Oil

I was using Penrite Jap Truck 15w40 oil and had no problems other than a small amount of blow by which I think is normal for a turbo diesel at about 200,000ks. I changed to 20w-60 penrite and got awlful blow by and even a film of oil around the thorrle body. Switch back to 15w40 and it settled down again. Just recently I changed to Castrol Diesel Magnatec 15w40 and I have no blow by at all, I even tested this by removing the turbo inlet pipe and cleaning it, it is still clean. I have no film around the throttle body and no mess on the rocker cover... Just food for thought. My engine is a 3.0L TD 1kz-te Toyota.

Strangest POV. Thicker oil (to certain extend of course) is better lubricant and therefore will prolong engine life. We always talking about compromises here. Sure thicker oil will require more warm-up then thinner one. So if put too much load on cold (particularly sub-zero) engine with thick oil then oil pressure will go too high and could lead to damage. But if one has no brain in skull, what can I say? Plus manufacturers trying to specify as thin oil as only possible, because it lead to less fuel consumption. Thinner oil however (I am talking here about mineral and semi-synthetic oil, have not got much experience with fully synthetic one) worn out much faster and therefore will require changing more frequently. And in addition if engine already a bit worn out, then putting thicker oil will definitely improve torque. And of course if oil too thin then there will be just not enough pressure to lubricate properly in hot condition under high load. Anyway they always recommend to put thicker oil (engine as well as transmission) when driving in hard condition – I would be interested how it is coexist with your theory?
Cheers

KSV, Can I ask you to cut and paste what you've written above, and email it to every major oil company and see how they respond.

Perhaps you can put some gear oil into your engine and see how it goes.

"Oils are oils"...????
i'm gunna tell Sol what you said...i reckon he aint gunna be happy

==>Perhaps you can put some gear oil into your engine and see how it goes.

They says “Ask fool to pray and he sure smash his head against floor”. What can I add?

As for oils companies they love me to put thinner oil in my engine because that means more frequent oil change and more profit for them. Furthermore they start to convince me that I would beneficial enormously by putting fully synthetic $25/l oil into 20 y.o. commodore. Why? Again because they can make more money.

You missed key words “to certain extend of course”. FYI am using Penrite HRPDiesel 15 with 15W50 rating. Penrite, however, recommends HRP Diesel for Toyota 80 series and this is **THICKEST** diesel oil what they produce. I am happy to use a bit thinner for two reason – I have DTS turbo and change oil at 7.5K interval. When I will be going to desert, I would definitely consider thicker one.

This is extraction from Penrite site:

=====================================
HPR DIESEL

High viscosity engine oil for use in older diesel engined vehicles operating in extreme climates, under high loads or where oil consumption with conventional viscosity grades is a problem. May be used in turbocharged engines.

SAE 20W-60, API CH-4/SJ, ACEA A3/B3, M2C 911-A1, Global DLD-1
=====================================

Key words here “High viscosity” and “under high loads”.

You really have to do your homework better before posting such misleading information.

KSV aren't you an insulting little prig. To wit "They says “Ask fool to pray and he sure smash his head against floor”. What can I add?"

Probably :-) But he suggest me to use gear oil in engine :-)
Little (i.e. young)? Oh, I wish :-)
Cheers.

KSV,
You sound very passionate about thick oil! I'll go back to my original statement.
"To use thicker oil is a sure way to accelerate wear. It takes longer for oil to get around at startup."

I used the word "Thicker". By that I mean thicker (higher viscosity) oil than is specified for the vehicle. Penrite 20W60 for example is a thicker oil than most manufacturers specify for temperatures in most of Australia.

You may have noticed that manufacturers are using thinner oils. Most petrol vehicles are now using 5W30 and many newer diesels have dropped to this viscosity as well. The primary reason is to reduce wear, the secondary reason is better fuel consumption.

So how does thinner oil reduce wear??? Its all about getting everything lubricated as quickly as possible at startup, and in particular, the overhead camshaft and components on the top of the engine. The majority of wear happens at startup - so its one reason why a diesel that does short trips will wear out quicker than a diesel that does the long runs.

Vehicle manufacturers have progressively reduced the size of the oil galleries, so they need less oil to fill them, and they have are also making oil filters smaller, so they fill up quicker. FLOW is the keywiord here. A thinner oil flows better than a thick oil, so it travels more quickly down a thin tube. So the end result is that the top end of the motor is lubricated sooner, and with thinner oil (like when the motor is hot) so it flows better.

