5th Gear Towing again

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 08:21
ThreadID: 48689 Views:3844 Replies:11 FollowUps:25
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I know we have all been down this 5th gear towing debate before, what I will say is that I have just come across the Nullabor with the 20ft van on and was in 5th probably 96% of the drive to Pt Augusta, What I will add is this, I noticed that my right foot was only about 1/2 " down on the pedal, the vehile seemed to be rolling along without any hard work until I got a head breeze East of Ceduna, it was then on some sections and uphill runs I dropped it down to 4th, What I did notice was that it seemed to roll along easier with the Van on in 5th at 75/80kph than it does in 5th with the Oversize sign up and trying to maintain 90/95kph, It is amazing just how much the sign can knock the performance,and of course the vehicle had done 575,000 + before the gearbox was overhauled and 676,000 before the Transfer Case was rebuilt so basicly I cannot see what all the fuss is about concerning 5th gear towing, I think it is harder on the drive train with the sign up than what it is towing, and I know if any other truckies read this they will agree, when you have more weight on a combination the better it rolls, and of course a gearbox is there for a reason, as soon as you feel the engine begin to work you drop down a gear , what I mean is you don't try to drive up a just to see how far it will get in a gear but I guess there will be some who would try to drive Cunninghams Gap in 4th,
This is just My opinion, remember that, any know-alls can do what they like.
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Reply By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 08:54

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 08:54
Have to agree with you Doug. Do just about all my towing in "D" in the auto, 5th in the old manual. Change down before it starts to work hard.
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Reply By: Wizard1 - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 08:56

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 08:56
I too can't see what all the hoodoo is about towing in 5th either. However I guess you need to put things in perspective. The pervailing winds may have had a little to do with your effortless towing in 5th gear. I've towed a van east to west and had head winds almost the entire way and ceratianly couldn't tow in 5th even if I wanted to.

As an example, 2 years ago travelled to Adelaide via Hay to Mildura with a horrible stinking hot north westernly, lucky to manage 80 kph in 4th. Last year, perfect weather, managed 100 kph in 5th with the cruise on. So don't be fooled by the drive you just did.

By the way, I tow up Cunninghams gap in 4th and I only have a Prado TD towing a 16 ft 1600 kg Jayco. I've done it more than once to. When coming from the south the only reason I slow down is the speed sign tells me to.

Mind you climb up the range to Toowoomba is a another story.


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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:22

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:22
There's your magic....TD
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Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:12

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:12
Doug,

I've recently fitted a mandrel 2 2/4 inch exhaust with a 3" dump pipe. Towed the van down to Byron last weekend, effortless cruising at 100 kph in 5th along the M1.

Had to back off when approaching the 80 KPH speed camera on the hill at Tweed Heads.

A motorcycle got a bit of a surprise as I passed him climbing the hill out of Coolooangatta towards Tugin. He's crusing along until I pulled level with him and still accelerating.

I'll wait to see how she handles Cunningham's Gap now. I might try the range climb again just to see how much difference its made.
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:44

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:44
Wizard1,
Now you have me interested in how the Prado went up the Toowoomba range.

I have the identical van and the 2007 D4D just interested in your comments on Towoomba range and what model do you have?

Pedro
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Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 at 08:53

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 at 08:53
Peter,

We have a 2002 95 series manual. Last year we went up the range towing the Jayco and the car loaded up as well.

This was before the exhaust mod, and the only mod was the Dtronic. Ended up down the second gear atbthe steepest section, probably 40 kph tops for a while, but she just kept going. The transit from Tenterfield to Casino was much of the same in some parts

But if I give it another shot I'll let you know if there is any improvement.
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Reply By: barney rubble - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:02

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:02
Gday whilst im sure many will disagree with you comments i reckon you have nailed it its simply all about driving to suit the load and the tow vehicle engine
while my nissan wouldnt be happy in 5th at 75/80km towing she does ask for 5th over 100km and loves it cheers
AnswerID: 257172

Reply By: Member - Kiwi B - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:21

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:21
Doug,

My thoughts exactly. I've never understood the apparent "power-annoya" involved in the "thou shalt not tow in 5th" mindset.

There's a degree of common sense to be applied.

It's sort of along the lines of not towing a trailer/caravan with a car based on tow vehicle weight. How heavy are the prime movers you guide in relation to the loads involved, 8-10%??

Would all make for some pretty serious campfire discussion over a few rums?? The sun would be rising and still no consensus.

Good trippin'
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:40

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:40
You said it! Out loud!

I knew someone would.

Now go and sit in the corner and have a good look at yourself.

What makes you think that you can bring "common sense" into a discussion like this and get away with it.

Don't you know that common sense has been outlawed?

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi B - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 12:55

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 12:55
Duncs,

Has "C/S" been outlawed or totally eradicated by the outspoken.

Apologies fer swearing here. Lucky to get it posted I guess!!

Ouch, jis bit me tongue.
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:20

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:20
Bruce,

I believe it is all but totally eradicated. Thankfully there are a couple of old blokes who keep a little bit tucked away for special occasions.

Duncs

Managed to get through without actually saying common sense. Ooops it slipped out, sorry.
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Reply By: Member - Karl - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:23

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:23
I agree too. I normally tow in 5th gear but drop back the gears as the driving conditions dictate. I tow a campertrailer and never have any problems with it.

Incidentally a couple of weeks ago I was towing my campertrailer up Greenmount (here in Perth) in 4th gear sitting on 80 km/h and I cruised past a GU Patrol with a 6.5L Chev (unloaded) - I loved the look on his face - and I still had room to accelerate as required to overtake other traffic.

Must admit he did finally catch me - but then I had slowed down anyway as I was turning :-)))

I think the lesson / advice is that you must drive to the conditions.

