Diesel fuel contamination

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 22, 2007 at 22:39
ThreadID: 49946 Views:3894 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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49844 showed a device that could be fitted to trap and warn of water but if you go to the "4x4 forum and read a post from"arcticwolf" 5 days ago where he says that $5600 damage was done to a 4000km BT50 engine by dirty fuel, it would seem that the trap wouldn't have prevented this, because the contaminant was more than water. Seems to me that for $785, all you are getting is a sight glass with a drain that has the advantage of giving an electronic warning. Wouldn't it be more effective to install an additional inline filter (in an easy to see place) that had a drain?
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Reply By: wigger - Saturday, Sep 22, 2007 at 22:45

Saturday, Sep 22, 2007 at 22:45
sorry forgot to sat that site to look at is : www.4wdmonthly.com.au
AnswerID: 263509

Reply By: Footloose - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 06:40

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 06:40
Have a peek inside long distance truck engines.
I've been lucky enough to never have had problems, but I do carry and use some chemtech additive to the fuel.
AnswerID: 263521

Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:07

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:07
Whats the additive and how can it counteract something where the contaminant is of a granular nature (i.e. dirt not water). The problem seems to be that the new common rail diesels, with their very close injector tolerances, are very susceptible to any foriegn matter in fuel and so extra filtration seems to be the safe way to go.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:28

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:28
Agree, but I use old technology.
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:20

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:20
Check out www.morison.com.au

AnswerID: 263592

Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:21

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:21
Tks Roachie. Have had a lok at the site and it looks promising. Have you used stuff from these bods?
On another front- I have about 100 liters of diesel in a clean drum which has been sitting for 3 mths in a cool place. Do you thing it might have started to grow'bugs' (biological, not dirt) Years ago diesel grew "black clag' but I think that they now add something to it, to stop this.You'd think that if this was happening then the drums that they deliver to Well 23 CSR from the Mt Newman roadhouse would be petty toxic after sitting in the hot sun for two months
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Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:24

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:24
Sorry Doug T
That lok was meant to be "look"
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:39

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:39
My understanding is that these bugs tend to grow when there is a bit of space in the tank (or drum), which engenders moisture build-up on the sides of the tank (or drum).

If the tank is practically full, then there is not as much liklihood of the organisms flourishing......they actually grow in between the invisible layer between the diesel and water. Or something like that.

It is for this reason that I always try to keep both my diesel tanks full. A lot of blokes only ever put fuel in their sub tank when they are about to go on a long trip, thinking they are doing themselves a favour by not carting a lot of extra fuel around unnecessarily most of the time. I think this is not such a good idea....but I have no proof; it's just what I've read over the years.

The DeBug unit is simple....it just has 3 large, powerful magnets inside which are separated by plastic spacers. Any "dirt" would sink to the bottom of the bowl and be very unlikely to get through to the filter/s
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Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 23:03

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 23:03
Tks roachie. To clarify. Are you asying that the magnets pick up any metallic stuff and the other crud just sinks to the bottom and that way all bases are covered? Did you get one of these units and how hard to fit.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 08:21

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 08:21
I have one, sitting in the shed ATM......I haven't got around to fitting it yet.

Easy to fit, so long as you've got the space. They take up about the same area as a standard filter arrangement.

Simply arrange for the hose that goes to the filter, to go to the DeBug's "in port", then from it's "out port" to the filter's "in port".

I haven't got any space under the bonnet, but will eventually put it down the back near the tank, under the tray.....plenty of room under there.

Yes, that's what I reckon happens.....metals and algae etc are treated by the magnets....other sediments sink to the bottom of the bowl. It has a drain bung.
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Reply By: lindsay - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:40

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:40
If you put 2 inline filters in a system,what makes you think you will get better filtration. If it gets through the first filter it will get through the second filter, unless the 2nd filter is a lot finer.
AnswerID: 263597

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:54

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:54
Its pretty easy to accidentally introduce dirt during a filter change. On the Toyotas, many would disconnect both lines and change the filter on a bench.

My preference is to keep it in the vehicle and not disconnect the fuel line to the pump, so theres no chance of dirt slipping into the line.

2 filters is good.Mine comes that way standard. I change the prefilter regularly (about 10k), and if it looks relatively clean in there don't bother changing the main filter until about 40k.
AnswerID: 263601

Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:01

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:01
Wigger,
I could not find that thread . What was the subject?

By the sounds of it , it was dirt and not water.

A daily inspection of unit , which is clear would show the dirt at bottom , and it can be drained quite simply.

If too dirty then other drastic action needs to be taken, but it could be taken before any damage.

At least it can be seen, rather than hidden as it obviously was.

Pedro
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Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:35

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:35
Sorry Should have given you more info
Go to WWW.4wdmonthly.com
Go to Forum
Go to the 3rd categorycalled "tech talk"
Go to last category-"other makes"
Go to the post from 'artic wolf' (5th one down)

There are two pages on this saga
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Reply By: marq - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:33

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:33
Problem with two filters is a number of vehicles will not run correctly. I would imagine the new CR diesel systems are even worse.
AnswerID: 263608

Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:38

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:38
Why not? is there too much resistance for the pump to cope with?
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Reply By: prob123 - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 17:27

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 17:27
An interesting problem with an expensive solution. I would have thought if water was such a serious problem in diesel fuel then as "wigger" said an additional in-line filter would be a much cheaper alternative. For instance, a good hard-wound cellulose filter or even a good toilet roll, would absorb around 180 mls of water and that's a hell of a lot to be in fuel anyway.
Since I have been selling bypass oil filters for cars and 4WD's I've often wondered if converting the filter to a full flow filter( drilling out the outlet 1/4 inch BSP internal diameter from 1/16 to 1/4 with a suitable drill) would be a good alternative. I know some companies do sell them for fuel filters.
The bypass filter I have on my wife's car is a "Jackmaster" and sold locally for $99 and contains a free filter. The replacement filter elements cost only $8.

Cheers,
Peter
AnswerID: 263616

Follow Up By: wigger - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:55

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 21:55
Tks Peter, To take up point on last line. I presume you are talking about the bypass filter on your wife's car being an oil filter so this doesn't solve the problem. In addition, my understanding is that fuel filters have a finer filtration than oil filters because we had a complaint from a guy who bought a 2nd hand tractor which had a BALDWIN fuel filter fitted in place of the correct oil filter. Rang BALDWIN, for replacement no. who said he got good deal and should stop his moaning.This is how i got the idea about finer filtration on fuel filters. This seems to be a very tricky subject and might need some expert advice before adding a second filter.
If you read the 4wd forum post you come away thinking that you'd better make sure it doesn't happen to you . Guy insists that he bought diesel from big s/stations up at Nerang.
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Reply By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:09

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:09
Thanks for those details Wigger.

On reading thread started by Artic Wolf I see it was dirty fuel, which is not picked up by sensor in unit, I mentioned.
However, as I said the clear bowl enables inspection of any dirt that gets into fuel and it can be drained off.

One thing I did not mention on earlier thread is that the unit also senses "black algae" as well as plain water and, as an audible alert is triggered when any gets to bottom of bowl before main filter, steps can be taken to get rid of it before damage to engine .


Pedro

AnswerID: 263679

Follow Up By: wigger - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 22:23

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 22:23
Tks pedro,
Can you let me know how you get on with the new filter/trap and whether you do see black clag or water in your fuel. It would be interesting to know what the quality of the 'discount' fuel being sold by Coles and C/WWs is like and you've now got the piece of gear to find out. What date was the GC bulletin featuring the article?
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