Alternator output 90 series Prado

Thanks for the reply. "You are still not likely to pull more than 30 to 40 amps absolute maximum with the thicker cable" - is this because the cable is limiting it (if so, I'd rather go thicker), or because of the alternator, or ???

Hi again Stephen, it won’t matter how big your alternator is, the battery governs how much current it will take and between the length of the cable and the output voltage of your alternator, your AGM battery will never be in a situation where it could draw anything more than about 40 amps.

For a full and safe installation, you will need to run both the positive and negative cables and you will need to fit circuit breakers at each end of the positive cable.

As the maximum safe current for 6B&S when used in a 100% cycle rate, such as in a dual battery system, is about 80 amps, so use 50 amp circuit breakers. These will allow you to operate your system at it’s maximum operating current but will not allow any overload current to exceed the maximum safe load of the cable.

Cheers.

One more point Stephen, NEVER use fuses in high constant current situations like a dual battery system.

Circuit breakers not only go open circuit quicker than the equivalent current rated fuse but they have other advantages as well.

Cheers.

Thanks again - one more question - why do you recommend circuit breakers at each end of the positive cable, rather than one placed anywhere on the positive cable? If there's a short circuit, won't the high current be the same everywhere in this cable almost instantaneously?

Hi Stephen, if you were installing the auxiliary battery under the bonnet then one circuit breaker would be fine and it would act more as a current overload control that anything else.

But once you have long distances between the batteries, as you will, you need to protect each potential power source so that they are all isolated or protected in the chance the vehicle is involved in an accident.

As you know, it doesn't matter how safe a driver you are, you have to cater for the fact that there are plenty of idiots out there.

Cheers.

I'm just trying to get my head around why, if the positive cable between the two batteries is compromised, one circuit breaker anywhere in the circuit wouldn't cut the current thereby protecting both batteries?

Not quite.

Picture the RED cable running from battery “A” to a circuit breaker half way along the RED cable, then the RED cable goes to battery “B”.

If you get a shorted to earth in the RED cable between the circuit breaker and battery “B”, the cable between the short and battery “B”s positive terminal will be shorting to earth ( and dangerous ).

The cable between the short and the circuit breaker will also be shorted to earth.

But because the circuit breaker is between the short and battery “A” and the circuit breaker has tripped, the RED cable running between the circuit breaker and battery “A” is protected

By putting a circuit breaker at both ends of the RED cable, if a short occurs anywhere along the cable, both batteries are disconnected and the cable made safe.

Cheers.

I see - thanks for that, I'll add those to my "to buy" list!

Thanks but my question would simply then change by replacing "80" with "130" - ie. if I had a 130A alternator, would it actually put out 130A such that I should choose cable sufficient to handle this without significant voltage drop?

Stephen
Yeh interesting point, I forgot your not having it in the front as normal , My idea would be that your not going to lose all that much if the cable is heavy enough as your main post suggests, Maybe this would be good post for Derek at ABR to answer for you ,ABR Derek Bester

Stephen, you don't need more than 80 Amps, you will NEVER get to use it all anyway, it would stuff the battery totally if it was used as DS has said.
Use thicker cable and get lower or better still, ZERO voltage loss.

How do you think all those Toyota's with small (by comparison) 55 amp Alternators successfully charge their battery systems ??

I've heard different stories about using fuses - for example, in your own article on Battery Power here on EO, you say:

"You may fit fuses at either end of the positive battery cable but they will need to be rated at 100 amps and are very expensive. Most owners do not fit fuses on these cables for the following reasons:


Vehicle manufacturers do not fit fuses between the battery and the solenoid of the starter motor

There is very little chance of a short circuit between the battery and isolator

Fuses are a cause of voltage drop and will decrease the charge rate of the auxiliary battery"

So, why are you now saying I should put fuses in?

Further, using 6B&S cable over a total route of 10m carrying 80A would cause a voltage drop of over 1V - way to much to be acceptable if you ask me. Either the alternator will never give me 80A and 6 B&S really is OK, or 6 B&S is still too small - which is it?

