Illegal firearms in NSW

To get ahead you need to become a legal arms dealer and sell millions of weapons that can kill or maim...stuff the Govt can make a $ and a vote out of !!

Not that I'm an expert on judges, but it seems that many of them should be deprived of their powers of bleeding hearts.

A broadbrush comment popular with tabloid newspapers and "current affairs" TV shows. There are thousands of sentences handed down across Oz each year - I'm sure everyone can find a few they don't like but then they probably have no understanding of that particular case either. I note few people seem to complain about sentences which appear too severe?

Mike Harding

The fact that the media do pay attention to such matters indicates that a fair proportion of the population has the same concerns.

If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.

Anatole France [Jacques Anatole Thibault] (1844-1924)

That would depend upon one's concept of foolish.

So there are no absolutes in the world then? Is that what you're saying? Everything is subjective to the eye of the beholder?

Even death and taxes are seen in different ways by different people.


There are different perceptions of reality. When we move too far from a commonly held perception or behaviour, we can find ourselves marginalized.

So, when I say it is or is not foolish, then you can agree or disagree. But if the great unwashed think differently then..........

And that is _exactly_ why we use judges to make specific and considered individual decisions. They are not perfect but they are much better than the alternatives.

Mike Harding

Judges have a knowledge of the Law, precedence and sentencing guidelines.
They are neither inculcated with common sense nor wisdom.
In other words they are just as fallible as anyone else.
Since the Law is an ass, only a fool puts his trust in the Law :))

So... your solution is...?

All elected court offocials to be elected without political interference by a body of peers .
Much greater inserviceing and monitoring by their peer groups.
The establishment of community reference groups that can input the system.
Re thinking the processes for the suspension/ removal of elected court offocials.
Automatic review of tenure for those whose findings are continuously and successfully appealed on points of law.

>All elected court offocials to be elected without political
>interference by a body of peers .

So judges electing judges - didn't you say they were asses?

>Much greater inserviceing and monitoring by their peer groups.

So judges monitoring judges - didn't you say they were asses?

>The establishment of community reference groups that can input the system.

Didn't you describe them as "the great unwashed"?

>Re thinking the processes for the suspension/ removal of elected court offocials.

So _someone_? (we don't know who) can chuck out the judges who were elected by other judges?

>Automatic review of tenure for those whose findings are
>continuously and successfully appealed on points of law.

So judges who know the law should be sacked - hmmmmm...?

Mike Harding

"So judges electing judges - didn't you say they were asses?"
No. I said that the_ Law_ is an ass.

"So judges monitoring judges - didn't you say they were asses?"
Sigh!

"Didn't you describe them as "the great unwashed"?"
No, I referenced them as such. This was done to indicate the greater community, rather than those within the system.

"So _someone_? (we don't know who) can chuck out the judges who were elected by other judges?"
Sure! Lets try a disciplinary committee from the Law Society for starters.

"So judges who know the law should be sacked - hmmmmm...?"
No, if you re read it I said that those who make too many mistakes in their application of the Law need to be looked at !

The point being that if you bring your illegal firearm into NSW, even on a peaceful 4wd jaunt, you now know what you're facing.

Footloose you dont seem to be able to understand a simple statement , if someone still has an Illegal firearm do you realy think that they will give 1 millisecond of thought to the fact that the penalties have been increased , the bloke who has an illegal firearm has it for only 1 reason and that is to do harm ,so he /she / it certainly isint about to care if its 5yrs or 25yrs for having the illegal firearm.

Axel, you are quick to jump down my throat, aren't you ?
Why?
Are you an illegal firearm owner?
If not then you have nothing to fear do you ?
Try reading what's posted, not what you think is posted. It was in no way a condemnation of firearms or their legal owners, and anyone who thinks it was has a personal problem of some magnitude!

Who is jumping down who's throat , you made a statement , a reply was given to the effect that the statement you gave would only apply to people who would not give a rats as to a penalty increase , " an illegal firearm into NSW ,even on a peaceful 4wd jaunt" who are you trying to kid ,

As I said, there are owners of unregistered firearms who wander the country. So I'm not trying to "kid" anyone.

