holes in pistons
Submitted: Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 09:18
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x-man
Had a mtq turbo installed on my 99 hilux diesel 3ltr 5L nine thousand k's ago and three piston stuffed. one with hole straight through crown and two more about to go. Pulling engine apart found that fuel pump had not been adjusted sent injectors and pump into be tested and all ok. no visible damage to turbo internally. Called place where i got turbo installed and they said that it had been tuned. fuel, pyro etc. but as i am finding they hadn't. Was just driving along and car reved right up white smoke bellowed out exhaust. just wondering what would have caused so much damage to pistons? whether the place where it was installed have a responisilty to pay for damage caused? any help greatly appreciated. thanks
Reply By: Ozboc - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 10:41
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 10:41
HI there , sorry to hear about your misfortune , Im guessing you had pulled the engine apart ? This may be a problem if your trying to claim any type of warranty as the installer is not able to inspect the car and settings and then pull down themselves .....
was there any warranty terms specified on the invoice they provided?
Boc
AnswerID:
257902
Follow Up By: x-man - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:11
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:11
Had a diesel mechanic pull it apart. took picture as each major part removed. Have spoken to people who installed it and they say they followed turbo manufactures spec's but apparantly didn't. quite frustrating cause it had been checked over again since install for turbo warranty purposes by same people who installed and didnt pick up on anything then. Wondering whether turbo was boosted up cause there was a power increase when installed however fuel never touched. still running as factory set.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 11:42
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 11:42
Hi mate, sorry to hear about it.
Usually over fuelling will cause this in a turboed vehicle or if the pump had the pressure wound up and the injectors not replaced, a previously dribbling injector becomes a weak sort of an oxy and over time holes in pistons occur.
good luck with it, try fair trading, if they (the installer) don't have reports on your vehicle and it's settings you may get warranty.
Regards
Dave
AnswerID:
257908
Follow Up By: x-man - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:26
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:26
from talking with them over phone seems as though they don't have reports on my cars performance so that what i'm relying on now. wasn't over fueled injectors tested and fine notable damage accross all four pistons so wondering whether turbo boosted up too much.
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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 16:46
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 16:46
X-man
That is not a 'good look' at all.
I had a DTS now MTQ turbo fitted to the Troopys 1HZ in 2001 and have done 50,000kms since being a mixture of long touring to get to the interesting
places, such as Simpson,
Googs Track and 'nice 4WD sites'
The vehicle weighs 3.5t when fully loaded and the turbo gets worked to its acceptable limits. Also pull a 1.5T CT on occasions.
End result - not a problem anywhere so far.
When installed, the pump and injectors were removed and sent off to a pump
shop where the injectors were piffed and a 'matched set' supplied.
The pump was rebuilt to suit the the turbo.
Since then I have learned about 'overfueling' and the pitfalls of same and installed a Termoguard EGT guage which was a real eye opener on what the engine temp is doing under load etc etc.
I now drive by what that guage is telling m, so that I have the power I require whilst keeping the engiine temp within acce[table limits.
Excluding the cooling system, the main reason for diesels to over heat and do things like you have experienced - is over fueling either from excessive load on the engine along with high gearing or from the pump being 'wound up' via the manual fuel exterior fuel adjuster.
The later has been known to happen after a turbo has been installed and the installer has to show the customer how much the vehicle performance has 'improved by extra power gained'
The only other engine to experience a similar type of damage on a very regular basis is the Nissan 3.0l, however, ithese cases the fault is a design fault in the lubricating desiign, not over fueling.
AnswerID:
257938
Follow Up By: x-man - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:16
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 17:16
Fuel never wound up. was under impression that it was when installed, pyroed and all those tests but when pulled engine down original cap and lead wire where still over fuel screws so sent in to get tested and was only running at factory setting. injectors fine too. It wasn't running as i expected power wise and was bout to get it dyno tuned however engine let go weekend before.
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 18:03
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 18:03
After reading your responses I have to admit that I am out of ideas.
What I do know though is it wouldn't matter how much boost there is from the turbo, if the fuel delivery doesn't match it then nothing much extra happens.
Thats why removing the pump and injectors and sending to a pump techat time of install is a good idea..
Other than that I just wish you the best of British Luck with this situation and would be very interested in the outcome of same.