The wiring in the article is for under bonnet systems and using the jump start functions or using a winch.

If fitting a battery 5m away from the engine and there is a possibility of wiring shorting or rubbing through then fit fuses. I would not fit a battery in the rear without fuses. You are looking for trouble.

Thanks for that - makes sense!

You would not get 1V drop charing a single battery of around 100 a/h at 5m. There is no way it will charge at 80A. You will be charging at more like 20A and if using a BiSolator or Rotronics isolator you will get alternator voltage at the rear of the car.

The charge rate is a curved graph and current v/s voltage changes as the battery is charged.

You are looking too hard for problems that are not there.

If you are concerned why not fit the battery under the bonnet.

Hi Stephen

I was just assuming that it is a V6 3400L

I can post a picture of my Diesel kit if you like.

Regards

Derek.

I'm not looking too hard for problems that aren't there and you finally seem to have answered my original question - whether an 80A alternator will put out 80A. Your answer seems to be that it won't - it will only charge at about 20A, so 6 B&S cable is sufficient.

I'd like some other opinions from people though - is Derek right?

Before you can get an exact answer you would need to tell us a bit more.

1) The type, make and model of the battery.
2) The type, make and model of the isolator.
3) The battery SOC at the time you take the test results.
4) Is there any drain on the battery during the charge cycle and if so how much and for how long.

I would also like to know the voltage of the alternator as this too can make a big difference to the result.

Regards

Derek.

Here is some info for you.

The Zero Volt drop system is what is used in the BiSolator and Rotronics isoaltors.

0 volt-splitting systems:

These are electronic devices using a control circuit and driving mosfets. The end result is a very low voltage drop across the splitting system (in the order off 0.04 volts but no reverse current flow is permitted due to the operation of the mosfets. A good analogy is the safety of the split charge diode with the performance of a split relay. However, at a much higher financial cost, this system is ideal where a vehicle or engine is being used and the alternator cannot be altered for warranty or other reasons.



The above tests were on a 300 amp hour battery bank, but can easily be extrapolated to 400 amp plus.

If any person were to give you all of those figures, for every possible SOC of the battery (each I presume), and every possible additional drain, my question is still simply, is it possible for an 80A alternator to actually put out 80A? And if not, why is it rated 80A?

The 80A alternator is designed to charge the battery and run the car.

Lets say 20A / hour to charge the battery.

This leaves 60A for the car.

1) Headlights on high beam with 1 set of spot lights 30A
2) Air conditioning 10A
3) Radio / GPS / iPod / Cell phone 5A
4) Engine and fuel pump 10A
5) Fridge 4A
6) Wipers 10A
7) Caravan 3 way fridge 10A
8) Trailer brakes, reverse camera, inverter, laptop, kids DVD player 20A

You see where the 80A goes.

Regards

Derek.

Thanks again Derek, it's all starting to make sense now. My main driving force is trying to set up my system to charge my second battery as quickly as possible. Is there any electronic gadget which, if I"m driving through the day and only using the alternator for say numbers 2, 3 and 4 from your list, will force the rest of the current down the cable to charge my second battery?

It’s not so much the current but the voltage that will control the charging time required by the battery.

The higher the supply or charge voltage, the quicker the battery will charge.

BTW, the info above is only in a worst case scenario.

While travelling at highway speeds during the day, your alternator will easily be able to supply all the current your battery needs to charge.

Remember the battery controls the amount of current it requires based on the vehicles voltage level, not on the alternators maximum current.

You could have a 1,000 amp alternator but if the battery only requires 25 amps to charge it, based on the voltage voltage level, than you only need 25 amps. You can force any additional current into the battery.

Good point - that makes sense. Now, is there any gadget available (or a particular way I should set the system up) that can maximise the voltage sent to the second battery?

