Electric Brakes-Caravan

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 00:09
ThreadID: 50203 Views:7233 Replies:8 FollowUps:25
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People, after inspecting my brakes on the van before our trip to kalbarri on subday i found that one of the linings had come astray hence the black dust on the wheel.

Now ive relined both sides,repacked wheel bearings,they were fine fitted new seals etc.

Adjusted them up so they had a very light contact when spun by hand,took it for a test drive up the highway,came back checked them and both sides were VERY hot.Now i did give them a hard time on the manual control to bed them in but how hot do they normally get.I do brake relines on cars most weeks and they dont seem to get this hot.

Have i by any chance got the settings on my controller too high and they are trying to slow the 4WD down as well.

Any feedbakc would be great ,like after a long run do your s get hot or if your driving around town do they heat up.

Matt
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Reply By: Member - neville G (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:34

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:34
Hi Matt,
I also service my wheels and brakes and I spoke to Alko recently about another matter and is the course of conversation mentioned brakes and their adjustment. The guy, who seemed very switched on, said that 13 clicks was the magic number, far more than I usually give them. After tightnenning up to the firm stage I usually back off around six or seven clicks until I get the condition that you speak of but he tells me that I should be giving them more. For what it is worth, let me know how it goes.
Cheers, Nev.
AnswerID: 264811

Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 07:32

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 07:32
Matt

Back the controller off a little !

I have basically done the same as you , but my problem was that the bloody brakes were locking up all the time, no matter what where ect,,and I could never get them right !
We have a camper trailer

What I did was,
1) Started off with everything square again , shoes, and liners,,

2) Adjusted both breaks to a point of a slight resistance, on a freehand roll.

3) Adjust my Techoncha Voyager controller, to the manual/DVD, and then back off the course knob a little to achieve a gentle rolling stop, and not one that I can feel, but enuf to take some of the pressure off the tow vehicle.

NOW my controller red/green, well you have to look hard at it to see if it has engaged, but it does.

I find this way better, the breaks do not pull up the vehicle hard, They really are only supposed to take care of whatever you are towing, and having the controller up too high only seems to make everything too sensitive to road, and weather conditions. The other side of it is that you will be continually adjusting them up all the time..

Cheers
Bucky


AnswerID: 264816

Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 08:53

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 08:53
Its BRAKES not breaks
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:44

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:44
We know what he means,its all good.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 10:53

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 10:53
Wizard1
Go and have a coffee brake will ya
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 11:30

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 11:30
When you say you adjusted them "to a point of a slight resistance", you should adjust them until they lock solid, this makes sure the brake shoes are centred, then back them off the required amount. With a motor vehicle this is usually to the point when they first rotate freely, but it appears with electric brakes that they have to be backed off much more, interestingly, I was told 12 clicks.
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Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 07:33

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 07:33
Matthew, I think Neville may be right.

The back of my 74 beetle (manually adjusted drums) I do as you did, adjust to just touching or just off touching and great.

Electric drums on my C/T, at least 4 clicks back off, different makes of electric brakes seem to recommend different numbers of clicks with Alko being 13.

My C/T (750kg) brakes can still lock the wheels at 40km/hr with manual override as recommended in the prodigy manual.

After a run and plenty of use, they do get hot, but not that hot I can't touch them. Like the oil dip stick in the car, hot to hold, but you can hold it.
AnswerID: 264817

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:40

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:40
I like to feel the hubs every time we stop, to take foto's, pit stop, ect ,,, on average every 1 1/2 hr - 2 hrs, or for fuel,, They are warm only !

A good sign I am told by others,,warm but not hot !


And To Wizzard1
I dunt kare uf I dun't spel ut riot !

Cheers Bucky
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Reply By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:42

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:42
Ok thanks for all the reply,ive brought it to work today to test it out,about 30Km drive and the wheels have light dust covering and they are warm.Bit stop start driving but not much really.

So everyone recommends that they be backed off after a light contact is felt.Is that because there is some drag on the magnet pushing the shoes onto the drum????.

ot sure how to measure the backoffs,these dont seem to have that distinctive click they just rest on the back of the lower retaining spring.

Matt
AnswerID: 264831

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:49

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:49
Matt
If we are on the road, I just use a LED headlamp, some magnifying glasses, and a screwdriver, sight the mechanism properly and wind each the same amount, generally a couople of clicks is good enuf.

Otherwise I go to a little more trouble, and use the lift wheel and rotate method. Its just a matter of trial and error, but neither takes much, just a couple of minutes. Listening is not much chop, as the magnets seem to make more noise scraping, than the shoes.

cheers Mate
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 12:04

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 12:04
Ok thanks,so you would definately reccomend backing them off several clicks.

Is this because they tend to drag a bit anyway due to the design of tyhe magnet dragging on the drum and pulling them on a bit naturally.

MAtt
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 17:17

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 17:17
Everybody didn't say back off after light contact is felt, I didn't ..... I told you the correct way to do it.
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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 17:30

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 17:30
As the magnets on your elec brake system touch the drum lightly there will be some heat build up and this is normal.
When adjusting brakes then the way you did it is reasonable IE. adjust to tight then back off until the wheel can be turned with reasonable ease.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 18:28

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 18:28
I must admit, I don't understand why they say to back off 12 or 13 clicks with electric brakes.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 20:13

Wednesday, Oct 03, 2007 at 20:13
Ok i took it to work, they got hot and covered the rims in black dust and smelt.