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Reply By: fj1200 - Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 22:52
Sunday, Aug 19, 2007 at 22:52
May be they didnt adjust the fuel load, but have had a fiddle with the timing, and if you get that wrong on a turbo all that extra air and then fuel at the wrong time could really hammer the pistons.
AnswerID:
257998
Follow Up By: x-man - Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 16:28
Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 16:28
Timing? as in timing belt. It had trouble starting a lot of time had glow plugs changed and still very tempremental only after turbo installed though. never new why that was case.
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Follow Up By: fj1200 - Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 17:41
Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 17:41
Maybe, but i was suggesting injector pump timing.
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Follow Up By: x-man - Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 17:04
Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 17:04
oh ok. how can that be adjusted on mechanical fuel pump? i'm not overly mechanical minded.
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Follow Up By: fj1200 - Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 18:41
Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 18:41
The injector pump is bolted on the engine and when the bolts holding the pump are undone the pump can be rotated backwards or forwards to the desired setting, then bolts are tightened up again.
You mentioned that you had the pump checked and that it was still at the original factory non turbo setting, but the place that fitted the turbo reckon they adjusted the pump, so either they are lying or what they adjusted they believe to be the fuel pump and it wasn't, they couldn't be that stupid.
I had a similar but cheaper experience with a very flash looking diesel workshop and impressive sounding mechanic in
melbourne.
Paid a thousand bucks for injectors and tune up on ford courier.
Had a close look at injector pump and it hadnt been touched.
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Follow Up By: x-man - Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 at 19:01
Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 at 19:01
Oh ok got ya. Yeah i thought that this place was quite good to but would never go there again. They got in contact with me today and are going to pay for new pistons and rings so that better than nothing. thanks for ur advice mate.
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Follow Up By: x-man - Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 at 19:01
Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 at 19:01
Oh ok got ya. Yeah i thought that this place was quite good to but would never go there again. They got in contact with me today and are going to pay for new pistons and rings so that better than nothing. thanks for ur advice mate.
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Reply By: John Davies - Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 14:37
Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 14:37
I'm sorry to say but if the turbo mob never increased the fuelling it is not likley their fault the engine crapped itself.
For a deisel to burn pistons it has to have too much fuel and run hot, but only adding a turbo (more air) would actually lean out the mixture.
Not sure what caused your engine problem, maybe it tried to run on it own oil, or maybe really poor condition injectors but then the damage would have happened without a turbo being added.
John D - Disco 200 Tdi
AnswerID:
258077
Follow Up By: x-man - Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 16:41
Monday, Aug 20, 2007 at 16:41
yeah seems to be what most people saying about a diesel. Still confused as to why there was in increse in power then.
more air more compression therefore more work for the engine? that sound right?
Injectors fine had them tested straight away. so i really dont no what happened to it.
They keep saying that they set fuel but tests shows otherwise never been touched since built. so what other tests have to be done when installing a turbo that they didn;t do.
Frustrating cause ya pay to get job done properly.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 12:58
Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 12:58
The increase in power would be just increasing the volumetric efficiency by ensuring there was enough oxygen to complete the burn. This will allow a small increase in power and economy as
well as altitude adjustment.
Sorry to hear about the burning pistons mate!
Matt.
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Reply By: snow - Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 08:09
Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 08:09
Mate I feel for ya Xman and agree ya pay to get a job done properly and left wondering when it dies.
I fitted a turbo to my old lux (2.4) and at the time a lot of people said it was not a good idea...but I picked up the turbo 2nd hand, bolted it on and a straight thru exhaust, drove it, tweaked the pump by eye and ears a couple of times and had fantastic service for 50 odd thou kms before I sold her. I reckon some 90 % of those km were highway and I did not baby the old girl quite the opposite in fact with no dramas whatsoever following which I was a big advocate of turboing the Lux's so mate I really empathise with your situation and hope you can at least learn why th emeltdown occurred.
AnswerID:
258223
Follow Up By: x-man - Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 17:01
Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 at 17:01
Cheers mate. Got an email from MTQ today saying that eccess exhuast temp can cause my problem quite easily. they say it comes down to fuelling. Which brings me back to square one diesel or not with regards to fuelling (under or over) no problem before turbo installed and after turbo was incorrectly installed by people qualified to do it the engine lets rip. but what can u do i guess
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