No more polar bears - now that is a shame,,,,

Willem
Thanks mate, saves me saying anymore on the subject, I could add a couple of pages but I'm just tired of the BS they go on with, They just put the mouth into gear without any real deep thought on the subject.

Doug

Amazing! Based on what I have just read above, it appears to me that the Dodo is not extinct at all :)

Cheers
Greg

Gday Willem,

Absolutely spot on there, IMO anyway. It's a natural proccess just running its course. Good luck to the ones who are trying to reverse this. Let the worriers do the worrying and we will do the living.

Cheers Dave

Willem,

I like polar bears, they are cuddly and white - and they DO eat people as you say. But have you ever thought that's PRECISELY why I like 'em. After all, I'm sure you know heaps of people that should be fed to polar bears??? I certainly do!

And Willem,,,,,,,,,,,you may call them,"Frill Neck Lizards", but I call 'em "Thrill Neck Lizards". Ya see, it all depends what you do with 'em ;) Don't tell me that you've never, ever had a ferret down yer pants!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bilbo - "The kinky hobbit"

That's a mighty fine attitude you and Doug have there Willem! Is that you don't have another 50 years left on your tyres that you're so flippant about this issue? If so, then I have to say how dissapointing it is to hear that!

Worst case scenario: the world's ending and we do what we can about it.

Best case scenario: it's all BS (to use Doug's words) and we spend a bit of effort trying to live cleaner and greener anyway.

I can't see a down side there?

It's the self serving attitude of those that think they know everything and care for nothing more than themselves that has this planet in the state it's in today.

Don't get me wrong - I hope you're right! Because I do have plenty of years on my tyres! One day I'd like to have kids too and I'd like a world for them to enjoy too!

Cheers
Scoey!

Scoey

I base my comments on more than 50 years of experience of having crap drummed into my head by the print media, radio and TV, in their self serving race to confuse Joe Blow and the public.

One of the main things in life, and that is indeed why I have been travelling for most of it, is to observe what lies around you.

The next thing is to read up on your favourite subject and beyond that as well.

The third thing is to listen to a variety of opinions of life in general from older people.

After you have done this, then you may form an opinion on world matters.

So that is what I have posted. MY OPINION!


If you feel disappointed by it then you only have yourself to blame.

Cheers

Willem,

You might find this an interesting read:

Intel Failure

Cheers

Pete

This is also interesting and provides factual information, unlike the previously posted link...

Global Annual Mean Surface Temperature Anomaly

What is causing it is another question and some may like to disagree with others....but it appears to me that the world, on average, is getting warmer..or have I got the computer screen upside down?

Cheers
Greg

Willem,

I'm not dissapointed in the fact that you posted your opinion. I'm dissapointed in your attitude. Not that I expect you to care. But maybe you do?

It's an attitude that's shared by too many people and frankly, in my opinion, serves no positive purpose.

In my opinion, it would be an ignorant person who believes that the human race aren't having a detrimental effect on the earth and that nothing need be done about it. Not someone who is well travelled, well read and worldly.

There is such a thing as irrepairable damage.

As I said before, I hope you're right and everything will be ok! But where's the harm in trying to encourage people to live cleaner and greener? Where's the harm in trying to reduce the human race's impact on the earth?

Clearly, I'm about as likely to get you to agree with me as I am, to agree with you and that's fine. I just think it'd be nice if someone reading this changed thier thinking just a little bit.

I don't mean to have a go at you by saying that your attitude dissapoints me, but then you already know that if you care about that, then you only have yourself to blame hey?

Cheers
Scoey!

Scoey
We think as humans we are superior, ...well were not , if you want to size things up check this. and we think Earth is big , are we entitled to say "Australia, she's a big Country mate"
Compare the size
.
.
.

Scoey

What a wonderful discourse!

I have not met you in person and so you do not know me and therefor it is really very silly for you to state that I have a bad attitude towards things environmental. And I don't need to tell you how I see myself as past of this planet.

In response to Bilbo's emotive plea to save the the Polar Bear I merely stated >Considering that the world has been around for some billion years, is a living cell, and will rengenerate itself as it has done on timeless occasions, I doubt whether what people are saying, is remotely true<.......From this you have deducted that my attitude towards life on this planet is abysmal. You go on to state that maybe I don't care because I am an older person, inferring that my time may be up soon and that I should care etc etc......

As for irrepairable damage...that is only a perception.....it is just a re-arrangement of atoms. Atoms can be split but not destroyed.

Enjoyment of life is in the eye of the beholder. What you may consider as enjoyment now, your children of the future might find repulsive.

Perceptions... its all a matter of perceptions.

Cheers

Greg

I was typing a response but had a time-out and it wasn't long-winded either...lol

I read a book once with the title "How to lie with Statitics"

Your graph is the work of a human, and humans are fallible.

Then again, my screen might be upside down as well.

