fine trim based on its internal temperature). There is no way it can sense any batteries state of charge.
Lead acid batteries self-regulate - as their state of charge increases they draw less current.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 08:34
Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 08:34
Mainey - apologies - I misread your quote when I wrote the reply above.
You are right - you're actually making the same point I am !!!
I must remember not reply in a hurry !
FollowupID:
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Reply By: deserter - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:39
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:39
Thanks guys - thats good info.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:47
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 19:47
If yours is a 90series Prado, the alternators are 80amp. Not sure about the 120series. And the voltage is regulated to around 14.2 volts at cooler temps. When temperature rises, the regulated voltage drops. This is deliberate.
Derek has mentioned the major factors that affect how much current goes back into the battery. The current gradually decreases as the battery is charged. Theres nothing you can do about this, apart from ensuring you have good wiring, and good earth leads going to the motor.
Most N70 cranking batteries that are discharged to say 12.0 volts (70% discharged), will accept 30+amps at 14.2 volts from the alternator. The battery that is used to crank the vehicle, is unlikely to be discharged (cranking uses little capacity) so within a few minutes of starting the vehicle, would only be accepting say 5 amps, and later this would be 1-2 amps.
If any of your batteries are old or stuffed, they will have a higher internal resistance, so will accept less current, and take longer to recharge.
Cheers
Phil
AnswerID:
247942
Follow Up By: deserter - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:04
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:04
Its a 120. So if the LED on the van battery pack is reading 12.8 - its pointed out earlier that this is volts. Sorry for the dumb question - but what does that equate to in amps ?
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:18
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:18
#1 Volts are volts, and amps are amps.
Its like a tap, where the
water pressure is the same as volts; the amount of
water flowing is amps; the amount of
water in the bucket is capacity (amphours), and the diameter of the hose is resistance.
#2 There's a basic equation in electronics called OHM'S law. It explains everything:
Voltage = current x resistance.
So if you were able to increase the volts, then the amps will increase.
Or if the resistance increases, the amps will drop.
Its not a dumb question. Its not understood by many.
Cheers
phil
FollowupID:
508759
Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:23
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 at 20:23
So what does 12.8 volts mean on your meter??
Can I suggest that you only take any notice of this meter if you haven't been driving for a few hours, and its had time to settle.
It is a guide as to how much power is left in your battery.
So 12.8 volts is fully charged.
12.1 volts might be 70% discharged.
11.8 volts is getting close to flat
FollowupID:
508762
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Jun 22, 2007 at 09:10
Friday, Jun 22, 2007 at 09:10
It's also important if using battery Voltage to indicate state of charge that there has been NO current drain from the battery for several hours.
If the interior light is on then the current it draws will reduce the battery voltage.
If your voltmeter is connected to the underdash wiring then there will also be voltage drop from the battery if you have any loads connected at all.
FollowupID:
509300