Proprietary Knowledge - Personel Loan

Does that mean you've put the finger on the button?

Agree with Roachie BTW

Roachie

You've got my money, and now your charging for the profits!

Don't have a problem with providing the basic requirements, which I did.

However, I'm not going to the level of detail required by this particular Bank.

Plenty of other opportuniies out there.

Regards

Kim

Kim, can you clear up my confusion.....?

Are you applying for the PL from the same bank you always deal with? They should/would already have your statement info (of course).

However, if you are applying to another bank, they would want to see your statement/s , if for no other reason than to check whether you operate it in a "good" manner. For a banker, it's a dead-set give-away to look at some-ones statements of another bank's account and see that you have been overdrawing and/or having your cheques bounced etc etc.

An old saying, "if you've got nothing to hide, you hide nothing". I hope you don't think that the bank staff are gunna blab around town about how much money you have/don't have. Bankers couldn't care less .....it's all just numbers on paper to us. It'd be like the butcher going to the pub and talking to his mates about what cuts of meat you buy......he really couldn't care.

However, in the end it's your choice (of course) and there will be another bank very willing to help you .....maybe without the need to supply your vital statistics.......

Roachie

I'm not going to get into a lot of detail on a public forum, other than to say this level of encrouchment by a bank is uncalled for.

I've got no problem with a lending house determining a commercial or personal risk. However, in this particular case it's uncalled for.

Very small loan. Complete bloody nonsense and they've loss my business.

Regards

Kim

Bugger me Roachie. I read your name after I read your post .
Sir, The Missus and I have no credit record. Mistake, apparently, on our part..
When we bought the Sat phone, the interrogation was, for me personally, far more invasive than a prostate tickle-up.(A housing loan in six figures in the 1980s was totally benign, cf today's screening concerning a three figure sum Eh? WTF? When WAS the hand-over? And were we asked about this transition? Or was I simply" tired and emotional" at the critical moment?)

Today, when we were finally suckered in to a mobile phone contract, that same invasive inquisition was thrust upon us, so I left it to The Lady.
Fair suck of the sav, Sir Roach: what has my dog's maiden aunt's name got to do with my ability to fulfill a $500 obligation?

And as for your question re 'What do I have to hide'?
Well what about you Buddy. Care to flash your details of passport, driver's licence, service number, rates notice, as colateral?
Good.
How about Account details? Care to expose those also?

How come the oh-so-poorly paid Executives can't sort the grain from the chaff? How come a pair of Derros like me partner 'n me get screened just like the Real People?

Sorry Mr Banker, finance(like Federal politics), sucks.More and more , with each passing day.

Having exposed my fossilised feelings toward our present , corrupted (in my opinion),economic procedures, you must understand that Lay-de-loosie did hint at your profession in a recent flag raising ceremony, (pre dawn: but borne of necessity, as I read it) [maybe more flag leaving than flag raising?]

Roachie: away from the general and back to the personal.
Thanks for your earlier advice, and hope the Hydrogen links prove interesting.You're welcome to drop in any time you're in our area.(And NO, I don't need a loan.Thank you kindly)
Jeff

Jeff

Fair dinkum mate, I'm still laughing. Next time I've got a log to roll, you'll be my mouth piece. Good stuff.

LOL

Regards

Kim

Get stuffed. This is serious.
Mr Phred.

G'day Jeff,
Sorry, I seem to have struck a raw nerve there with you mate.... I'm not sure how, but nevertheless I will apologise here and now, publically for whatever it is I have said that has offended you.

I have no problem providing ANY of my personal details to anybody from whom I am trying to obtain some sort of service. If they get too personal for my liking, then I too tell them to get stuffed. I would include in that, things like how many nookies I have per day/week/month etc.......I can see that such info would have nothing to do with them giving me a loan, mobile phone contract or whatever.