Stephen, an AGM DC battery will fully recharge from your Alternator at 5 mtrs.
Use thicker cable (20mm sq) and you will have zero voltage loss at the rear battery.

Swap the mechanical solenoid for an electronic battery isolator and you gain with less voltage loss.

You will loose voltage at each high resistance item in the circuit - so eliminate them.

Doug, I’m curious as to your post, why should people ignore an auto electrician's advice and accept Derek’s as being correct.

An auto electrician has had to do a minimum of a 4 apprenticeship to learn his trade while Derek has only been in the auto electrical trade for what, 2 years and even then only as a salesman!

Hi Mr D

Please get your facts straight. I have trained more than 20 apprentices in the last 10 years.

Who is Derek Bester ?

Regards

Derek.

Top of the morning to you Derek

I was hoping you would find this , that's why I didn't act ,
Nothing short of amazing,

Here's a good one for drivesafe.....

.
.
.


Doug

Yes Doug, very funny but mate, you still haven’t answered my question and as for that little bit Derek’s self promoting, all it’s done is confirm that he has NO AUTO ELECTRICAL experience.

Now be honest Doug, you wouldn’t go to an auto electrician to get a gear box fixed so why would anybody consider that a mechanic is going to be experienced in auto electrical matters.

I personally don’t give a damn as to what he sells, it’s a free nation, but he continually gives misleading info on a subject he quite obviously knows nothing about, again so what, buyer beware, except that the average buyer has no way of checking whether his info is accurate and on a number of occasions he as give advice to people that is not only totally incorrect but the info, if followed, could easily result in some innocent sole loosing their vehicle or even the life.

He a salesman, not an authority on all things 12 volt.

drive????
As you were not the person who started this thread,and seem hell bent on nailing someone and you couldn't take the hint with the sticky tape that leaves me with but one option left, ......Goodbye


.
.

Actually Doug, my original question was for YOU and as such, can you point out any part of my original question that is not correct.

You elected to blow sunshine up someone's kilt and thats fine and all I asked, based on the facts at hand, is why you made such a statement.

Surely it is a valid and simple enough question to answer.

drivesafe or drive me up the wall ..
From what I have found here from three surveys up and down the thread replies this copy below is the first salvo aimed at me,
----------------------------------------------------------------
FollowupID: 526428 Submitted: Monday, Oct 01, 2007 at 23:43
drivesafe posted:
Doug, I’m curious as to your post, why should people ignore an auto electrician's advice and accept Derek’s as being correct.

An auto electrician has had to do a minimum of a 4 apprenticeship to learn his trade while Derek has only been in the auto electrical trade for what, 2 years and even then only as a salesman!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK so what's the problem , as for Auto Sparkies knowing everything ...well I've had my moments with some cheating mongrels , I have also had a positive result from one at Boekmans in Dalwallinu who could have lied to me about a $350 Alternator that I was about to throw in the bin because another Sparky told me it was probably burnt out , Boekmans could have told me it was buggered , put the new brushes in and scored a perfectly good Alternator, but No they were honest, Now I consider I know a reasonable amount about Garmin GPS but hell mate if you really want the nitty gritty then go to Johnny Appleseed at Annerly and see Doy ,
So now we come to Derek , All I'm going to say here is I reackon he would run rings around all of us "think we knows"
Now I hope that will satisfy your ego , let the subject come to an end .

Doug

My original post was prompted by some advice I'd received from an auto sparkie which didn't seem to make sense initially so I was asking for other people's opinions. I appreciate Derek's opinion on the subject just as I appreciate everyone else's. In the end, I will make the final decision as to how I set things up.
So, I'm not taking any sides here - I'm just looking to widest possible variety of (informed) opinions! Thanks.

Thanks Mark, as I have just asked Derek, do you know of any electronic device which will cause any of the 80A output not being used to run accessories, etc to go straight down to the second battery to charge it as quickly as possible?

There are step up inverters but with the size of battery you have and if it was fairly low, these would devices would actually take longer to charge your 100A/H battery than just running it off your alternator.