Your Penrite quote is fine, but I think you have picked the wrong key words. You said the key words were "high Viscosity" and "under high loads". I'd suggest the most important key words in the statement is "older diesel", "extreme climate" and "where oil consumption with conventional viscosity grades is a problem". In real life, we may be talking about less than 1% of users.

I do my homework.

I've learnt to ignore the abuse that KSV hurls to many posters on this forum, so I just ignore it.

As for Member No1, yep you've got me worried - Sol looked pretty mean, but I liked his set of wheels.........

I am sorry, Phil, but your statement “using thicker oil wear of engine because of start-up process” is as much absurd as saying “difflockers is best way to kill your driveterrain faster because it put extra stress when cornering”. I mean – use everything **PROPERLY**. If one fill engine with thicker oil and then start it in winter in alpine at –10 degrees and then immediately tows huge caravan uphill – sure method to kill engine. In the same way if one lock diffs and will try cornering at 100 km/h on freeway – sure recipe for disaster. I been using 30W70 in my old 60 series Cruiser for years including subzero alpine situation and yet sold it in perfect condition. Key word here – I never drive hard until engine get worm enough. Manufacturer doing lots of silly things trying to make their cars bullet-proof purely because average buyer plainly stupid to take care of his/her car properly. For example in average they probably have more problem if people stupidly drive too hard cold engine with thick oil in it. At the same time manufactures have very little problem with premature wearing using thin oil. And what “premature” means here? 300K instead of 400K? But they do not care because it very much off warranty anyway! And we discussing exactly 300k v 400k here – new vehicles can use whatever as long as it in accordance with manufacture recommendation.
As for abuse, I like kindly pointed you that you first start to insult me suggesting to use gearbox oil in engine. Before this point I just state that I **PERSONALLY** found your POV strange – no more, no less. Or probably your definition of abusing differs dramatically depending if a person a member or not? Then I really start to wonder if I ever should became a member.
I do not like to continue this discussion – Penrite and I thinking in the same way and therefore I can easy by-pass your wisdom.
Regards and have a good Black Friday.

Sorry, no editing. OP was questioning about 240K car. IMHO old enough to be considered "older diesel"

Hi, Don't want to continue this debate too much but the comments about needing a thicker oil for "high loads" and "extreme conditions" isn't a necessity. All our heavy mining equipment runs on Castrol RX Super and these engines run at maximum HP, maximum revs and in stinking hot conditions for probably 70% of their total running time. Driving across the Simpson desert is not "extreme conditions" and your engine is hardly under "high loads" for more than probably 20% of the time. Most of heavy equip engines will get 15,000hrs between rebuilds (thats more than all but the oldest and most driven vehicles wil ever do).

Not saying that using the Penrite 20-60 is bad - I used to use it in my old TD Rodeo before I learnt more about diesel maint and care from working in the mining industry. I'm with Phil - a thinner (recommended oil) oil is better for all but the oldest and most worn engines that need thicker oil to hold oil pressure.

Thanks for the replies.
Not using any oil between changes. They are done religiously every 5000K along with the filter.
Maybe I just stick with the RX Super.

Cheers

HowardT

Mark,
They are all interesting and logical arguments, and with all this oil talk, theres rarely a wrong answer. Lets face it, its pretty hard to wear out the rings on a 1Hz if its regularly serviced with any diesel engine oil.

But Toyota recommend an API spec oil CD, CE, CF-4 and above, not a Jap spec oil.
Castrol recommend 7 different oils for the 1Hz and J-max is not one of them.
Caltex recommend 2 oils for the 1Hz and CXJ is not one of them.

So I go with what a famous LCOOLer (Norm Needham) has always said, and that is that any diesel oil of the Toyota recommended spec will do.

Cheers
Phil

Phil,

A sense of de-ja-vu here I think? I feel that we have had this debate once before.

I have several friends with Toyota diesels (mainly 1HZ) many of whom use the cheapest (reasonable) oil they can get...none of them have blown up to my knowledge. I guess I'm just a ?precautionist, if that's a word and feel that the information contained in the following threads seems to make sense.