I love watching those idiots on shows like A Current Affair, who, having just been sold-up by their Bank, get on national tv and say how they were "placed" into this unfortunate position by the nasty bank. If I could sit in front of such people, I would say to them....."you tell me the name of the bank manager/loans officer who either held a gun to your head (or tricked you) into signing-up for that loan (which would have only been made available based on info which he/she provided) and I will personally give them a punch in the nose on your behalf. You see, the fact is, we are all responsible for our own actions (or at least we should be).

Nobody forces anybody into taking out a loan, contract or whatever. If you want a loan (satphone contract etc), then you have the right to accept or reject such a loan offer once you know the "price" of such a loan. That "price" includes the fees and interest, as well as how much of your personal info the lender wants to know. Likewise, the lender has the right to decide what info they require. If their level of info is considered by the potential borrower to be too invasive, then that borrower can obviously decide to go elsewhere. Too easy.

I'm not even sure why you've lashed out at me like you have, with all this "Sir Roach" stuff and calling me "buddy". Mate, I'm not anybody's "buddy"; that's for sure!!!!

I'm gunna POQ to bed now and I suggest you take a chill pill and cease with the personal attacks, mate (please).

Cheers and good luck with the satphone contract or whatever it is that's giving you grief.

Roachie

Roachie,
My apologies that you felt that my comments were directed to you, personally, because they were most emphatically not!
You have never struck a raw nerve with me,(on the contrary) and apart from this minor glitch(who said oil spills???), I would prefer to consider you as one of the more genteel of the current membership
I've gone public on this one Roachie, simply because the MM is enjoying hiccups once again, and, well: stuffit. it needs resolving pretty quick.
You run this lot by Lucy
If Lay-de-Loosie reckons fukumkillum, then so be it.
Jeff.

For the mobile phones some of that info is to enable them to find you and throw you in the slammer our out of the country when you give your phone to your wife's second cousin and he has it with him when he tries to blow up Glasgow Airport.

Gerhardp

I went to the bank with everything they requested. I think your missing the point.

Regards

Kim

I admit to being confused.

Why wouldn't you just go to your regular bank?

If I was the prospective lender, I would want to know that you can pay the loan back.

After all, you might have just lost a fortune on the stock market, which crashed because of excessive low doc loans issued in the US. Banks are understandably a bit loath to rush out and lend willy nilly right now, and have the right to ask for more info than they may have done a few weeks ago.

So if you are indignant about them wanting to see a bank statement which was not previously requested, get over it.

As mentioned above, if you want your prostate checked, be prepared to bare your ass like everyone else.

why wouldnt you go to your noemal bank????
well that was the mistake i made when going for my 2nd
(yes 2nd) home loan after paying my first off in 5 years
The pr!!cks knocked me back ! couldnt believe it. It took alot of negotiation to change there minds and now after less than 18 months the loan is 1/2 paid off
Anyone that says banks loan money too easily has obviosly never had a loan

Davoe, the problem is they don't make enough money out of you - they hate it when you pay a loan back quickly.

They also like to match assets with liabilities - they will borrow $x million for say 25 years overseas, and then lend it to people for a term of 25 years, thereby matching the term of the asset with their liability.

When you pay it back in less than the contracted term, it mucks up their balance - after 5 years, they'll have to re-lend your part to someone for 20 years.

Not difficult to do using computers, but they get annoyed jstt the same.

I'm involved in treasury operations for a bank (that'll open a can of worms) and the statement is mostly incorrect. Yes banks and others tap into capital markets offshore as it can be a cheaper source of funding for all concerned. It certainly isn't for tenors of 25 years....

A client paying back the loan earlier is of little consequence from a funding perspective for a bank as our funding is not managed at such a micro level (individual loans).

C'mon Shaker,
We both know that doesn't Really apply. Look at the present share market. Simplistically perhaps, but it seems to me that Yanks offered loans on loan deposits on housing.
What sort of finance checks were in place then?

Or are Yanks just plain stupid? (That, obviously, was rhetorical)

(Retraction: SOME Yanks appear to be plain stupid.[Now why does the name "George" spring to mind?])

