Front or rear difflock ... choose only one.

Submitted: Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:16
ThreadID: 47668 Views:2888 Replies:12 FollowUps:14
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Here's you for you to advise me on.
I can only afford 1 difflock.
Should I get front or rear?
It will be some time before I can get the other, so I want to get as much traction assistant as possible.
Vehicle is GU Nissan 4.5l Petrol.
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Reply By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:26

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:26
Whilst I'm no expert on Ni$$ans, I would imagine that, given the GU has a reasonable rear LSD, that you would be better putting one in the front.....MAY be a different story with the poorer LSD in the Toyotas... I stand to be corrected however.

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:36

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:36
The diff lock most 4WDrivers talk about, and the one refered to in this article, is when its fitted to the front or rear axle of the vehicle. Its here that the mystic begins. A ‘normal’ differential transmits drive to both wheels equally when they receive equal traction, but when one wheel loses traction, the diff actually transmits more drive to that wheel. Hence you can become stuck in 2WD with only one wheel bogged. Similairly, when in 4WD you can be bogged with one front and one rear wheel without traction. So your 4WD is really only a 2WD, with one front and one rear wheel providing all forward momentum.

To overcome this limitation many vehicle manufacturers fit a limited slip differential (LSD) to the rear of most new 4WDs. A LSD is an improvement to the open differential but, as its name implies, it only provides limited drive to the wheel that has traction. To appreciate just how ‘limited’ the slip is, try the following test. With a vehicle fitted with a rear LSD, place an axle stand to lift one of its rear wheels off the ground and then chock both front wheels with a brick. The LSD will not provide enough torque to drive the vehicle over the brick (vehicle obviously in 2WD). If a diff lock was fitted then the vehicle would drive forward easily.

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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 11:46

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 11:46
Hi Doug,

Wonder who's article you cut and pasted that from ;)

Cheers mate

Captain
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:33

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:33
Captain
Does it really matter where I cut and pasted it from, all it does is saves me from typing something I alrady knew , like it saves time, but as you show some minute interest perhaps you should read the whole article, one never knows ....you might just learn something.....maybe

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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:41

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:41
Hi Doug,

I think you missed my cryptic comment, check out the author of the article and you may see Captain and the author are one and the same!!!

Cheers mate

Captain
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Follow Up By: GUPovertyPack - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:46

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:46
I wouldn't try this with a GU as the vehicle will move forward and off the wheel stands with a bump. The GU diff will slip only a very small amount before it locks up. Its design is very different from that of Toyota.

The general consensus around the club that I belong to is that with a GU in particular the diff lock should be placed in the front. To the extent that many people who could easily afford to put one in the back and one in the from opt to just put one in the front and leave the LDS in the rear.
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 13:25

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 13:25
Hi GUPovertyPack,

Sorry to dis-allusion you but the same thing happens with a GU!!! However, if you add a bit of pre-load (use the brakes - not handbrake on GU due to tailshaft handbrake) then you can get it to drive off. I know as I have tried it.

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 16:54

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 16:54
Captain
Uh Oh I've done it again, yeh I remember now you made a comment to me about the website once before a few weeks back, ....well old age gettin' at me ..lol.
well in that case you'll learn bugger all from your own website..

See ya
Doug
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:27

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:27
Have completed full filmed tests of that subject on Patrols and a front selectable diff is definately the way to go.

Articles in free 4wheelingsa mag

4wheelingoz.com

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:30

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:30
Winter 2005 edition
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 10:39

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 10:39
to sumerize it showed conclusivly a nissan Patrol benifits by no small margine a front locker out performs a rear
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:29

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:29
You answered your own question really when you say as quote :I want to get as much traction assistant as possible:
Which Diff does the most work ????
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:32

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:32
Have a look at the Diff Lock links in my 4x4 webpage

www.doug-and-dusty.id.au/4X4.htm
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Follow Up By: KSV- Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:46

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:46
You have nice collection of links on your website! Thanks for pointing. I have red referenced difflock info before, but found interesting info about engine braking system.
Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:46

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:46
Limited slip diffs should work very well, if they don't then you mad need some adjustment or oil change. I would always leave the lsd alone and put in a front locker only. Why do you think you will need one ? There are lots of ways to get improved traction (eg. adjust tyre pressure and driving techniques). Can you give us some info on where you may want to use the diff lock.
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Reply By: Rod W - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:54

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:54
Go the front.
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Reply By: Member - Karl - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:56

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 09:56
I have a Lokka brand in the rear diff of my 91 GXL 80 Series, it is an automatic one not an air operated one.