Hi Stephen

You can't force power into a battery. It will only absorb what it wants at any one time. The only thing you can do is buy an AGM as they are safe to use inside the car and try make sure you are getting alternator voltage at the battery. That way you will charge as fast as possible at the highest current.

You can only ever expect to charge the battery at 20 to 25 amps and this will rapidly decrease as the battery reaches full charge.

There are devices that will produce a constant 20A at 13.8V but the battery will still only accept what it needs.

QUOTE “You can only ever expect to charge the battery at 20 to 25 amps”

Based on what?

A standard 100A/H flooded wet cell battery with an SoC of 11 volts will easily except 30+ amps from an alternator producing current at 14.2 volts and many AGMs will easily except 40+ amps.

Just making a statement like that has no real substance unless you have the corroborating info to go with it.

In this specific case, Stephen has posted he has a 100A/H AGM battery but he has not posted what brand it is or what is the operating voltage of his alternator but even working on a generalised basis of a 100A/H battery and that the average voltage of most vehicles is 14.2 volts, your info falls some what short of reality.

You and your mate whinge and bitch when I correct your errors, why not do your math and get it right in the first and then NO ONE would need to correct you.

My AGM is a Fullriver HGL series and my alternator's regulated voltage is 13.7-14.8V. I had heard that AGM's can accept a higher charging current than wet cells.

Hi Stephen, unlike flooded wet cell batteries, where the specs for one is about the same for all, there are as many different specs for AGM batteries as there are as many brands.

So you should check the specs for your specific battery and the web address below will take you to the relevant page.

You should then be armed with enough info to be able to dmake your set up as you wish.

Cheers

http://www.fullriver.com/products/hgllist.asp

Hi Stephen, unlike flooded wet cell batteries, where the specs for one is about the same for all, there are as many different specs for AGM batteries as there are as many brands.

So you should check the specs for your specific battery and the web address below will take you to the relevant page.

You should then be armed with enough info to be able to dmake your set up as you wish.

Cheers

http://www.fullriver.com/products/hgllist.asp

The spec sheet says "Charging (Constant Voltage): Cycle: Initial Charging Current 20A or small [sounds like chinese translation error] 14.5V~14.9V (25C)". Is there any way to "force-feed" this battery to make it charge as fast as possible?

Actually it’s the other way around, you don’t want to charge that battery any high than 20 amps, according to the manufactures specs, but as long as you don’t discharge the battery too low, this should not be a problem.

Just let your alternator do it’s stuff, that’s the best for this type of battery and again, as long as you don't over discharge the battery in the first place.

Cheers.

Why do you say not to charge it higher than 20A? Most manufacturer's specs can be 'tweaked' a bit, can't this?

Stephen

1) Never allow the battery to drop down to 11v as suggested above. Yes it will accept a lot of current as stated by DS but you will have already shortened the battery life. It will accept the high current for only a very short time and then be back at the figures I already stated.

2) Cycle the battery down to 30% SOC as a minimum (Approx 11.8V depending on the type of battery)



3) Charge the battery at as close to 14.4 Volts as you can get at the rear of the car and it will charge at its maximum capacity. Again if at 30% SOC this will be 20 to 25 amps.

4) Yes you can tweak it but you will damage the battery. The only way this can be done is to increase the charge voltage to around 15V and it will charge faster but this is dangerous and will void the battery warranty.

Regards

Derek.

The problem here is that most AGM batteries, through different forms of limitation, like the 20 amp maximum charge rate in this case, are NOT as suited to RV use as standard flooded wet cells batteries are.

To your question, can you “tweak” the manufacturer’s specs, the short answer is yes BUT you then have to consider what is likely to happen if you do.

The most likely out come is that there will be no significant effect on the battery as long as you only “tweak “ the specs but then how far can you go and it is now larger than a “tweak”?

Because you are mounting the battery away from the engine bay, you will probably get away with not harming your battery if you just charge it off the alternator and don’t overly discharge it.