The point that was being aired* was, roughly, this:
Mate, I need a quid,short time only. Here's my ID. All ok? fine.
* My assumption.
Shaker, the phone contract signed by The Lady this morning is worth less than $500.
Nothing up front - except all your personal details.Pppffrrrrtt.
So a lot of our data is in the ether, (yet again).
I would have been sweet with chucking 250x$2 coins over the counter, so it's all bid, done settled..... and paid for up front.
But no, can't do bank cheque. May bounce! And most certainly cannot do Cash , Mr Phred!!
Mate, through no fault on my behalf, we enjoy a debt free (to Banks or society) existence.
And to bare my financial arse to simply purchase a Fff. phone, shows just how sick Western Governments have become.
Time out, eh. Next.
Jeff.

Jeff, bank cheques can bounce ? Thats news to me mate. I always thought they were as good as cash ?

Mind you the way the markets are at the moment, there are certainly a few institutions bouncing around.

Banks cheques take the same time to clear as a personal cheque, & unbelievably 'stop payment' can also be applied to them.

I don't think any cheque should be able to be stopped, unless both parties agree, as far as I'm concerned anybody that stops a cheque is a coward.

Bank Cheques are NOT the same as personal cheques but nor are they the as good as cash.

Pretty much , unless they have been stolen, lost or are fraudently altered then they cant be stopped.

You cant stop a Bank Cheque because someone has changed their mind.

Sorry, but as a Yacht Broker we deal with bank cheques on a daily basis, a bank cheque:

A. Takes exactly the same time as a personal cheque to be cleared.

B. Can be stopped without the knowledge of the payee.


C. Offer little or no security until they have been cleared, never deliver goods on an uncleared bank cheque!

Sorry, after spending 15 years in the legal dept of a Bank dealing with THOUSANDS of Bank Cheques EVERYDAY . . .

I can ASSURE you there are very FEW reasons for stopping a bank cheque.

They are:

Lost
Stolen
Fraundently Altered
Court Order preventing payment.

Thats it.

Changing your mind is not a valid reason for stopping a Bank cheque and can easily be challenged in Court if needed.

Problem is . . . . with there being a huge amount of junior staff in Bank Branches dont often know the rules themselves and bank cheques get mistakenly stopped.

It was MY job to deal with those situations.

Circumstances in which a financial institution cheque might not be paid

The limited grounds on which any financial institution cheque, including a bank cheque, may be dishonoured are where:

the cheque is counterfeit or has been forged;
the cheque has been materially altered;
the cheque has been reported lost or stolen and is subsequently presented for payment by or on behalf of someone who has no title to it;
the cheque is the subject of a court order restraining payment, or
the consideration for the issue of the cheque has failed (ie, the financial institution did not receive payment for issuing the cheque) and, either:

(i) the holder of the financial institution cheque has not given value for it; or

(ii) if the holder has given value for the cheque, the holder knew at the time of giving value that the consideration for the issue of the cheque has or would fail.

http://www.apca.com.au/Public/apca01_live.nsf/WebPageDisplay/Payment_Cheques_Info

You hit the nail right on the head, bank staff are ill educated when it comes to dealing with cheques both bank cheques & personal.

I know of several instances where bank cheques have been stopped due to nothing more than buyer's remorse!
They just tell the bank that there is an irregularity in the deal & bang ..... it's stopped!

I have also had a few heated discussions with bank staff when they insist on ID when cashing a cheque with "or bearer" left open. I just say that their clients instructions to them is to pay EITHER the payee or the bearer, & the fact that I am standing there with the cheque in my hand, I am in fact, 'the bearer'.

Seems like Jeff you have no real appreciation of what is required for getting a loan so argument is fruitless.

Apparently Jeff you didn't realise that Australia is one of the countries that has a link for the "pay as you go" phone card that provides the security that isn't available in a lot of others. Find a SIM card and you know who they called, where they were and when. That is a lot more for Australia's security than you realise. A SIM card with no registered owner is very useful to bombers. Not that we expect your wife will be a bomber but at least there is a trail to the owner if she was to give it away.