You did not say what type you are looking at, as this maybe helpful.

The reason I put one in the rear because of the steering issue. A diff lock makes steering a lot harder and IMHO I didn't want to have to fight the steering as I am driving a long a track or battling an obstacle.

With an air operated one this is less of an issue because you can turn it on & off as required and therefore wouldn't need it as you were driving, which would be the case with an auto type diff locker - the minute you engage the free wheeling hubs the locker becomes engaged and would affect your steering.

The problem is then cost, air operated ones are far more expensive than automated ones, so you have to make up your mind which way to go.

In my case as I could only afford the Lokka brand so I put it in the rear diff - it stills affects the steering (in the rear it pushes rather than pulls if fitted to the front), but not as bad as it would have if I put it in the front diff, but after a while you get used to it and you adjust your driving accordingly.

Also another issue for me - though not one for you - is that if I wanted to put it in the front diff I would have had to convert it to a part time four wheel drive as the 80 Series is a constant 4 wheel drive - an extra cost that I didn't need at the time.

Hope this helps.

Karl
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Reply By: Voxson - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 11:45

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 11:45
Keep the rear LSD setup and put the locker in the front..
When you are climbing quite often the pulling ability is better the the pushing ability...
You can do this for as little as $700 by installing a "lockrite lokka" in the front..
I had one for years in my last GU and it was almost unstoppable...
I say "almost" because we found mud one day....
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Reply By: Pezza (Bris) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 14:31

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 14:31
Best answer so far is by Voxson, only thing I'll add is get your Limited slip tightened by around 30% if you want a bit more traction, as good as the rear 'slippery' is in the Nissan a bit of help never hurts.

Cheers
Pezza
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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 17:32

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 17:32
G'day Pezza, at risk of sounding stoopid, how do you adjust them? or is it a job for the experts?

Cheers Stefan
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Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 18:58

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 18:58
Hey Stefan,
No such thing as a stoopid question mate.
A limited slip works via "clutch plates" (let's call them friction plates) inside your diff housing, either side of the centre of the diff, the more power applied into the diff via the drive shaft ie. putting your foot down, the more pressure is applied to the friction plates forcing the plates together, much like releasing the clutch when you drive off but in reverse (they're pushed together rather than being clamped together by a pressure plate on release of your pedal) unlike your clutch plate these friction plates operate in a bath of diff oil therefore never really locking up like your clutch but always having a certain amount of slip, ie. limited slip.
The mechanism pushing the plates together only moves so far no matter how much power is supplied, therefore only putting a certain amount of pressure onto the friction plates, by "tightening up the diff" they put an extra spacer plate at the end of the line of friction plates, by doing so they're closing the gap between the plates marginally so when the same amount of pressure is applied the plates are pushed together more tightly as they they have less distance, or room to be compressed in.
Hope all this makes sense, I'm not real good at explaining technical things, I know how they work but always seem to have trouble putting it into words :-)))
And, yes, it is a job for the experts.

Cheers Mate
Pezza

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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Saturday, Jul 14, 2007 at 09:07

Saturday, Jul 14, 2007 at 09:07
Thanks Pezza, makes perfect sense and sounds like its on the wish list ;)

Cheers Stefan
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Reply By: ozwasp - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 14:39

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 14:39
For a part time 4wd they say that the front difflock is best

Cheers, Will
AnswerID: 252214

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 22:02

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 22:02
front...why...because your nissan has such a good rear lsd, and you said you want max benefit...so on road, you have no effect what so ever, and off road you wont stop it...added to that, you can maintain c/v joints and wheel bearings and brakes in the same operation...
AnswerID: 252282

Reply By: lc_120man - Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 23:50

Friday, Jul 13, 2007 at 23:50
As others said, for GU locker for the front...
With Yota it would of been at the rear...
AnswerID: 252291

Reply By: westozal - Saturday, Jul 14, 2007 at 12:23

Saturday, Jul 14, 2007 at 12:23
Hello,
I went thru the same thoughts as you but with a Maverick which as we all know is a Nissan clone. I put a Detroit Locker in the front and that combined with the strong standard rear LSD worked well for me.
I have a 1996 80 series which now has an air locker in the rear due to toyota LSD diffs being crap (in my opinion).
My suggestion is therefore front in a Nissan, back in a Toyota if only going one locker.
Hope this helps
Alan.
AnswerID: 252328

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