Cheers

Willem, Willem, Willem - your comments never cease to amaze me (I found your suggestion that polar bears should just swim to hard ground when the Artic ice melts and all will be OK particularly amusing). I am also curious as to how you have concluded that the sea level won’t rise if the Artic ice (continues) to melt. It is possible that sea levels won’t rise any further but, from what I can figure, only if the additional volume of water being created is removed (along with the additional water coming from other melts) to some other part of the water cycle that does not include the oceans. I know its only your opinion but if you could clarify your ideas/thoughts on this I would be interested to read them.

You are correct on statistics – they can and have been presented in ways that suit particular agendas. I am however not sure that a simple graph of average temperatures can be manipulated too much (unless you are suggesting the actual data is made up?). Anyway, I think the raw data is available for download so anyone can graph it themselves and make up their own mind on what it means. It appears pretty clear to me though. All food for thought.

Everyone having Fun?

Cheers
Greg

Greg, Greg Greg!!!

I am stuck indoors with a rotten cold...what is your excuse?

Also there is no global warming here today. It is cold, wet, and windy.

Ice is expanded water. Should it all melt, the rise in sea levels would be negligible. It had has been said that if ALL the ice on this planet should melt, then the seal levels would rise by 70metres. That, in my opinion is negligible. Maybe it weill happen in a million years from now, maybe not. Then you have to take natural evaporation and precipitation into account. By how much has the termperature risen in the the last 100 years. One Google site says 1 degree Farenheit! Not a cause for alarm is it? Now suddenly the bears are going to have no ice in 40 years time?

I go back to what I said in the beginning >Considering that the world has been around for some billion years, is a living cell, and will rengenerate itself, as it has done on timeless occasions<

I will go for Charles Darwin's theory of natural selection and survival of the fittest. Them's the breaks for the Polar Bears unless we humans intervene and relocate them to solid ground somewhere and declare that we have saved another species from possible extinction. What will the bears think of it? We know best, don't we.

We can go around and aroundin circles for hours mate, discussing these things. Best solution I think is for you to meet me somewhere in the Western Deserts around a camp fire in 09 and we can discuss global warming at length.

Cheers

My excuse! Writing reports (I work out of home) for all the field work Ive been doing! I am easily distracted. Its polar bear cold here too..which reminds me of the poem

Cold as a frog in a frozen pool
Cold as the end of an Eskimos t**l
Cold as the hairs on a polar bears b*m
Cold as you love for a ***** when youve ***........woops sorry x-rated

09 Western Deserts - could be a possibility - certainly plenty of time to prepare...though by then it may not be a desert:)

Bugger off I’m busy and now I’m another 10 minutes behind

Cheers
Greg

First you elicit a response, and now you tell me to bugger off.

Best you bugger off and do some work...lol

Cheers

Bl**dy hell you're right - sorry for being rude.

Ok - I have read your response to my queries regarding your ideas on sea level and polar bears. In summary, I don't agree with most of what you've said and in fact think you are crackers...but thats Ok cause so am I:)

Catchya
Greg

Hi Willem,

You're right - I have never met you and so to make a judgement on your attitude on things environmental would be silly. That is why I made a judgement on your attitude expresed in your post.

I also expressed that I was dissappointed with your view you had put forward. To say that I think your attitude to life on this planet is abysmal is quite a stretch, to say the least.

I also questioned whether you would care what I think. No where did I say that this was because you are an older person. And any inference you took from that was all your own.

As for irrepairable damage being only a perception?... Have a chat to someone who's lost an eye. I'm sure it's just thier perception that they can't see out of it. Or maybe we should look at the Dodo?

Anyway, thanks for the chat. Take care!

Cheers, Scoey.

just to set the record straight the issue the bears have with the lack of ice is it greatly impedes the way they hunt and get food,. In summer they are forced off the ice packs and eat little until it reforms. The issue is the ice is melting sooner and reforming later increasing their fasting spells.
weather or not this is mans doing or not i have no wish to discuss over the internet.
HOWEVER
i i magine seals and beluga whales etc are doing it much easier without being plucked from their breathing holes by a waiting bear. the rise of small seals could increase the numbers of leopord seals or something
nature hates a vacume

Arn't those leopard seals a nasty looking beast.

I was called out to 'rescue' one on a beach when I worked for the RSPCA. It was just resting and there were a couple of kids kicking sand over it - until it yawned. They took off then!

Two days later we had an excited call from the tour operators at Granite Island - it was hunting penguins just off the jetty and throwing them into the air before munching them.

"Can you get rid of it?"

"Sorry ma'am. Thats what nature does."

It hung around for a few days then left.

I have a mate who worked at Mawson station and he was hunted by one once when on the sea ice.

Pete

The ice age didn't happen over nigh, it happened over 10,s of 1000's of years.

The change we are seeing now has increased in the last 40 years and we still have 20 to 30 years of pollution stil to do damage.

The whole world is a eco system and we are part of it.