But if you start tempting fate then you are more than likely going to shorten the battery’s operating life span.

No one can give you a for certain answer because every user uses their batteries in a different way, so my advice is to try to keep your battery’s operations as close to what the manufacturer posted.

The choice is really up to you.

drivesafe posted:

QUOTE “You can only ever expect to charge the battery at 20 to 25 amps”

"Based on what?"

"In this specific case, Stephen has posted he has a 100A/H AGM battery but he has not posted what brand it is or what is the operating voltage of his alternator but even working on a generalised basis of a 100A/H battery and that the average voltage of most vehicles is 14.2 volts, your info falls some what short of reality."

"You and your mate whinge and bitch when I correct your errors, why not do your math and get it right in the first and then NO ONE would need to correct you."

And so... The C4 rule. Most AGM's will accept 25% of there amp hour capacity as their maximum initial charge rate.

Back to my original figures. 20 to 25 amps.

Use a Rotronics or BiSolator system and you are set.



Regards

Derek.

As already point out, no two AGM batteries are alike so saying “most AGMs’ mean absolutely nothing.

If you want a p1ssing competition fine with me but you had better learn up on the subject before you try to argue it.

drivesafe posted:


"The problem here is that most AGM batteries, through different forms of limitation, like the 20 amp maximum charge rate in this case, are NOT as suited to RV use as standard flooded wet cells batteries are."

Most ?

You can be that stupid,

or can you.

So, the Rotronics or BiSolator systems will help deliver a constant voltage for charging? (The specs recommend charging via a constant voltage rather than a constant current) Where would I install these and how much are they?

Although the bisolator is a FET device, it actually has no control over the charging voltage or current going to the battery, it’s just a glorified diode isolator.

DS + Derek , your arguing over this particular batterys charging capabillity is laughable , you both missed the the HGL , its not your average AGM deep cycle but the hybrid , throw whatever amps you want {within reason} and it will take the charge ,

Sorry to burst your bubble but it's specs are even worse then others. It has a C5 rate. The 100 a/h HGL AGM has a max charge rate of 20A.

Data sheet

Regards

Derek.

That’s pretty well on the money.

Yes Kev

You are quite right and if your power demands are more than 80A then you will start to discharge the battery.

Regards

Derek.

I was sort-of hoping to "force-feed" the battery to speed up it's charging, rather than just have it passively draw whatever current it feels like!

Thanks,

The bantering over the last few months seem to be filtering through into my head.
I don't fully understand electrical things but am trying to get my head around it so that it won't bite me in the ar$e at a later stage.

Cheers Kev

Hi Stephen, I’m not sure you fully understand about battery usage, not so much just the charging of but the full usage.

Let me run this VERY rough scenario by you and see if it fits your requirements.

Say you are going off on holidays and you leave home with a fully charged battery ( 95%+ SoC ) and you get to your first nights camp.

Over night you use say 50 A/H of your stored capacity taking it down to 45% SoC and then set off for the days drive.

If you drive for say no more than 3 hours, you will probably have replaced about 40ish A/H = 85% SoC.

You camp and use use 50 A/H taking your battery down to about 35% SoC and the next day, set off again for about 3 hours.

This time you will most likely replace 50 A/H but you battery will still only be at about 85% SoC.

It will now continue cycling like this day after day and you battery will probably never get over 85% SoC.

The reason for this is that you can replace the bulk of your charge in the first few hours but the last 10 or 15% of charge needed to fully charge your battery will take another few hours driving.

You don’t need to fully charge the battery every time you use it and you can easily live off the bulk charge while your away.

It only becomes crucial to have a fully charged battery once you are about to put the battery away, out of use, then the battery MUST be fully charge and some sort of maintenance routine established to look after the battery while it’s not in use.

Dose that help any.

Cheers

Stephen

Here is a charge graph from Absorbed Power. It is based on a 100 a/h AGM and charge rate of 25amps.