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http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_oil-analysis-interpretation.JPG
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_pg1-caltex.JPG
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_pg2-caltex.JPG
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_pg3-caltex.JPG
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_pg4-caltex.JPG
http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/1HD-T_typical-80-series-oil-analysis.JPG

The oil that I use (Caltex CXJ) is, perhaps, slightly dearer than other oils that I may be able to source, but not much, and in the long term it MAY save me money on rebuild, so I'm prepared to shell out that little bit more ( a very small part of the overall runing costs of the car) on the basis of the above. If I'm majorly mistaken or if you can find any technical evidence or quality advice that suggests otherwise, I'm always open to change.

Cheers,

Mark

I agree with Mark
oils aint neccesarliy OIL

Hi Mark,
Yep deja-vu.....:-))) But its good fun to bring this up every so often (as long as no one gets serious about it, and I know you don't.

I think the 1990-1994 1HD-T big end issue is a bit old now and irrelevant to subsequent engines. Toyota replaced the big ends with a better bearing and the problem went away. These issues don't occur on any other Toyota motor.

I simply use the engine oils that both Toyota and the oil companies recommend. To do otherwise needs some good evidence, but we know its highly unlikely that you'll do any harm by using other oils of the correct viscosity.

Yep, agreed Phil. Certainly not worth getting all ruffled feathers about....I guess it's like many other things associated with cars/trucks/4WD's etc.....we do our own research and come up with what we think is the best compromise for our own circumstances. May not suit everyone.

I don't know whether you read the info on the Castrol jpg's but it certainly had me convinced that for these japanese engines with the lower set piston rings, that a higher sulphated ash content oil will cause less deposits and thus less wear. I tell you what, lets make a pact to discuss this again in about 10-15 years.....I will most likely still have the old 1HZ and by then it will have very high k's...not too sure how long you're keeping yours, but if yours blows up or requires a rebuild and mine doesn't, that'll prove me right..... ;-)

Happy touring....

Cheers,

Mark

Ps Thanks member No 1....at least someone believes me :-)

Mark,
Yep, keeping mine for a fair while yet. Its got 120k on the clock, and the new V8 won't tempt me.
1Hz vs the 1HD-FTE is probably an unfair contest - we all know the 1Hz goes forever :-)))

Cheers
phil

Norm,
Rimula X is for newer motors and Rimula D is for the older ones.

Rimula X is the old Myrena M (spelling) and the D is the old X.

Regards
Tour Boy

Max, this must be a very new development. I understood Penrite to be an independant Family Owned Australian business.

In fact their web site still says as much. Look at any of their overseas websites and they list the Australian office as Head Office.

I just checked the drum I have at the moment and it says 'Penrite is an Australian Company obsessessed with..... etc'.

So unless Shell bought them in the last couple of months and has kept it quiet, I think you might be mistaken.

Norm

Seniors moments are not unfamiliar - I shall go look at a pack in a shop before getting myself in deeper.

It was just a line on the back of their 5 litre packs late last year - I thought.

Red face
Max

Hi Max, I can not fault Valvoline oil as I have been using it since the 70's. We have used it in all types of vehicles from cars, 4x4's, log hallage trucks & tractors in extreme conditions also stationery engines on the land. I believe that its's how you personally service your vehicles & machinery that counts.
I currently run Valvoline in my 2006 Rodeo 3lt T/D.
Regards Ray.

Norm

Definitely a seniors moment - commonly known as a st**f up - I went into Repco today and looked at the back of every Penrite container and none of them said anything about Shell. I checked around the web sites like you had too. So I apologise to Penrite and anyone who took any notice of me.

But its still $1 a litre dearer than it used to and the Valvoline seems fine so I'll stick with it.

Oh well - you win some I guess
Cheers
Max

Takes a big man to admit he is wrong, good on you max
Cheers pete

Steve,

Please advise what are the signs/symptoms that the oil is breaking down so that I can keep an eye open for them in my 4WD?

Thanks
SC

Sorry for the late reply, I have been extremely busy.

I do 300 km per day, I can tell when the oil is breaking down as the performance of the truck degenerates.

This may seem weird as I can hear the difference, the engine has a what I call a grunge sound, I then check trip B on the speedo and sure enough It is ready for a service.

I put new oil in and the next day it drives and sounds better.

Cheers Steve.