I thought the 4wd thing was "leave nothing but foot prints", it's no differant, you don't go out and wreck the enviroment when you are 4wding....but when it comes to the world very few care.

Perhaps when we go like China and have to wear face masks for every day activities people may start paying attention to it.

There are 3 types of people in this world, LEADERS, FOLLOWERS and KNOCKERS......which one are you (it's not directed at SHAKER)

Regards Richard

To be quite honest, I'm not sure which one I am, I would assume like most that I'm a follower.
I do know though, that I live in country Victoria & if you talk to old farmers about the drought, they say it reminds them of 50 or 60 years ago when farmers were forced to leave the land.
I also think that a lot of very marginal areas are now being farmed & it doesn't take much of a climatic glitch to make it unviable.

Richard

I am a LEADER. Which one are you???....LOL

Cheers

Shaker asked,",,,,,,,OK, if humans are causing climate change, who caused the Ice Age?? ,,,,,,,,,,"

Polar bears, Shaker, polar bears. They wanted things all thier own way, but we showed 'em eh!

Which is how this thread started I think,,,,,,,,

Bilbo

Good Knockers usually have many Folllowers :) ... what am I Leading to....

no pics sorry.....

Problem with getting rid of half, is which half do we get rid of, and who decides. Half would be insufficient, as the population would double within one generation..

If anyone confesses to knowing which half (or 80%) should be selected to go, what does that make them?

I am inclined to think we will eventually annihilate ourselves (or a substantial portion of ourselves) basically by consuming our habitat, like a locust plague. When there is no food left, the plague is over, all the locusts are dead.

There will probably be no wild animals or fish left when that happens, as we will eat every available gram of protein we can catch, and all plant foods will also be gone.

Not much food on the moon, so we can't go there.......

Anarchy, will decide which half

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

GAIA

Interestingly James Lovelock is in favour of nuclear power - a man of much wisdom and insight.

Mike Harding

On the money, Gerhard, spot on.

Equinox - a very plausible scenario. May I just say, that it's a scenario that we may yet have even without climate change. Have you seen peoples reactions to APEC and other such global
trade meetings? It's coming,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And finally me ole mate, Mike H,,,,,,,,,,,,,James Lovelock and "The Gaia theory" Top stuff from a guy that 40 years ago started the Green Movement all on his own. What a change of heart he had about nuclear power. Scary reading for some but I reckon he's right.

Bilbo

>what about unsustainable harvesting of the oceans

Type "bottom trawling" into Google - it's a disgrace and a shame on us all that such a practice should occur.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/save-our-seas-2/save-deep-sea-life

Bottom trawling

Mike Harding

It has been forecast that within 25 years, seafood will be the province of only the very rich, if it's available at all.

Huge areas of SE Asia have been fished out for the last decade.

Bilbo

I started reading your post and thought you were talking 'survivalist' LOL

F4,

Yep mate, that's it,",,,,,,,,,,the earth will be come through just fine,,,,,,,,,,,"

But perhaps 70% won't be here to see it.

It's not just "Climate Change" that's the problem. it's the additional "load" of pollution, overuse and an increasing population.

I wonder what will happen when the Chinese run out of room, food and resources to provide for thier nation?

"Hmmmmm,,,,,,,,,Austrayyiaa rooks a good bet eh! Rotsa food, rotsa space, rotsa lice, rotsa evellything and not so many people, not so squeezy as China eh. Dey got noe pranes, not many ships, subarrines no broody good, hericopter clash all time. OK we invade Austrayyia tommollow"

Bilbo.

I agree, in those empire building computer games there is an option to pay off larger empires than you with money to stop them attacking. The thing is, it only works for so long before their demands keep rising and eventually you cant pay and they attack. I recon in the future good political relations will only go so far until we have some serious issues to face.

I agree, in those empire building computer games there is an option to pay off larger empires than you with money to stop them attacking. The thing is, it only works for so long before their demands keep rising and eventually you cant pay and they attack. I recon in the future good political relations will only go so far until we have some serious issues to face.

What a load of CR*P Doug T
What has god and the environment got to do with each other
Look at the name of the web site that you are directing readers to
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/
They only print what they want there believers to believe in
How can any one believe is such utter rubbish and still warrant respect

Ive

Ive

Your name says it all

Over Population. I was looking at the Earth as seen from space, I see an image of Australia from 4000 klm , there are what some 20,000,000 in Australia and I couldn't see not one human

No humans?? What about polar bears, or forum members (arguably too many of the latter)?

Gee, thanks Dave.

I dunno how I do it sometimes,,,,,,,, ;)

I just type in a little comment, maybe add a little pepper to it with a loaded, (er sorry that should "leading") question and next everyone's at each other throats,,,,,,,,,,,,

Good eh!

Bilbo - "The pot stirring hobbit"

Exactly!!!

The prosecution rests its case M'lud,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and,,,,,,,,,,no polar bears = no Wallabies!!!

Bilbo