Refer to my SOC graph v/s voltage and you can work out a basic charge time needed. When you get back from your trip it is always best to bring the AGM back to full charge with a Smart Charger.



Regards

Derek.

So, drivesafe, the 3 hrs driving the first day only added 40% as the battery was only down to 45%SOC but the same amount of driving the second day adds more (50%) because the battery was drained lower (35%SOC)?

I usually camp at least 2 nights at each spot so I've bought 100W solar panels which I hope can help me never drain the AGM too low (I'd love to never drop it below 50% but we'll see how we go! - the 60l Waeco is the only thing that will be run off the AGM).

Thanks for the graphs Derek, that's just what I was looking for!

I should give a plug here for Energymatters (http://renewablestore.com.au/) - I paid for this second battery about 10pm last night online (company in Melbourne), and the battery arrived at my door at 1pm today! Can't complain about that for service!

Meant to say I'm in Brissie!

For the exact specs for your Fullriver brand of AGM batteries, down load the PDF from the link bellow.

Most battery manufacturers list info about their batteries but Fullriver info is amongst the best, but remember, both the chart above and the Fullriver info relate to constant voltage charging in a controlled environment.

So unfortunately Stephen, neither the chart above or the Fullriver info has very much to do with the way your battery is going to charge in your vehicle and you can’t really compere these charts with real world charging situations.


Anyway you will find the correct info for you battery here.

http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/HGLcharacteristics.pdf

Thanks wheeleybin

I use the graph to explain how mosfets when used in a split charge system like our BiSolator can charge at a much faster rate. The BiSolator is similar to the green line on the graph.

I too like the sterling regulator but is not a DIY type product and more suited to be fitted by a marine electrical tech.

Regards

Derek

Hi Wheeleybin

Sorry you must have misunderstood. To obtain the proper split charge system you need to remove the alternator wiring and fit new wiring between the alternator and isolator input.

This is where I said not an easy DIY for the inexperienced.

Regards

Derek.

Just trying to get an understanding of the split charge system... so it supplies different voltages to each battery, based on the charge level of that battery?

Is there any visual feedback on this system regarding the state of each battery?

Wondering what the benefits are... I can see some benefits if one battery is dead/dying, but if you don't know about it that doesn't really help. Otherwise, if both batteries are in a similar state, there should be no need for split charging?

Sorry derek but you have little understanding of Sterling

Any person with average intelligence can install a Sterling Battery to Battery charger in the manner that I have previously explained.

The unit itself is the split charger and on ignition start up it pauses for 2.5 minites to allow cranking recharge and then smartly analyses the SOC of the auxilary battery and sets a bulk charge time and then proceeds to smart charge the battery at the batteries proper charging voltage.
Every 20 minutes t pauses and checks the statis quo of the cranking battery and then recommences charging the auxiliary battery.
It can be set to 14.7V,14.4V and 14.2VBatteries and from bulk it will Absorb and float ensuring a full and efficient charge.

There is a remotecontrol you can fit that tells you with a digital readout what the unit is doing such as Volts in Volts out ,amps in and amps out and time for bulk charge.
Simply putting it Sterling has applied 4 Step 240V Smart charging to a vehicles alternator andit does exactly what your 240V Smart Charger does but while your car is travelling.

Hi wheeleybin

We are talking about different systems.

The regulator type below is not an easy DIY. It requires heavy modifications.



Even the easier way needs the alternator wire modified. See below.



Now what I think you are referring to is the battery-to-battery charger.

Have a look at these instructions.



Now for the BiSolator.



Note: This is the simple installation. A better more advanced way is to have the alternator only on stud A. Main battery on stud B1 and all aux batteries in B2.

Please don't start with the offensive remarks about what I know. I just think you and I were talking about different products from Sterling.

Regards

Derek.

Regards

Derek.

Hey, it's my thread! Can we all take a deep breath here? As I've said before, I welcome ALL opinions - and I can tolerate conflicting ones - people don't have to be right all the time.