LOL you're on a roll tonight :)))

Sorry I missed the issue with your tyres?
Can you please explain it again?

Hello Hairy

I will have a go .

If a bank is careful as to who it lends money it will have fewer defaults in loan repayments . If it has fewer defaults , it can lend its money at a cheaper rate and still make an acceptable profit . If a bank can lend money at a cheaper rate than other banks then it takes business from them and makes even more profit .

As Roachie said , for Kim to want to borrow money from a different bank than his own would ring alarm bells . Checking his bank statement would be one of the best ways of deciding if he was a good risk or a bad risk .

Credit checks are a cost to a bank and they only do them because they are necessary to avoid defaults . They can't ' on sell ' the information to defray the cost .

As other respondents have stated , ' if you don't have anything to hide , why object ' .

Small loans are big business for banks and they have to keep defaults low to avoid big losses .

Like Kim , we naturally get exasperated by the bother and prying nature of credit checks , but we need to remember that the more careful a bank is the cheaper the loan will be .

Hmmm.... So you don't think it's because they're a bunch of greedy, money grabbing bastards who are out to squeeze every cent they can from people and don't give a toss for anything or anyone but profits, then?

Mike Harding

Rotord........Credit checks are only good at pointing out "bad" borrowers. EG: if you default on a loan or don't pay your phone bill etc etc, then you'll get an adverse credit rating. However, you could have 100 loans over a 30 year period and if you paid them all on time with no defaults etc, there is no "good" record put up on the system to say that "John and Mary borrowed $50,000- over 10 years and they paid it off in 7 years....they are good borrowers"....NUP, Nuffin like that.

Mike...... Your thoughts and comments are quite common in the community. Like I said above, nobody (that I know of) has ever held a gun to somebody else's head and said "you get into that bank/credit union etc and open an account". Mate, if you want an account at a Bank, go and open one. If you don't want a bank account, don't open one! Yes, it really IS that easy. Now, you might say that you MUST have a bank account in order to receive your Social Security Pension, wages, etc etc. Fair enough; maybe you do.......Gee it's a shame we don't have about 100 different institutions to choose from, isn't it??? Oh, hang-on a minute.... we DO have about 100 institutions to choose from. Every one of those institutions will happily tell you what fees they will charge you for their products.....just like Woolies and Coles will let you know how much they will charge you for THEIR products when you go shopping in their store. I fail to see the difference.

Now, the other issue you mention is the profits the banks make. True, they are BIG $$$$ figures. However, I would like to ask you to remember 2 issues:

1). The Banks pay huge sums of money to the ATO (they wouldn't dare try to scam a tax dodge for fear of going to jail).
2). Think of the profits in terms of the size of the business (es):

To help you with this........If you came to me with $1m to invest and I said to you, "no worries Mike, I will invest your $1m and I'll make sure you get a return of about $20,000- per annum". Well I reckon you'd give me the bird and then quickly take off to talk to another funds manager. Well, the ratio I mentioned there is about what the Bank(s)' return on equity is. In other words, for a bank to earn $4bn a year in profit, they have an absolute TRUCK-LOAD of money invested.......
I'm probably "talking" to a brick wall, so I'll give up now while I'm behind!!!

>I'm probably "talking" to a brick wall, so I'll give up now while I'm behind!!!

What? Trying to convince us that banks have a social conscience? You'll be trying to tell us that drug companies (or, indeed, banks) give a toss about their escapades in the Third World next.

Mike Harding

Geez Roachie, i think you must have stirred the NINJAS in these blokes to get them offside. Some deserve to go to the LowDoc lenders I think.

I used to go to the bank even with a budget quoting the monthly payments as per my calculations for the machinery cost. It is a lot easier to get what you need if banks actually know you can pay the money back. As a shareholder to a couple of them, I say fair enough too.