Karl
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:25

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:25
Read the bit about the 6.5L Chev (unloaded) Karl your a stirrer. ....good one mate
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:58

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:58
Karl
I will also add that I run 265/70R/16 tyres instead of 265/75R/16 thus it gives my 5th gear a little lower in ratio and making it easier on the motor ,
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Reply By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:41

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 09:41
"I know we have all been down this 5th gear towing debate before"

get an auto and it wont be an issue
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 11:04

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 11:04
Hello No 1
You better mind your Ps & Qs .....I'm in SA so look out
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:13

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:13
That would be great Doug...but you didnt need to come all this way just to shout me lunch...thanks

what time you picking me up toomorrow then...12noon ?

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:26

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:26
Member No 1
In the main street at Sun-up ....Make your play Pardner
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:27

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:27
Member No 1
In the main street at Sun-up ....Make your play Pardner
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:30

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 13:30
sun up?...geezus doug, i dont eat breakfast...besides i dont like drinking till at least 10am
make it lunch will Ya!
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 17:41

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 17:41
Damn it I knew it ...ya yella, a coward , scared of dyin' that's why I stopped of at Jamestown because I knew you wouldn't show up ,so I will let ya off this time

Oh what a silly pair we are , hey it's gonna be a cold one here tonight i bet
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:18

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:18
Jamestown is where my great grandfather and grandad and is from
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:33

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:33
Damn it, then I better watch my back then
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael J (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:55

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:55
Doug, you stopped off at Jamestown.......when?? and just what is your excuse for not calling in???????

Cheers
Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:03

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:03
Michael
Your Manderins are sour, the oranges Mouldy, ...umm Banana's are well priced...considering....lol
my bill came to $40.27 and the service was great , see you in the morning, I'm in the Caravan Park
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael J (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:09

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:09
Sorry I missed ya, was in the big smoke all day today...

Coffee in the shop tomorrow mate, any time after 7am.........

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:12

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 21:12
Michael
Check your members messages
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:07

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:07
Here is what I do and I have no tests (other then fuel consumption) to say if my idea is valid or not.

When loaded and going driving a long easy down-hill run take all feet of and see if the vehicle wants to 'run away' or has a natural speed that it seems to hold at all by itself. I note this speed as that is what I cruise at in top gear on the flat. If I want to go faster then my 'cruise' speed then I will need to use the gears more often and will have a higher fuel consumption.

This probably won't apply to all rigs but I have definitely found that in holiday mode (no rush) in big camper vehicles in the USA I got a lot better fuel consumption and no overheating that others have had with the same vehicle. If a speedy trip is required ignore the above
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 11:02

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 11:02
I think I might just ignore the whole post
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Reply By: T-Ribby - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:19

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:19
On a recent towing trip west on the Warrego highway Qld, I noticed that my petrol V6 auto in overdrive (5th gear) was hunting a lot between the gears and the rev counter was going up and down like a bride's nightie, so I took it off overdrive and the rev counter settled down to about 2600 and stayed there over most of the rolling country, so it's horses for courses, or revs for roads with my beast.
cheers
T-Rib
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Reply By: Rock Ape - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:57

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 18:57
Doug,

Good to see you are travelling round and enjoying yourselves.

5th bloody gear, well you hit the nail on the head, you know not to push it and just peddle it along. Trouble is it is a weak add on gear on most manual 4bys, a lot of people just stick it in OD and drive up hill and down dale.

Can't understand why the oversize sign is giving you trouble. I thought you would be tailgating the oversize and getting a tow as well.

Have had some nasty accidents up here so have a safe one

The Ape
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Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 19:16

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 19:16
Hi Doug,
Up in the Territory most cruiser owners who spend their lives driving at 130/140, which is pretty much flat out,don't seem to have g/box issues.
Doing 90/100 with the caravan on, still flat out, should be if anything, easier on the g/box, cos it's not turning at high speed's.
lets face it, standard 1HZ,at 100/110 doesn't have a lot left.
Your observation with sign up compared to towing,in my mind is a direct consequence of wind resistance and its ability to quickly ramp up as speed increases,that's why there is a noticeable difference with the amount of power you need maintain speed.
The physics of wind resistance has been posted here before and it is quite remarkable how much power it saps as speed increases
I let my cruiser pull down to 85 (in 5TH)because in most instances you will lose 5/10 kms as soon as you put your foot on the clutch,and besides it still is within the motors torque range.
IMHO finding balance between how fast you want to go,compared to how hard you are prepared to push.
Shane
AnswerID: 257256

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:01

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:01
Shane
What I do and how I do it probably comes from driving trucks and getting the most from them at the same time being gentle and conservative
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 at 18:14

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 at 18:14
DITTO
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Reply By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:02

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:02
Don't tow a van just a beeping horse float, but as said in the initial post once up to cruising speed 5th gear makes no difference at all. The weight and momentum of the vehicle will ease the drag caused by the weight and thus the strain on the gear box. Same principal as with a ship I guess. Have to change down or flick of the overdrive switch if needed, such as overtaking slow moving vans in 4th gear or steep hills or using the gears for breaking.
BTW the missus got busted for speeding towing the float up Greenmount Hill.
Dunc
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Follow Up By: jacki - Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:34

Tuesday, Aug 14, 2007 at 20:34
Have towed 19' 3 ton off road van with L/C TD Auto found best cruising speed on tar in D is approx 95 (1800 rpm) fuel 18L/100 average over approx 20000 K .Think a lot try to sit on to low a speed in O/D this is why all the problems. If your auto is hunting at 85 you have a right foot use it .Dirt road is another thing drive to conditions with a light foot and you'll find not much difference in fuel consumption.

Jacki

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