Sooooo - how about each of your opinions on the "ideal" setup for me (consider price no barrier and I'll take it from there). It seems as if I need something which will give me constant voltage to the rear battery without damaging it. Or should I look at some PWM charging system?

Wheelybin - is 4 step charging OK for AGM's or is only 3 step needed?

Stephen
Agm ,s are intollerant to constant over voltage charging.

For example, I have read:
"Some VRLA AGM batteries, like Concorde, can be equalized under certain conditions, but carefully follow the battery manufacturer's recommended procedures or you will damage the battery." (http://www.rpc.com.au/products/batteries/car-deepcycle/carfaq9.htm#stages)

As I only have a cheaper Chinese AGM (Fullriver - which are still supposed to be pretty good but which don't mention equalisation), I'd rather not risk trying to equalise my AGM and end up stuffing it. I think I'll be happier with 3 step charging only.

Hi again Stephen, to my knowledge NO AGM type battery should be charged equalised.

This procedure should only be carried out on a flooded wet cell type battery.

Now let's call a spade a spade here Wheelybin - you can hardly say that you were having "an objective debate" about anything. It is not an objective debate when you personally attack the other party. These are your quite inflamatory words:

"That is where you are incorrect there is do it yourself gear.
What is more simpler tham connection of a Positive and Negative lead from the cranking battery to a Sterling unit and then from the Sterling unit to the auxiliary battery.
No marine tech needed unless your just lazy.
Sorry derek but you have little understanding of Sterling
Any person with average intelligence can install a Sterling Battery to Battery charger in the manner that I have previously explained."

I don't know Derek from a bar of soap and don't know whether I agree with his view but I cannot see any evidence of his "guilt complex", or anywhere where he has "pre accused" you.

Chill out dude!

Wheeleybin, I said:

"REGULATOR !"

"I too like the sterling regulator but is not a DIY type product and more suited to be fitted by a marine electrical tech."

Please look at the drawing again.



Look at wires 'a' 'b' 'c' 'd'

and then look at the wiring connected to a BiSolator type device 'e'

This is not DIY stuff sorry.

Please read the threads. 'STERLING REGULATOR' is not the same as 'STERLING BATTERY-TO-BATTERY CHARGER'

The original graph shows the 'REGULATOR' (Top line) and others below. I said the BiSolator is similar to the green line.

I 'NEVER' mentioned 'STERLING BATTERY-TO-BATTERY CHARGER'.

Please check. I apologize if you thought I referred to a 'STERLING BATTERY-TO-BATTERY CHARGER' but this was not my intention.

Regards

Derek.

Derek
You used a smart charging efficiency graph of Sterling which can also be extrapolated to all Sterling Smart Caharging models.

You also intimated Sterling "Split Chatge" was noy DIY which extrapolates to all models.

I described Sterling Split Cahrge in its simplest form to offset your remarks which appeared to portray your product as superior.

You took offence to being told you were incorrect and I can now understand why you appear to conflict with others on this forum.

No product will produce a voltage drfop WITHOUT A LOAD so please substantiate your claims re the Bisolator.

Please do not use a pun with other peoples maybe copywrite material to bolster your sales but Sterling may thank you for the exposure.

So the bottom line is IF YOU WANT EFFICIENT SMART SPLIT CHARGING do your homework as nothing does it better and simpler than Sterling Power Products.

Yes I agree Sterling is one of the best systems available.

It however can't be fitted under the bonnet and is suited to a clean remote installation. Boats and Motor homes would be the main customer base.

The thread relates to a Prado 90 series.

I do take offense to unnecessary personal attacks. I try to make things easy to understand hence pictures and graphs.

Page 5 of the instructions.

Thank you Derek I am pleased you have your head in the Photo Bucket or whatever bucket it is in and although its not a pretty picture it is good information you have posted that should be read as it applies to all electrical equipment not just Sterling equipment.

I take it you read it thoroughly and understood it.

