Changes to the indigenous permit issue

Why not... ;-)

Precisely

where abouts on the old Eyre hwy??
Ian

Between Nullardor RH and Cook Road..

Heading West

indigenous Residents don't have to obtain a permit to go to Queen St Brisbane

Doug, and the indigenous people don't have to have a permit to leave their "don't come in here " ink a hol free" communities to go into the white community and get plastered.
Sorry but this time I think Howards partially right. Pity he didn't do a bit more consulting with the aboriginal communities before putting his foot down.
But they might have wanted to hear a word he doesn't use, and I feel SORRY for him.

Footy,

According to recent news coverage, there seems to be quite a few indigenous "spokespersons" in agreement with Big John. The ones who are against the proposed changes seem to be from the 'arty farty' community and academia as well as the usual ratbags who say 'no' to everything.

Except of course the CLC........ Hmmm worried about their jobs or the communities they are suposed to be watching over?????????

Footloose
Sorry my ass, was it you who took the children, I know it wasn't me , it sure wasn't the Prime Minister, So why should I , he , or you say sorry for something we didn't do, Look if your Great Great Grandpa went and snotted my Great Great Grandpa on the nose 70 years ago I would not expect you to come to me today and say ....sorry .....well then again I guess I could sue ya for millions , get the gist now,

Doug

2 true,,, was it what she said,, OR they way she said it???? THAT is the question.

what she said was that all AUSTRALIANS ARE EQUAL, who cares about the way she said it.
Ian

Please explain :)

u reckon Ian??? It's all in the delivery,,,,,,,,, see Footy knows,,, so he'll explain,,,,, or someone will,,,,, anyway,,,,,,

Sorry, tried to explain but seems that political controls up top won't allow critisizm of ALP on this forum
Ian

just takin the mickey,,, your turn next time Ian.

what I said was that 3% of Australians get to say where 97% of Australians are allowed to go and this forum would not allow it to be said!! I see bias towards the ALP view, and do not think this is the place for that. This followup might get through, maybe!!

AFAIK, and I've never been a fan of hers, you're correct. Australia for Australians. Unfortunately, this leaves out a host of migrants and other "non Australian" This was interpreted by some as a revival of the white Australian Policy. At least thats the way the overseas press reported it. I doubt that she intended it that way.
I mean you serve all kinds in a fish and chip shop in Ipswitch. Surely their colour or race couldn't matter. But that's not what she projected. Perhaps she just got too caught up in it all ?
In the end, she was naieve. She felt that the feelings of her particular group of supporters were universal. They weren't. Like so many "self made" people, she assumed that her side of the fence was the only side...it wasn't.
And she assumed that she would be taken seriously by everyone...she wasn't.
Much to the shame of some pollies, she also underestimated how easy it was to throw money at a problem and make it go away.

Footloose

Come on if you belive that your more "naieve" then she was, she ment what she said. it was the people on her tail coats that sank her..

Richard

I told you Footy would explain and AFAIK he's right which is what I professed in my original post,,, not what was said ,, the way it was said = the way it came across and the way it was interpreted,,,
anyway if we are havin one of these sessions ,,, thank god it's almost friday,,, funnies day,,, or we could go to se*,,,,,,can I say that?????

Why am I not equal to the black fella up the road?>?? We are all immigrants to this land.,.. The only difference is dates. Only political money killed Pauline, cos at the time it was "politically not correct" and an election was won because people chose to be that way. Her stance is still the same, "Australians are all equal", why do we allow 3% of the population to dictate the lives of the 97% of the rest of us????

Richard, perhaps I am naieve, but history is yet to pass that decision.
I believe she was dumb and dangerous.