Borrowers have to expect to have social responsibility too. I know people that borrow and not like to return items - books to post hole diggers included, as well as money.

Oh, by the way a NINJA is
NI = No Income
NJ = No Job
A = No Assets

If I was a lender, I would want to know I was going to get the momney back too

Perhaps the banks are just "misunderstood"?

----------------------
Recently, the big five High Street lenders (RBS, HSBC, HBOS, Lloyds and Barclays) finally admitted just how much they had been paying out in "goodwill" payments to customers demanding a refund of their overdraft charges - a whopping £399m in the first half of this year alone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6955437.stm

----------------------

Check the other links on the page too - UK banks are in serious trouble over excess charges. Oz banks have similar charge structures - perhaps Roachie would care to justify them?

Mike Harding

Ex Oz converted the UK pound sign to $ - they have paid UKP399M or about A$1 billion in "goodwill".

Mike Harding

Footyl,
A clear case of bad timing.If we hadn't enjoyed an inquisition at the hands of a phone company yesterday morning, the original post would have sailed by me, no harm done.
Between our culture of greed and officially sanctioned climate of fear, I get irrationally fragile at times.

Again, my apologies to those offended.
Jeff H.

Jeff, I didn't see anything that anyone should have taken offence at.
We can all be a bit fragile at times, mate. I spent 35 years being a fragile worker..I just didn't realize it at the time so I got out.
Now only my finances are fragile :)))))

Gidday Footloose

Bloody hell, I'm never going to touch this sacred cow again.

Regards

Kim

Hi Kim, contentious issues are my speciality. I can post something I think is innocent and overnight there are thousands of people who don't just want my blood, they want me hung, drawn and quartered!
I've learned that some people just want to argue, it makes them feel better to see someone deeper in the doo doo than they are with the missus or work or whatever.
Don't sweat it, we're all different.

Ha Ha

And some must just like to see there own typing on the small screen... LOL

;-)

I'm still wondering what the issue with his tyres is??? :-)

Tyres? What Tyres John?
The bloody wheels have fallen off, and you keep on about these flamin tyres.
Crikey mate, gimme a clue an I'll make up a yarn.
(Bloody tyres).
hahaha, you got to love it , eh.
Jeff.
(ps. or someone who heard it from a mate will offer the gospel truth.) jh.

Gidday Matt

I deal with two banks. One has a cheaper interest rate than the other.

As with all banks, I was asked to bring along a number of documents and provide verbal information. Which I did.

At the very end of the meeting (as I was leaving) they requested a copy of my statement with the other bank.

Like most other people I've had a variety of loans to support my 4wd interest. During the years I've never been asked to produce a bank statement.

I find this level of scrutiny invasive, particularly when I have an excellent record with both banks. Both of them know more about me than I do.

Perhaps I'm being a girls blouse, but I'm getting a bit sick of this sort of crap.

As a member mentioned above, I also purchase a new mobile phone last week. I had to go through the same bull tish as he did.

It's no wonder a man go's bush.

Grumpy Kim

Did you read my follow up? How clear do I have to make it!

This post is becoming ridiculous.

Regards

Kim

Gidday Jeff

No offence taken mate. The dog tell's me to get stuffed every day. All we now need is a script writer, then neither you or I will have to go to a bloody bank ever again!

Have a good week

Regards


Kim

Come on Brian keep up with it man,
Kim is after a loan of unspecified amount, Jeff has a <$500 phone contract, John has lost a tyre or two, the Queensland flag is some ware in Austria (and lets hope it finds some good beer to bring back and they can get rid of XXXX)
And the reason for Kim's loan, Jeff's phone contract and John loosing his tyres is they are all out to get a Hiclone, Fitch system fitted to there cars.

Regards

Stephen.

Stephen my tyres are good, no problem with them, I actually know where each one is located. ;-)

Nice one Stephen! LOL!

Anyone wanna buy a mobile phone or some tyres?

Ron