I'd like to see the stats for accidental death by shootings and homicide deaths during the buyback.

But don't forget that some crims don't give em back....they are taken from them, and I suspect that the gun laws have made this process easier, at least I'd like to think that :))

In Victoria, a couple of years ago, we had the first, in the history of the state, murder by someone with a licenced firearm - it's not legal gun owners you need to worry about....

Mike Harding

Wonder what the penalty is for suicide ?

Well you don't get life.

"it's not legal gun owners you need to worry about"
Mike, do you have the stats on homicides and accidental shootings by legal owners to suggest that this is the case ?
I would like to think that you're correct

No, I don't - but I'm sure you can look them up.

Yes, I could. But I wasn't the one making the assertion :)

So disprove what I said.

I didn't set out to, I merely asked if your generalization was supported.

Climbdown acknowledged.

Mike, no climbdown. Obviously you read any and every query of your posts as a personal attack.
As strange and outside of your experience perhaps it may seem, I'm not here to attack anyone's opinions or score points.
If you read my posts carefully, I simply asked for any evidence to support your assertion.
Since none was offered, it stands as an assertion rather than a "fact"
So what ? Where's the soapbox in that ?

But the world still turns.

Jim: you have posted many threads of this type both on this forum and, some years ago, on the newsgroups - you seek conflict - you enjoy it, that's OK, but don't try to play the innocent when you are challenged.

Mike Harding

Incorrect assertion as usual. I RESPOND to conflict, you don't have to look too far to find just the person you describe, Mike.

"you have posted many threads of this type both on this forum and, some years ago, on the newsgroups "
And what type is that, Mike ? The kind that you feel free to post unsubstantiated generalizations instead of knowledge, about ?

you seek conflict - you enjoy it, that's OK,
No I don't. I've spent my life fixing conflicts, actually. But I don't back away from posts that I consider incorrect or bullying in nature.

but don't try to play the innocent when you are challenged.

Did you challenge me ? I missed that bit.
You seem to do that a fair bit, don't you Michael ?
Try and belittle me.
But it never quite works out, does it ?
You seem to have a problem that resides close to home.
Others on this forum have also noticed this problem, its on record.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you can't abide a rational, balanced discussion without personally attacking everyone then don't respond to posts.

Hey Footloose.

This person is a troll.

Every time he post Bullsh1t and gets challenged he pulls the you seek conflict cr@p.

I like you have spent countless hours on this site giving helpful info to the travelling people on this forum, Mike has spent countless hour posting argumentative rubbish, you only have to do a search to find I'm right.

Personally I wish the powers that be get rid of this person, as he is a hindrance to this forum.

Steve, unlike those who seek conflict, I'm not going to argue with you in the slightest :)))

Steve we may disagree on the football issues in life :-) but on this point I agree with you 100 percent.

Steve, this topic is guarenteed to stir the possums. Sadly, it doesn't chnage their opinions.
No point in raising anyone's blood pressure. I happen to agree whole heartedly but many do not.
I respect their right to have a different (but wrong:) opinion.

Steve
but we do have a right to enjoy any safe legal sport or pasttime

and we must keep them locked up?...are you asserting that if we licenced shooters give up our guns AND sport that firearms crime will stop....there is a good black market importation you know?...very few guns are in comparison are aquired by theft from licenced shooters by the crims...most are imported....

"..most are imported...." or stolen from security firms, unmanned police stations or defence installations. Take your pick.

Aw come on Al, you know you love it. :))

LOL by the time I noticed it was all over bar the shouting :)))

It isn't really over. He'll wait and have another go later. My mistake is in responding.

Yep, can't help himself :))

Probably a nice bloke, with a crook liver, in person. Not the impression one gets, unfortunately.

The poor bloke just doesn't know how to use Google or Wikipedia properly. LOL

Steve