That vexing electrical question post 49993

Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 08:47
ThreadID: 50035 Views:3039 Replies:6 FollowUps:15
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It is easier to post a reply here than to wade through all the varying ideas on auto-electrical matters.

I had a good look at the wiring.

6mm auto wiring..... red in colour on the outside. Approximately 60 thin strands of copper wire inside.

15amp 240v wiring. Orange on outside. Three covered wires. One blue, one brown, one green and yellow. Each covered wire contains approximately 30 thin strands of copper wire inside.

I used the blue wire to the negative terminal of the aux battery and brown wire to the positive terminal of battery. Brown wire fused with 10amp inline glass fuse close to battery terminal. Green and yellow wire not used. All three wires encased in orange cover and there should be little chance of it chafing or rubbing through. At rear of vehicle wires connected to cig socket which is stored in a safe place in the rear trim.

So 6mm auto wire looks to be the better option and will most likely use it. (More strands better conductivity?)

BTW I have hardwired and fused the Engel to the aux battery as well, with a 10amp inline fuse in place, using OEM wiring.

Thanks to all for you informative electrical kjnowledge but I am afraid that it went over the top of me head.....LOL

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:24

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:24
Willem
Top of the Morning to you ,
That's not going to work you know, Positive has to be red or it won't work ........unless of course your wiring is like mine, all bloody colours ,
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:28

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:28
colour blind eh?
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Reply By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:27

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 09:27
10amps is 10 amps
240 15amp cable can easily handle the 10amps .......but 12vdc requires a larger cable than 240v (for same current rating) as lower volts suffer more from cable resistance which causes, if resistance is high enough, higher amps, meaning more heat in cable and if resistance is too high it will surely begin to melt insulation with resulting failure and dangers...eg fire

yes the more cross sectional diameter wiring means better conductivity or less resistance

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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:11

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:11
Only 1 thing wrong with the "10 amps is 10amps" oh wiseone, 10amps at 240v can possibly give you enough of a jolt to stop the old heart from beating , 10amp at 12v wont.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:31

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:31
i know that ...it may also give an an adrenelin rush......not a nice way to get it but ....
but that is not what the discussion is about
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 10:36

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 10:36
Willem
I think it was you I told I was going to take some photo's of my wiring
Professional Wiring

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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY (VIC) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:46

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:46
Gday Doug
Nothing wrong with that lot...they all reach.............

Murray
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 13:07

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 13:07
Murray
That's it mate, I know where they all go and what they do , see if you get someone else to do it and you have trouble in the desert your lost ,then you have track each wire ,
My Sparks look good eh ....lol
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Reply By: traveller2 - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 11:45

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 11:45
The other problem Willem is that 240v cable tends to be made up of thicker conductors which fatigue and eventually break sooner when subjected to vibration in a vehicle situation. They are meant to be used in buildings with virtually zero movement.
I've used cheap 240v extension cables to run the winch wiring into the cabin to operate it from inside and the wires start to snap after 4 or 5 years in the vehicle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:01

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:01
Willem said that the cable he used was multi stranded so your theory of fatigue breaking is absolutely not true, and that's being very nice !

Have you checked the thickness of the strands of the main supply cables on your battery ?
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Follow Up By: traveller2 - Thursday, Sep 27, 2007 at 08:12

Thursday, Sep 27, 2007 at 08:12
Well you are entitled to your opinion but having had it happen twice in I guess I must be imagining it. The first time was very heavy cable used to connect a winch and it broke completely through despite being anchored at regular intervals. The second time was in a normal 3 core grey extension lead, both inside the insulation with no external signs of damage.
As a matter of fact I've also seen it happen on normal battery cables even more frequently especially when manufacturers go for larger strands to save money.
Three times on trucks the earth cable from battery to chassis fatigued which led to the starting current travelling through the next biggest cable which happened to be a Codan HF.
They do not work after 400+ amps have travelled through them!!
A good reason NOT to connect your accessory grounds to the battery terminal.
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Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 11:54

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 11:54
You can't use 240 volt ac cable on 12 volt dc systems unless you get the frequency right.

As said above 240 volt ac use a frequency of 50 to 60 Hz's and frequency relates to time so if you don't get the frequency right it will take longer for the power to get to the fridge or the power will get there quicker and the fridge will either get to cold or not cold enough.

It is the same as if you fitted driving lights and used 240 volt cable, the driving lights would either have a delay when turnig them on and off or the worse thing is it may happen to quick and before you need then on they will turn on and before you need then turned of the will turn off.

You can get around this problem either by using 12 volt dc cable or you can buy a ac/dc time correction box.

Regards Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY (VIC) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:48

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:48
Time for another Port Richard
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 14:20

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 14:20
Olcoolone, you are off you face.

There is no legal reason why you can’t use 240vac cable in a motor vehicle for 12 volt use.

I have to ask this, why would using cable intended for 240vac use cause a delay when used in a 12 vdc application.

I haven’t laughed so hard in ages.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:25

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:25
Driversafe if you took my post seriously I think you need to lighten up. LOL

I don't think anyone with half a brain would belive it, it was posted as a JOKE and that is all it is a JOKE.

I have to stop now....my sides are hurting

CHEERS.

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Follow Up By: al - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:04

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:04
where can i get a correction box will a red one work better ?

al
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 21:29

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 21:29
Al the red ones are for people who use 12 volt wire in a 240 volt, the one you are looking for is yellow.

There is another one that may be of interest you it is called the " ac/dc time correction box PLUS".

The ac/dc time correction box PLUS comes with all the standard gear with the added benifit of having a energy polarisers as fitted to the VL Brock Commodores.

Richard

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Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:21

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:21
The main reason that using 240v cable in a 12v application is frowned upon is that some stupid [not u Willem] people then use 240v plugs and sockets which then creates the real risk of a 12v item with a 240v plug being plugged into a "real" 240v supply ,, nough said ..
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:35

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 16:35
in a caravan yes
but in a car?...a car is not normally wired for 240 so i dont think it is an issue
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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:04

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2007 at 17:04
Yes no1 , in a car , couple of yrs back we had on this forum a fellow who told us all about how he found a great way to save the $$ by using 24ov cable/plugs+sockets , like change your 12v light plug to a 240v plug ect ect , its not the point that the vehicle does not have 240v , but that the accessories as in 12v lights/fridge ect ect plugs are/can be changed to 240v plugs which then creates a real problem , not for the actual owner but for the unsuspecting child /person you tell to go plug the light in. Bit like the recall 3yrs ago on gmc and scorpion gen sets that had a 12v outlet with lead / battery clamps that fitted into the 240v outlet.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Sep 27, 2007 at 07:23

Thursday, Sep 27, 2007 at 07:23
but we are only talking about wire...240v wire being used in place of 12v....we are not talking about changing the plugs and sockets making it look like its somehow connected to the power grid
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