Ian, less than 3% of the population dictate our lives...and they're in parliament :)))

Because we put them there because we assumed they could do the job. If you actually took the time to read Paulines agenda you would be amazed that you might actually agree with her. Aussies for aussies, black, white, yellow, blue. She was dumb, and dangerous to the major parties because she said what most Aussies think::::: Australia is for all Australians. Most Aussies are for the death penalty but no Govt will ever put it to the vote because it is not politically advantageous. Thats why the major parties combined to sink Pauline. She said what most Aussies thought and they were afraid that she might influence the voters. Nothing more or less. Anyway this is getting OT. So no more!!!
Ian

Yep and the ALP suck :)))))

Gramps, they all do.
Don't vote, it only encourages them :))))))

Hahahaha that's for sure Footy. Just proving to Ianw that you can criticize the ALP and other boofheads without worrying about any consequences.

Gramps, just thinking about your byline. Paris may not be blended, but she's certainly one of the "in" people at the moment.
I guess without her hairdresser she'll be re discovering what her natural hair colour once was ? And I wonder what her "outing" will bring ? More froth and bubble no doubt, oh well it gives us something to laugh about :)

Footy,

At the moment, Paris seems to be the only "constant" in a changing world. Why, only today we had the absolutely unbelievable happen in Canberra.

Tiny Kevvy Whatsisface actually agreed with something our beloved leader, the very venerable John Howard, said in relation to the abuse currently suffered by indigenous children in the NT (and everywhere else by the way). Yes, that's what I said, Tiny Kevvy is in agreement with Big John Howard.

ps Of course the dopey Democrats were so disorientated by this that they came out strongly against the initiative. Last reports said Bob and the Greenies were still off playing with the fairies :))))

Gramps, I must congratulate you on your political observations as they match mine. Mind you, I usually refrain from political discussions as they tend to get very divisive and we are all entitled to our opinions.

Des,

I must say I have a good chuckle about the way some people get so fired up over politics. It's just too easy :))))))))

Gramps, you are astute fellow, you sure you didn't go for preselection? hahahah :))))

JohnR,

Naaaa, they're all too left wing for me now. I'm a bit to the right of Attila the Hun :)))))

Pauline was dangerous and dumb to AUSTRALIA not the political parties.

What she had was a load of "poularist" views and no policy or plan as to how she would actualy put in to place what she was preaching. (Which was purely the political bandwagon, she said what people wanted to hear)

Anyone remember what her solution for unemployment, education, health or anything else was? Hmmm nope, she'll work them out as she goes.... A mouth piece with no concern for her actions...

To end a quote from the courier
"A District Court jury in Brisbane found Hanson, 49, and her co-accused David William Ettridge, 58, had lied when registering One Nation as a political party in Queensland in 1997."

her defence....

"Hanson's former adviser and NSW Upper House MP David Oldfield said Hanson's crimes were committed out of ignorance. "

And that was just registering the party... How the hell did she or her advisers plan to run our country?

Hey, Michelle, I'm a Howard supporter, but I still say he is afraid to address the points that Pauline raises. He is a political animal and must follow the popular opinion as expressed by the media. Unfortunately the media controls debate in this country, and political agendas are governed by that
Ian

Gosh, I'd hate to start a political row, and I'm sorry to continue to argue the point but I have to counter-comment because I do admit that I find Howard to be very strong to his own ideas and NOT pushed by the media opinion. It's one of the very things I personally really like about our Prime Minister. I also felt Pauline had a lot of valid points and these two did have some common ground, poor thing she was indeed a tall poppy. I'm not a real hard core follower of every sentence said in parliament, but I get the general main issues, so this is just my view and I guess I'm going to continue to support him. A damn better man than anyone else I've seen contend for the top job, and I don't envy him one little bit. At least we don't live in the USA!

.. but I love what you said "She was dumb, and dangerous to the major parties because she said what most Aussies think". YES.

Yes

But if the country was run by "what most Aussies think". God help us...

Think about it.. :-)

Richard

Perfect.......... Our present govenment has made some great changes at the moment. But I feel they have made the changes at the wrong time..... I do really hope that there way of thinking wil continue in the next election as they have made some major valid points too...... Not just hanson as she was in your face............ Our pesent government is bringing som of the same changes just discretly. I have many more views but it is impolite to talk about politics......... One thing I would like to say is our business has prospered because of this government........