So i jacked it up the wheels turned freely,i then backed them of 6 Clicks and rotated them,no touching at all not even the magnet sounds.

Drove home ,still hot and covered rim in dust again.

IM VERY CONFUSED RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

Checked power to brake wire,nothing when pedal is released,,what about if the vamn doesnt sit exactly level when towing can that cause weight if magnet to act on shoes???

WTF IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 00:43

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 00:43
OK i have tried everything, backed the brakes off 13 or more clicks,disconnected my anderson plug for the fridge to van just in case it was backfeeding the brakes somehow.

Is it possible that the brake controller is leaking a small voltage while i am driving, its not showing up when stationary.??

I drove for about 40 minutes just before i called it a night and used brakes three times and when i got back home i could not put my hand on the rims.

???????????????????????????
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Follow Up By: Member - Gaz@Gove (NT) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 11:47

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 11:47
Bearings maybe ???
Mmmmmmmm, now where do we go next?

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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 12:40

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 12:40
Have you had them apart, and thoroughly cleaned, sounds like there is binding going on somewhere..
I had this problem, at one stage and when I started to dismantle them I found that the brakes were actually movong off the megnet arm riser, and allowing that 1/2 moon arm to go past the riser, thus binding brakes on ,,,

ThreadID: 44179

ThreadID: 40396

These were my problems and some answers

Hope this helps

Cheers Mate
Bucky

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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 14:34

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 14:34
Yeah ive had them apart to reline them because they were cooked from the same problem, but i thought it was just adjustment,so i backed them right off after fitting new linings, repacked bearings,left them slightly loose too.

How loose does the handbrake cable have to be,maybe it is pulling on the cable when it goes over a bump.????

Matt
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 14:38

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 14:38
hey Bucky did your brakes get hot or just seem to grab on application at times.?????
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 16:57

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 16:57
Be very careful with the incorrect pre-load on your wheel bearings.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:04

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:04
Bearing preload is set at fingertight on the nut,thats all.

matt
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FollowupID: 526867

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:16

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:16
You should really ... very slightly overtighten them, then back off until you can feel slight movement when you 'rock the wheel', then adjust until that movement has just gone, if need be go to the next tighter nut castellation for the split pin if it doesn't line up.
Very hard to say how to do it here, hope you understand.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:34

Thursday, Oct 04, 2007 at 17:34
Sorry, I meant to say back off to the next castellation in the adjusting nut for the split pin.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:31

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:31
Never got hot, but I live in Wonthaggi , ( country Vic ) Probably no need for them to get hot there, never on much
They just grabbed a lot, like almost every application weather loaded or full,, for all the reasons I put on those previous posts,,,

Cheers Mate
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:36

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:36
Shaker

Good call on the bearing tightness ,,, was about to mention that

Cheers MAte
Bucky
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FollowupID: 527025

Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:33

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:33
Hey Matt,,, been for a run without brakes not connected,, manual over-ride on,,,
Give that a go
Cheers Mate

Bucky
AnswerID: 265146

Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:09

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:09
Ok ran a few tests last night, disconnected everything and drove around, no heat whatsoever.

Plugged anderson plug in for caravan power,no heat.

Plugged trailer plug in drove around now it gets hot.

Checked voltage out of controller not moving, .06 volts,started vehicle and drove .10 volts with headlights on, .21 volts with high beam on.

What is going on here,when you activate the slider mechanism when stopped the relay clicks at .16 volts which is just activating thye brake lights i think.

Anyway should there be no power coming out of the conroller unless pedal is pressed.is .10 volts enough to act on magnets????.

When caravan is not on car there is less than system voltage coming out of the controller even when the power supply is coming straight from the battery terminal.

Any ideas, im at my whitsend with this and we leave early sunday morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could voltage be a problem,i have runa seperate earth drom the trailer plug right back to the battery and also locally to the chassis.

Matt
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:20

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:20
What do you mean with manual override on???????
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Saturday, Oct 06, 2007 at 05:34

Saturday, Oct 06, 2007 at 05:34
Manual over-ride,,, you know when you disconnect all the electrics, and engage the manual system,,you know the old bump setup
before electric brakes were invented, and not the hydraulic type either.

Hey I just thought of something,,, do you want the mini DVD, for the Voyager ? Because I can burn you a copy if you want

Cheers Mate
Bucky
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FollowupID: 527176

Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:39

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:39
What type of electric brake controller is it ?

Go for Techonca, Prodojey ( spelling ) or if you can't afford it get the Voyager ( same as mine ) !

Cheers Mate
Bucky
AnswerID: 265148

Follow Up By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:10

Friday, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:10
The controller is a Tekonsha Voyager.
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FollowupID: 527048

Reply By: Member - Matthew C (WA) - Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 17:54

Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 17:54
Ok thanks for your help people.We have been to kalbarri and back with no problems whatsoever with the brakes after i figured out that it was an earth problem on the brake wiring .

What i have done is run two seperate earth for each brake pack and also added a new earth lead from the chassis of the car to the body of the car because all the eathring is done through the chassis which is not actually positively earthed to the body being a 4WD.

Anyhow had a great time and all worked out well.

Matt
AnswerID: 266525

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