Now all you have to do is stick your head into your bucket of knowledge and experience and answer my question.

BTW I have spoken to Charles Sterling and he asked me to thank you for the exposure and could you please post some more technical information on the qualities of Sterling Products.

Hi WB

Charles has the day off but I have sent him an email. (Copy below)

>> Dear Charles

Your secretary gave me your email address as you were out and could not take my call.

I have been studying your products with interest and would like more information on the internal switching method used and the pdf file of the mosfets used.

Please also supply pricing for 200 units at trade price. F.O.B. to Australia.

I would also like to know the voltage drop (if any and 10A, 20A, 30A etc.)

Please also confirm if you have already spoken today to Australia regarding these same products and values.

Regards

Derek Bester. <<


I forgot your original question and because you start a new reply each time I can't find it.

Regards

Derek.

I take my hat off to Charles Sterling as he even answers his email on days off.

I have just heard back and he has included info for me and a picture of the latest multi battery isolator. The one that I heard about and that started all the questions but I could not find the info on.

The name 'wheeleybin' or a phone call from Australia was not mentioned in his email however and no he did not thank me for exposure or offer more technical information. I have asked him for more detail on the drivers, code and mosfets used.



I am waiting for his detailed 0-Volt drop description as I have been asked this same question by critics of the BiSolator.

Regards

Derek.

I have asked Charles if this new unit can be mounted in the bonnet and Charles answered with a bit of humor.

>>----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
To: Derek Bester
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


you can mount them on a space ship if you want.

why are you not in bed tucked up with a kangaroo

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Bester [mailto:djbester@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 03 October 2007 04:22
To: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
Subject: Re: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


Dear Charles

Thank you, yes the new product looks like the one I have heard about.

I will have a look at the page and contact you again.

When will they be available and can they be mounted in the engine bay of a 4wd.

Regards

Derek.

Charles Sterling is a great guy and very helpful. We both import and manufacture similar products and even use the same factory for our generators.

He is currently in Taiwan with final work on the programable isolator. I will have pricing on these from him soon. Here is a bit of info and our latest emails.



>> not sure, at our factory in tiawan as we speak, we go to tiawan next week to confirm everything. arrive about jan-feb next year, not sure on price yet

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Bester [mailto:djbester@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 03 October 2007 05:59
To: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
Subject: Re: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


I am reading the file right now.

Great that it can be easily programmed.

When will they be available and any idea of dealer prices ? 120A and 180A


----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
To: Derek Bester
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


look at our new current limiting relays

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Bester [mailto:djbester@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 03 October 2007 05:51
To: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
Subject: Re: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


Great, Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
To: Derek Bester
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


the units have 8 mm-10 mm bolts for the connectors so you can get 2-300 amp cable on , the sizes should be on the internet

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Bester [mailto:djbester@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 03 October 2007 05:04
To: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)

Subject: Re: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles

Yes they are a good idea. Time will tell, I hope they are improved from your last batch.

What is the dimensions of the a-b and b-b units and what is the max cable size that can be used ?


----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
To: Derek Bester
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


i hope it works, its a great idea , and we have been at them for about 2 years , we are expecting the new sample soon

ref the a-b and b-b , we fit them in the foot well or under the seat
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Bester [mailto:djbester@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 03 October 2007 04:53
To: Charles Sterling (Sterling Power Products Ltd.)
Subject: Re: Enquiry from Australia - Att: Charles


Thanks for the heads up.

Kenneth has fitted reverse protection and overload protection to the new ones. There is also a 2 way switch to flick between volts and amps. I hope they are good. Our tests went well and sales are very good.

We are not going for the YK2000 but have requested a sample of the YK3000i Kenneth has informed us it has a new inverter as the old one was unreliable. We will test the sample due in next week.

I have been looking at the Alt-Battery and Battery to battery Charger but as my market is 4wd mounting the unit could be a problem. No space under the dash and the cooling fan needs air flow.

Regards

Derek. >>

I will keep you informed.