Look You have really got my goat up thinking about what the previous government did to the construction industry....... Example: We would work on building sites with many allowences........... The biggest I have an issue with is Productivity allowence?????????? What does this mean? Do you get the allowence if you have made money for the company during the day??????
Or do you get the $4.50 per hour productivity for being productive in making your boss broke????????????? YES they get it even if you have not performed and not made money for the bossssss............... Don't get me wrong, If I had a Job that needed to be done in 5 days but the skilled labour that I had employed took 10 days......... Why should I pay these blokes the UNION standard productivity when they have not been productive to me?????????? Before you say, you should not have quoted the job for 5 days when it takes ten days to do it........ I have quoted it in that time because I am unskilled in that position and could do it in 4 days....... So I expect our skilled guy should be able to do it in 3 daysHUH??????????
Ok bring it on...... defend me of shoot me down in flames because I would like to know whether I am right or not?

Huh ? Youmean we got the pollies we deserved AGAIN ?

Thats only really valid in a first past the post system. Our system means that one party can get 37% of the vote...and have a man date (EEK).

If I ran for Parliament and only got 37% of the vote, no matter which party I snuggled up to, I'd be thinking that I wasn't all that good.

Heh, heh, well Footloose, I guess thats the difference between you and a pollie. Once they is in 'office' they think they DO have one o them man dates no matter how many votes they got !

I agree with Steve here (Don't get me wrong, I want the permit system abolished too, but for ther reasons, eg fairness to all Australians)

I fail to see how removing the control the permit system provides is going to help reduce alcohol/substance/pornographic abuse?

BUT I also do not agree that any Australian should need a "permit" to explore any part of this country.

The synical will also question Steve's motivation no doubt, after all it is easier to go on a tour through these areas than go through the "hassle" of obtaining the permits yourself. Not suggesting this is the case with you Steve but as a prior Territorian I do know of some of the "deals" with Aboriginal artists etc that goes on.

Steve

The way I read it is, to get rid of the permit system was not for "US" or the children, but as a way for the government to enter the Aboriginal land without having to seek permission from the land owners. so the goverment can now just entre there land and take it over. All in the name of saving the kids,... it's a sad day

Richard

The only thing there is why not put a "temporary" ban in place, similar to the 5 year "lease" arrangement or some sort of exemption system. (Which you would suspect the police allready have)

Steve, that's interesting news about Mal Brough. But at least he's been to Alice Springs and got down and dirty with the locals I guess. No doubt Hairy will tell us the press releases were all done in the back of the pub or something :)))

As I understand the operation of the permit system, it has been used by the bad guys to keep insiders from finding out what they've been up to, in some cases. Nothing in the press because they wont let the press in. So some have been running their own little kingdoms and doing what they want with and to the locals.
I have only heard bits about this, and have no examples come to my knowledge.

Unlike some here, I don't mind asking people before trampling all over their backyard. I've never had any problems when traversing aboriginal land, perhaps I've been lucky.

Aboriginals wish to lay claim to being the "first" Australians... This is then where historical significance etc comes in to it. But did the Aboriginal people ask the original inhabitants for permission?

There are now several well documented and verified historical sites, particulalry through the Kimberley region of human activity dated well before that of the Aboriginal cultures.

It is a hard question but at what point does this become 1 country with 1 class of citizens? We are not talking about a permit system for visiting sacred sites or access to "traditional" communities but large areas of our country. These were nomadic people and moved with the food/water/season.

Like the Aboriginal people we should have the same rights to access and explore our country. I don't think anyone above has a "problem" with asking but questions just what the purpose of this is and what effect it has on "reconciliation"

And lets face it if the media really thought enough people cared about the problems in these communities, with today's technology we would have this abuse plastered over every media outlet in the country. It really wouldn't be that hard to be a tourist visiting" these areas and film it

I disagree with some of your assumptions above whyalla,,, but generally agree with what you say,,,

for work I fly and drive to many communiies and have a permit to enter ALL in the nT for work,,, if we fly into many communities a ute load of young guys come to 'check you out",,, so journo's would be caught easily,,, and if we drive they still know very quickly who's around and agian they don't generally issue permits to jorno's willy nilly,,, some communiies are closed and others receptive to visits,,

so one size doesn't necessarily fit all,,

Richard the government doesn't need take over to enter communities,,,,, they issue themselves permits to enter under current legslation,,,,

Footy agree with 99% of your comments,, your objective here

Baz

Baz Hi

So why now?

is it a round up or line in the sand, from now on?

I don't understand the need, not right now...

Regards

Richard

The current Govt's broad intentions in this area have been in the press since Mal was made Minister and the coroners comments in Alice Springs.
Things have been building up, and they have decided that the climate is right electorally. I suspect that it won't do their re election chances a whole lot of good in many electorates, especially as the Opposition agrees with the policy.
If anything goes wrong, it will go wrong in a big way.
The race card is an easy one to be defeated at election time on.
From the other side of the fence, why now? why not ?

Footloose, I see your point, and yes why not, But if it is done for political reason the you have to ask why now?

The west is being threatened that if we don't supply cops we wont get money or something,, there lost the plot,, there starting to get punch drunk .. IT'S TIME.

Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard in response to about 3 posts up

I guess the why now is because for 20, 30 or 40 years we have tried thefollowing approaches;
- take em away
-motherhood approach
-throw money approach
-do gooder approach etc etc infinitum,,,

we then did it all again,,,,, and still no result,,, so do it again,,, it's all $$$$$$$$$$

taxpayers $$$$$$$ that is and we're at square 1 still.

Barry

Bax to Baz

Well in the NT you have to allow access if it is road,,, UNLESS,,, the road goes into an area where under separate legislation you need a permit,, ie Aboriginal land.

It's not as if we want to drive through other people's houses or something,, it's about transit also from point A to B that is an issue,,, on a "public" (use this word carefully here) road.

Baz

I understant exactly, one thing that is annoying though, when farmers do it (and they do it alot here in NSW and VIC) people seem to except it more, and there no access at all when they do (ie) no permits, at least the permit system allows access though aboriginal land.

One excample is Bonds Rd at Swifts creek in Vic High Country

So if they do get rid of it, will they seek access through farmer land if they have blocked access of a what used to be a public road.

Baz.

Gone Bush I doubt 90% of what you propose would happen.

A lot wouldn't agree with a lot of your claims especially when there taxes increase in proportion to all the spending your planning, and don't forget all the bankrupcy you just caused because no one can afford their mortgage anymore, not to mention the rise in workforce shortage you just created, especially in minig areas where there are a lot of younger people working.

How do you intend to pay for all this? Of course you'll cut out the duplication of pollies and all their rorts and fix everything!

I'm not a big fan of John Howard but lets be realistic about his pay. I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I believe it is somewere around $350,000, lets say $400,000 for the purpose of this.

Now have a look around at what some of the company CEO's get..... OK so they run big business and employ people blah blah blah but they aren't responsible for runnning the country and it's future.

Roger Corbet former CEO Woolworths $8.4 million (Per year including bonuses)
($11.8 million in his last year )
John Fletcher Coles CEO $4.36 million
Sol Trujillo receives $8.7m in remuneration (Former Telstra CEO ?)
Wesfarmers - the chief executives getting between $5 million and $6 million

That's not even looking at the Banks, Onesteel, BHP, Media Groups etc

By the way the CBA's CEO gets around $7m.

The problem with running the country or anything else by the principal of what people want is that it is too simplistic.

I have no idea how you have connected my post with unreachable mortgages, a shortage of workers (unless they are all murderers and rapists and I killed 'em off) and CEO salaries.

Simply an amazing, mind numbing response, if you don't mind me saying.

To put it simply

Who is paying for your dream list?
Exactly the point about Pauline..... Get on the bandwagon and say what people WANT to hear, heck worry about how it will happen later..... Like after someone else is voted in to fix the problems created.